sticky question about glue!

HannaFate

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There are a lot of different glues out there, and which one you use will depend on what you are joining.

Corner Weld is good for wood moldings. Or, you can get some Elmer's wood glue from the hardware store.

If you are using plastic moldings, you might want to call your supplier and ask for their suggestion.

If you want a really, really strong join, and have the time, Gorilla Glue works on almost anything.

But, don't glue metal frames. It can make them difficult to fit the glass in.
party.gif
 

Jim Miller

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I use CornerWeld, but most white wood glues are stronger than the wood they bond.

If a frame miter fails, it probably is not the fault of the glue. Here are a few more-likely causes:

1. Poor fit of the mitered surfaces.

2. Foreign matter on the surfaces, such as solvent-based marker, or saw blade lubricant.

3. Inadequate set-up or drying time. If the miter is disturbed before it's dry, the glue bond is weakened.

4. Severe impact, sufficient to break the bond.

The keys to successful miters are careful preparation of the surfaces, careful assembly, and adequate drying time. I don't know of any shortcuts.
 

sandymc

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Thanks! If I am using wood moulding, should I leave it in the clamp.(I have a four cornered one?
And what is the proper or suggested time before I try to join it?
 

Baer Charlton

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Sandy, glues have four times:

Dry time: Time it takes for a coating applied about 2/1000" thick between wood component to dry.
(about 5-15minutes)

Set time: Time it takes for glue to "Set Up" 75% or Harden. (1-3 hours)

Cure time: Time when the chemical bonding has cured to a degree that it can be disturbed and not bother the bond quality. (3-8 hours)

Work time: Best length to leave a bond to cure in such a way that banging with a hammer or brad gun will not disturb or break the bond. (Overnight).

All things being subjective Glue it, V-nail it, hang it, come back tomorrow. Unless you're in a hurry. :D
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Framar

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I have always joined frames with wood glue (using Maxim currently) and brads. My understanding has always been that the glue holds the bond together while the fastening procedure takes place and the nails are sort of an insurance policy in case down the line the glue bond fails or the frame is jarred. The nails then prevent the frame from falling apart completely (and creating a hazard with falling glass or ruined artwork).

My procedure is this: Put glue on one corner, position rails together smoothly, set brads and putty. In this amount of time (unless it is a weird or warped moulding), I can pop it out of the one-corner vise and go on to the next pair. I join all the pairs first and then join up to make whole frames. Unless I am in a hurry, I rarely fit until several hours have past, mostly because of the way I work not because I feel the join will fail.

I have never had a frame come apart - and with these modern glues it nigh unto impossible to break a join! I might also let really hard woods set up longer due to the lousy glue absorption factor.
 

FramingFool

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Framar must be looking over my shoulder ... we do it the same way ... of course, even though our moulding saw is dead on, we precede the joining with a quick pass through the miter sander .... makes those faces like glass...
 

Terry Hart cpf

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I like corner weld for those frames that come apart too easily like tall thin profiles or liners where you can't use much. For most profiles I prefer the standard yellow carpenters type glue because, well, I know this never happens to the rest of you, but sometimes I have to take a frame back apart and it's a little easier with that type. There is also a thicker "no drip" carpenters glue that comes in handy at times.
 

froptop

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To Framar,
If you putty the interface between the two rails right after gluing, won't that affect the drying, trapping the water from the glue, preventing proper evaporation?
 

jvandy57

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Glue is what hold the joint together. Nailing with brads or V-nails is essentially the clamp. The clamp holds the joint together while the glue dries and cures. It is best to spread glue evenly on both sides of the joint which gives the glue the opportunity to bond with the surface of each side of the joint, when you put the two pieces together and clamp them then the glue will mix and bond with itself.

Norm Abrams and my shop teacher both have shown me how to make small pieces of wood into one big piece with glue and pipe clamps, and when it's dry good luck breaking it apart.

Don Berkman, MCPF just mentioned the other day that the glue is what makes the joint and you should only use 2 V-nails only on each corner, no more no less.

Just my humble advice, BTW I use United's MAXIMUM 7/14 after using yellow glue for years and love it, dries fast and very strong after 14 minutes and incredibly strong overnight.
 

GRYPHON 1

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Sandymc

We stock Maxim wood glue and we have used it for years. If you would like some sample bottles I would be happy to send them to you. Also if anyone else would like some samples of Maxim glue send me your info. and I will send you some. Maybe I can offer a special Grumble discount!
 

Sarah Winchester

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I'm fairly new to the framing business, but in this shop I've been using Maxim 1/15 to glue wood corners, holding them in a homemade 4 corner vise contraption. Let them set anywhere from 15 minutes to overnight, then v-nail them with a manual v-nailer. Am I doing it right, or wrong?
 

Jim Miller

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Originally posted by Sarah Winchester:
...Am I doing it right, or wrong?
The only way to know is to examine the quality and strength of the corners you join. If the miters fit tightly, and if the glue is allowed to dry thoroughly before you v-nail, then you will have good corners.

That said, I'd suggest you wait longer than 15 minutes before v-nailing. That stresses the glue joint, so you need to have the glue at nearly full strength when you do it. Otherwise, the glue joint may be weakened, even if it doesn't actually come apart in the process.
 

J Phipps TN

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I do my corners just the opposite. I put the glue on, then V-nail and the glue drys after the v-nail is in place. It seems to me that if you let the glue dry and then try to v-nail, you risk the chance of breaking the glue seal. This way the v-nail is in and the glue drys and nothing can break that seal.

Also if I had to wait for every corner to dry and then v-nail, it would take me 2 days to join one frame.

I just don't have that kind of time. Anybody else do it this way?

Jennifer
 

Bob Doyle

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Jennifer I do it the same way you do. And reading JVandy's post I think he is doing it that way also. The v-nail is the clamp that holds it all together while the glue cures.

I bought the v-nailer to speed things up and not have to use the corner vises for every frame. I agree that if I let the corners set in the vises before v-nailing it would take longer than the drill and brad method!

I do still use the corner vises on certain mouldings, no one method works for everything! Now I also use a pnuematic brad gun as well as the cordless drill and brads. I have to say that having access to air is a huge assett! The dryer on the air line definitely relieves my fear of "spitting" on a watercolor when I try to "blow off" that little bit of fluff! Just one squirt with the air gun and it is gone (along with all that loose pastel, oops!)
 

Allen Stover

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I essentially do what Framar does, without the brads. I'll start joing the frames within minutes of them arriving from the supplier, and can usually crank out 25 joined frames in a day. I let the glue set up while the frame is hanging, usually several days (not because I feel they need the cure time, but because I try to get them joined well before I need them), and I'll put them through the v-nailer just prior to fitting.

I've yet to have a joint pop apart when using this method.

I agree with Ron in that I'm wasting the potential time-savings in the v-nailer by using a vise first. My only defense is that I hate my v-nailer. I wanted to buy the one that Jim had for sale several months back, but couldn't make it happen.

Allen
 

Bob Doyle

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~~~~~~~~~~~~!FrankeAlert!~~~~~~~~~~

Framar, I have not heard (read) anyone use nigh correctly in ages!

I can go home happy now, my day has been made! Thank you.

BTW I am serious in that there are so many good words that die from misuse and non use. It does my heart good to see that native speakers of our language are keeping it alive!
 

Framar

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Thanks, Bob! I love the language - sometimes I play it fast and loose (driving editors crazy when I used to do a bit of writing) but I try to keep the old words alive. (can't think of any to add right now, though, LOL)
 
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