DOES YOUR SHOP OFFER A "POSTER SPECIAL"?

[Mike Labbe]

How much do you charge for your 24x36 "poster special"?
24x36 metal or wood, nonprotective/regular/clear glass, mounting or dm, backing, fitting, hanger
Price is before add-ons such as uv glazing, mats, etc


Anonymous Monthly Survey & Discussion for September 2009​

How does this work for you?
Do you promote your poster special or use it strictly as a "sale saver"?
Does it gain or lose potential sales?
Discussion always welcomed




RESULTS from previous TFG surveys: LINK TO RESULTS


This poll idea was brought to us by Kirstie of The Framer's Workshop​

Grumble surveys are purely for fun, and to stimulate healthy/friendly discussion. Since the results only represent a relatively small group of participants, use them with caution

 

[Al in Tampa]

24 x 36 - $65.95 We offer 12 different color profile 15 metal frames for the poster special. The framing includes vacuum mount, clear glass, frame and fitting. We offer it as a sale saver only. We price 3 other sizes accordingly, up to 32 x 40.

 

[Kirstie]

My prices and options are online at:
http://www.framersworkshop.com/Packages/

I keep to a minimum of mouldings by choice, and all of them are low in cost at OEM metal prices and below along with show specials.

Nevertheless, it is amazing how many different kinds of art people choose to frame in a "poster special." It is our fallback price, but many people are now aware of it and come in asking for it by name. We have far fewer estimates now than we had before we had a poster special.

Black woods are the most popular, from corporate to college students.

I have another question: Could you survive if all you were selling was poster specials? This question was brought up by Bob Carter a year or so ago when I believe he said that you should only institute a special like this if you would be happy to sell it all day, every day. I am happy to have the sales, but they are cutting in to our regular business big time and we would not do well if we only sold this product.

 

[HB]

So...your selling a drymount package with glass & no spacers? really?

 

[Jerry Ervin]

Yep

 

[Kirstie]

Yep. This is the cheap special.

However, we have an add on price for spacers and mats and we sell a lot of matting with this special and quite a bit of UV glass of plex add on.

 

[HB]

So if its a cheapie, why not skip the drymount - its already plastered against the glass - (and will probably stick to it anyway)

 

[HB]

I am assuming this is like a 50% off regular price for most stores???

 

[dougj]

We have an agricultural fair every year that does a fair poster.
It is picked from a contest that anyone can enter.
These are very popular and some are becoming collectible.
We offer a FAIR POSTER SPECIAL which is for fair posters only.
Black metal or black wood, reg clear glass and dry mount.
One price if you bring your own poster. $69
Another price if you buy the poster from us and have it framed here. $99
We run it for 1 month.

 

[PaulSF]

We offer a choice of 4 different wood* frames (black, walnut, mahogany, and dark brown), with drymount and clear glass. They can upgrade to better glass, or add in mats. If someone is on a really tight budget but still wants a nice presentation, I'll go to the poster special but put in a mat and better glass. In fact, I did that with a rush order last week -- two 20x30 photos, and we put in a single mat and Museum Glass. Came to about $300 each, was a really nice sale! And the customer was very happy. If we had gone with a more expensive frame, he wouldn't have been able to splurge on the glass.

I could not sell this all day, though. I simply don't have the foot traffic for it. If I had 5-10 customers a day, at least, it might make sense. But 5-10 customers a week is more like the volume I have, and sometimes not even that much (like this week, where I haven't had a new order yet, and with the holiday coming up, I probably won't take in anything at all unless it comes in today).

*I think I paid $0.62/foot for the black, and $0.50/foot for the other mouldings.

 

[DB]

Currently I offer the special in 5 prices (depending on size) up to 32 x 40, metal only. It is a sale saver. I only frame posters this way. If they have anything of value I do not offer it. I do not offer upgrades. Any variation puts it into the regular custom framing category. Otherwise, I spend too much time on design and that would erase any profit margin.

 

[Al in Tampa]

DB, we do the same, except it is four price points up to 32 x 40. We explain to the customer that it is not archival framing and if it's valuable (or possible future value) or they want longevity, it's not the way to go. We also look at the paper to determine if it could stick to the glass.

