May 19 - Mark your calendars

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I remember environmentalists protesting mid 70s when the Alaskan pipeline was being built. But you don’t hear much about it anymore. One reason is the pipe has helped increase the wild animal population around it. Caribou, deer, bear, wolves, birds, insects, fish etc LOVE the pipe, because it’s warm.
I can certainly understand this when the wind chill can drop to –125 degrees.
 
Hi Don-I agree that we ought to have areas safe from development. But, this are is so expansive, so wide open, that I just can't believe there isn't room for everyone's needs.

We often go fishing near the Artic circle. Once you get North of 60, there ain't much there. It's flat as Lubbock, the tallest trees, if there any are about 15-20ft tall. Everything is a dull grey-green without an ounce of color. For 7-8 months of the year, it's covered with snow and ice. Of the places we go, you can't fly in much before right now and you better be out by Labor Day. It amazes me that anything can live there, at all.

But, it is world class fishing (I've caught several Lake Trouts over 40lbs) and I would hate to think this area wasn't available to Sportsmen annd others.

You mentioned your trip up there. It is beautiful in parts and it was open to you. Wouldn't you just hate to think that ou wouldn't be allowed to go there again?

There just has to be some balance.

One of my favorite trips was out of Juneau. We chartered a BeechCraft to fly over the Mendenhall Glacier. We flew at around 16,000ft and that means we were only over the mountaintops by 2-3000ft. I was the right seat guy and the pilot took us down into the Glacier. It was like our own up front and personal National Geographics Special. We were doing around 220 knots and it lasted almost an hour before we landed at White Horse.

The entire trip we never saw another single person, aircraft, building. Nature has a way of protecting itself and I would hate to think that this area should be off limits to you or I.

Of the millions and millions of acres available, we simply have to find a way to use them wisely so the animals of earth (people and other mammals) can share the bounty.

It would sadden me to think you could never motorcycle up there again and if there were no balance, I'm sure that neither of us could enjoy what we did.

We simply have to find a way to balance all of our needs
 
Bob you are very fortunate to have travelled so widely. But why do you think you will never be able to motorcycle in Alaska again if there is no oil development in the refuge? I honestly don't see the connection.

I can't believe that car and motorcycle manufacturers haven't twigged to changing energy realities. These new hybrid cars are one answer; I know there are others in the works.

The US is far ahead of Canada in this regard. I am green with envy for the great tax incentives many states and the feds offer on energy saving products.

In the grand scheme of things, the earth truly can't support the current lifestyles of the industrialized world ad infinitum. And certainly not if the third world wants to join in (they do!).

Energy wise, things need to change if we are all to survive in a comfortable manner. That's Darwin for you. I would rather put my tax dollars into change than into an expensive development that just postpones the inevitable and could well prevent our decendants from sharing your wonderful Arctic experience.

http://arctic.fws.gov/welcome.htm

Rebecca
 
I will be taking some time off, a little hiatus, from The G. Too many continue to make poitical remarks and I just can't to be able to let them slide.Not many seem to think this forum ought to be about framing and business. And I can't seem to let the misonformation go unchallenged. So this will be my last post for a while and it is directed to The Kyoto Accord comments that I said were flat out lies. In the extremely unlikely event that a comment might be made (see above posts on Kyoto by Kittyface), I thought for accuracy's sake that I post about three minutes of research.

I was wrong when I said (from memory) that the Senate voted it down in 1998 and that I thought I the vote was 95-0 or something like that. Well, I researched and I was wrong. It was 98-0. Which meant that not a single democrat voted for it. Now, remember that this was during the Clinton Administration.

The reasons were numerous, but the Senate overwhelmingly voted it down.

Now, here comes the good part and I swear, If I was making this up it couldn't be any funnier.

Guess who introduced/sponsored the bill to vote it down? Robert Byrd (D-WVa). For those that don't know Mr Byrd is largely regarded as the Dean of The Senate-a staunch Democrat. In addition to his perennial claim as the King of Pork (he is always rated one or two when the pork dollars are distributed) and is a former high ranking National leader of the Ku Klux Klan (I think he was a Grand Wizard, but don't quote me). He is a constant critic of the opposition, but he led the fight, quite successfully to quash the Kyoto Accord.

And it gets better

The base rate agreed upon by all parties (The US did sign on to the Accord, but it failed ratification, led by Mr Byrd) set the level of greenhouse gasses that were acceptable as 7% lower than the 1996 level. That level was deemed as acceptable and was the level in 1990.

Now, look at a calendar. George Bush (#40) was President at that time and that was that target level was deemed acceptable. The level deemed unacceptable was based on 1996 levels. That would be 4 years into the Clinton/Gore regime.

The main reason given was our objection that China, India, Brazil and Mexico all were given exemptions. Four of the largest population countries and they did not have to meet any standards whatsoever.

So, fast forward to now. Guess if the greenhouse gasses emissions are lower today than they were in Clinton regime? I think you ought to look it up, but you aren't going to like the answer.

For review:

The best years,as deemed acceptable, were in the Bush years. The worst years (by over 7% more) listed were during the Clinton/Gore years.

The Accord was voted down unanimously (so that must have included Sens. Kerry, Kennedy, Boxer, Fienstein, Schummer as well as every Republican.

Today, while not yet to standard is making progress under the current administration.

I must admit reading this stuff could not be more boring. But, since those casting the biggest stones are interested in accuracy,as we all are, I know they would want to get it right.

Here's a quick dollar bet that no one believes one word of it

Good-bye
 
Bob, where do you think we are going to get our reality check if you aren't here?

If I want info about politics, I'm NOT going to consider what a picture framer (I consider you to be a businessman) spouts out on the Grumble, it's not their area of expertise.

Those who want to talk politics need to find a forum specifically created for that prupose. I'd like to see the average picture framer hold their own on that forum.

We've already had 2 squabbles that put a damper on the G, lets get back to business, our business and our warped humor.
 
I'm genuinely baffled....what did I miss? I haven't been fully involved in the G this week but I can't see anything that looks contentious.

I do agree that threads that aren't framing related on some level should be in Warped. But, I don't recall anybody getting unruly. There is nothing wrong with healthy discussions and debates. Everybody should be allowed to air their opinion.

Katman made a really great statement in the Ronald Reagan thread....

Originally posted by katman:
but I'd also say we had a degree of civility and accommodation for opposing opinions in Washington that ended after Bush I in 1992 and probably will never be restored....
Click to expand...
That, if anything, is what I see is wrong, everybody is so polarized they simply don't want to accept others might have different opinions or belief systems.

I would never even attempt to enter in on a discussion like the one above, I'm just not informed enough. Just trying to make an attempt for all of us "Grumblebums" to get along.....
 
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