Plim-#Joint AS 5x5 v-nailer - any good?

nickbatz

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There's one for sale locally for about $450. What is it like to use? Are v-nails readily available?

I need to make about a dozen floater frames for an upcoming show. The alternatives: 1. have the framing shop that dry mounts my prints underpin the frames for me (I don't know what they'll charge), or 2. join them myself using other techniques - which I'm fully capable of doing, I'd just like to take some of the pressure off myself.

The joints don't have to be incredibly strong, because I also screw 3/8" ply into the frames (and glue the mounted prints onto the ply). But glue alone isn't enough.

TIA
 
Don't know a thing about that V-nailer, though I have a Pilm rebranded by Fletcher. Pilm is no longer well represented in North America as far as I know.

V-nails are not the best way to join floaters, as the V-nails tend to move toward the outside of the frame and can bust out the back.

Hand joining or joining with a Hoffmann would be the way to go, IMHO. Especially in light of the other reinforcements you are using.
 
Hand joining as in cutting box joints or something? I can do that, but I don't have the patience or time to cut... well, 48 of them!

Thanks, though - I'll look up Hoffmann.

Okay, I did. Dovetails? Oh no. I could do it - I've cut dovetail joints for furniture and have a jig - but absolutely no. It would be great, but it's just not going to happen this time!

Anyway, thanks.
 
Hand Join: Miter joints, vice or strap clamp, wire brads, filler and a bit of detailing.

The Hoffmann is relatively quick, faster than hand joining, but not as quick as v-nailing. It is a bit of an investment for a single job. We use one extensively since most of the frames we build are stem profiles.
This is not a traditional dovetail joint. It is a dovetail rout, called a "keyway" in the face of the miters, parallel to the outer side of the frame, starting in the foot and ending before reaching the face of the moulding. Proprietary dovetail keys are inserted, pulling the (glued) joints together.
 
It should be a good machine for your purposes, if it is in good condition and has all the major accessories, especially the "compensator bars" to accommodate different v-nail sizes. The Instruction Manual is attached here.

This is a link to the YouTube video demonstration for the Pilm 5x5 variations, which are pneumatic underpinners suitable for light-to-moderate framing production. The 5x5S (Super) has more bells & whistles, so skip past that section of the video. The 5x5A is shown near the end of the video, and I believe the 5x5AS is similar, except that has a "frontal presser" like the Super.

The Pilm 5x5AS is very similar to the Fletcher 5600, which was a Pilm machine. It is also functionally similar to the Fletcher/AMP U300 (previously VN2+1), but there are some differences.

V-nails are available through AIM Equipment Company (call RoAnn, 330-405-9421) and possibly other suppliers, in four sizes: 7 mm (AP-703000), 10 mm (AP-703010), 12 mm (AP-703020), and 15 mm (AP-703030). Most parts should be available, too.
 

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It should be a good machine for your purposes, if it is in good condition and has all the major accessories, especially the "compensator bars" to accommodate different v-nail sizes.

Jim, this is the seller's reply. I'm not sure what most of it means (because the translated manual is hard to understand without the machine in front of you):

"THERE IS 1/2 BOX OF 7MM NAILS (2000?). 2 COMPENSATOR BARS ...(1 gr.12-1 gr.10)."

It looks like there are supposed to be four of those bars. 7mm v-nails are about 3/8", which should be okay - as long as the accessories that come with it allow 7mm v-nails!
 
Looks like you have new questions to ask the seller
He said it's missing two of them + the plastic safety shield, but he has some kind of shims to use for larger v-nails.

Also, I didn't realize you needed to use a compressor with these things. I have one that probably still works, but it's a big PITA taking it out and I don't like using the noisy thing.

The framing shop that dry mounts my prints wants about $30 each to join the frames, which is too much (meaning too much money to be worth it to me, not that it's an unreasonable price).

Hand Join: Miter joints, vice or strap clamp, wire brads, filler and a bit of detailing.

Yeah, that's basically how I've been doing it, and i was hoping to make my life easier.

"Basically" = corner clamps, and (because they've been painted) countersunk screws that I covered with filler. I have an electric pin nailer, but unfortunately the think headless nails it shoots don't have enough hold even to keep the frames together while I move them to screw in the 3/8" play - and that's after the glue dries. Some of these frames will be 5' in one direction - it's not like they're tiny.

An electric brad nailer is one possibility. Hm. I wonder whether I know anyone who has one I can try...
 
Also, I didn't realize you needed to use a compressor with these things. I have one that probably still works, but it's a big PITA taking it out and I don't like using the noisy thing.
You can buy a fairly quiet, small-capacity compressor from Harbor Freight and maybe other retail tool suppliers. Examples:

These are quiet enough for many framing operations - you can barely hear it through an insulated all. After about 20 years of using industrial compressors (very noisy) I thought about buying a silent compressor, but didn't want to spend hundreds of dollars.
 
You can buy a fairly quiet, small-capacity compressor from Harbor Freight and maybe other retail tool suppliers. Examples:

Sorry, I missed this. Yeah, I have a compressor, actually a Harbor Freight one. I just hate dealing with it!

And my shop is the backyard and the driveway, although the noise isn't really an issue - which is funny coming from a guy who had his computers in the garage next to his office/studio because the noise of just one hard drive 25 years ago was literally giving me a headache. :)

But thanks. I ended up buying an electric brad nailer, and it's perfect. Simple glued butt joints, held with corner clamps and brad nails while it dries.

Meanwhile, this is my life for the next couple of weeks (show coming up 7/19). Those are 10' and 12' poplar boards that I cut, soon to be floater frames.

If you look closely you can see that the horizontal part of the L is about 1/8" deeper to make the frame part float. And I use the cut-out pieces for extra support from the rear (some of my pictures are as big as 5' in one dimension).

IMG_8197.jpeg
 
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