There are many items people want framed inexpensively that will not fit in a RM frame size and the poster special is one way of doing it.

I agree we do not want to become known for this type of work, and only offer it as a 'sale saver' only if the print fits the above description. There is a need for it in the area we are located, as it is a very mixed income area.

 

[PicturedFramer]

Basic Poster Frame Special

We offer either metal black matte or wood black $1.00 a foot or less for our specials, just clear glass and foamcore backing, fitting and a hanger. Depending on the size it's between $59 and $79 for either. We get lots of those in after local music gigs or events at the Seattle Center.
PF

 

[Kyle Henson]

We have a $99 special. Metal frame selection, single Crescent Select mat, clear glass, AF foam backing up to 32x40. We use it in our advertising but most always there is an add on of dry mounting, uv, or something.

 

[framerbob]

So...your selling a drymount package with glass & no spacers? really?

were talking about the cheapest framing possible, I dont think the customer is worried about spacers or any other archival practices, and has anyone ever seen a poster stick to the glass, photos maybe, but I've never seen a poster do that?

 

[DTWDSM]

Poster Special w/drymount reg glass and 15 oem metal frame $59.95, upgrade to a 1.25 wood in black, cherry, or espresso frame add $20.00. This is for a 24 x 36. We have different prices ranging from 39.95 to 129.95 for metal packages up to 40 x 60. Upgrades are extra but most of the items don't really "need" an upgrade but we sell them whenever possible, most popular upgrade..Z-Gel.

 

[Paul N]

Wood, 1- 2 inches wide, absolutely no metal - especially that cheapo thin black metal on a 36x48 ....

Everything is upgradable. And many do just that and it did save lots of sales.

 

[Jerry Ervin]

I am surprised that at this point, nearly 45% are voting that they don't offer a special.

I wonder what percentage of 'no sales' those folks have.

 

[surferbill]

Being in a resort area, we get a lot of people decorating rental condos and houses.
I probably do one poster special a day, and I can't imagine not offering one.

I have about 5 different sizes from 20x24 to 32x40. The basic package is drymount, clear glass, and #15 nielsen moulding, which I buy by the box.

Someone mentioned spacers or mats so the poster won't stick to the glass.
In 28 years of framing posters, I've never seen one stick to the glass, unless it got wet somehow.

 

[Paul N]

Jerry:

I think up to 2 - 2 1/2 years ago, Poster Special was not very common among Grumblers (at least that what it looked like).

Then FrameMakers (Dave) started a thread / idea about this, I started offering that too and many others after that.

 

[Kirstie]

*I think I paid $0.62/foot for the black, and $0.50/foot for the other mouldings.

Where are you finding wood--we use 1 1/8" --for .50? Delivered?
I am going to look into Larson again for OEM metal and black woods. Figuring in delivery there is not much difference. I have been using Designer OEM metal, Studio 26101 and Direct 433, along with show specials when they are a decent deal.

 

[wendy lang]

We have always offered a Poster Special. When I first started working at the store 20 years ago, it was priced at $39, up to 32"x40". It has climbed up to $69 since then.

We offer it in all of the Nielsen 15 anodized and frosted metals, plus the colorwaves. If any of them are available as 5 profiles, I order them appropriately, unless the customer is matching a previous order.

We also NEVER advertised the Poster Special, but I started to last year, when the economy tanked. I figured I'd get them in the door one way or another...our last, final round of Poster Special advertising has just gone out.

We won't even mention it now, unless someone baulks at the price. And, spacers for posters? Ain't happenin'!

Wendy
The Art Corner
Salem, MA

 

[JWB9999999]

I am surprised that at this point, nearly 45% are voting that they don't offer a special.

I wonder what percentage of 'no sales' those folks have.

It happens. I had a lady with 2 posters walk out yesterday. She didn't want to pay $106 per poster, which is actually what some people on here say they charge for a poster special. I'd like to close a sale with every person that walks through the door with a poster. But I also want to be rewarded for my time and effort and I need to pay for the materials I use.

Being the only store that stocks moulding and that stocks ready mades for several counties around, and being the least expensive frame shop around, I don't feel the need to out-cheap myself by offering a poster special. If they can't find a price that they like in my store, frankly, they aren't going to get it framed anywhere because they won't be able to find it for less.

 

[JWB9999999]

Where are you finding wood--we use 1 1/8" --for .50? Delivered?

I can't answer your question to him directly, but I routinely get mouldings for .25 $/ft and .50 $/ft. Visit the warehouses of your local moulding distributors and check out their discontinued mouldings. I do this at least a couple of times a year myself.

 

[Kirstie]

I can't answer your question to him directly, but I routinely get mouldings for .25 $/ft and .50 $/ft. Visit the warehouses of your local moulding distributors and check out their discontinued mouldings. I do this at least a couple of times a year myself.

I can get those as well, but we usually only buy things like that for the value line, and usually at shows. I like to keep the poster special moulding consistent--two black woods, three OEM metals (Nielsen is way to expensive), a silver and a gold wood --and always have the same thing to offer for that price.

We also look at the quality of the wood, although finding a black wood at the right price that noes not crumble in the saw, chopper, or underpinner is a challenge. Touch up on these frames takes way too long.

 

[Kirstie]

In 28 years of framing posters, I've never seen one stick to the glass, unless it got wet somehow.

Neither have I, but I do see fading. Thus the UV upgrade option. When a poster or print is more valuable we add a mat or use acrylic if the customer agrees. Heck, I can frame a family heirloom photo in a black wood frame, mat, UV, backing upgrade, and have a preservation package at a great bargain for the customer. However, as I said before, I don't want to sell this all day every day. Finances aside, it is so boring.

 

[Janis]

I'm a "no poster special" responder. My cheap customers who want cheap poster frames won't pay the $50 to $75 I would have to charge to make a bit of a profit; they'll just tack them to a wall. The other part of my customer base will pay the custom framing price. And I do get plenty of posters in to frame.

 

[surferbill]

I'm still in a bit of a state of shock at the large percentage of framers who don't offer a poster special.
It's so easy to buy the poster special moulding by the box at a huge discount, and make a nice profit from it.

I wish I could get full retail for all the posters that come through here, but my customers are thrifty, so offering a poster special often makes a sale out of a tire kicker.
BTW, we probably did at least 500 poster specials last year.

 

[Paul N]

Where are you finding wood--we use 1 1/8" --for .50? Delivered?

I won't answer for PaulSF either, but Decor and Omega come to mind, at least around here.

Sometimes 2-3 frames pay for the whole box.

 

[DTWDSM]

I'm still in a bit of a state of shock at the large percentage of framers who don't offer a poster special.
It's so easy to buy the poster special moulding by the box at a huge discount, and make a nice profit from it.

I wish I could get full retail for all the posters that come through here, but my customers are thrifty, so offering a poster special often makes a sale out of a tire kicker.
BTW, we probably did at least 500 poster specials last year.

I agree, we have had a "poster special for almost 20 years and we do promote it, and the same day service that we can provide with it. If you promote it you can make some nice cash off of it. This year, which has not been a stellar one, we have sold over 2900 ft of the wood and over 3200 ft of the metal.

And before anyone starts, I know, I know, I am in a mall so i am different, yada, yada, the point is that there is a lot of business to be had in a "Poster Special" type package yet people don't offer something because of many reasons including they don't like to work with metal, I am a high end framer, and I will loose a sale to the cheap package.

It's time to provide all things to your customers, they are getting it done somewhere else if you are not offering it. Do you really want your competition to have an opportunity to win over your customers???

 

[Jerry Ervin]

It's time to provide all things to your customers, they are getting it done somewhere else if you are not offering it. Do you really want your competition to have an opportunity to win over your customers???

Those are some powerful words.

I agree whole heartily.

 

[Kirstie]

It's time to provide all things to your customers, they are getting it done somewhere else if you are not offering it. Do you really want your competition to have an opportunity to win over your customers???

Well said Tim.

I am not in a mall, but am under a city owned parking garage on the street. I have just one shop, and in this, a very slow year for us, I am still buying about a box each of black wood per month in two sizes, along with an equal amount of OEM metal. I don't have that turnaround on any other moulding, not even close.

I am floored at what I see in the survey results.

 

[drandall]

Just my opinion, but I believe competing on price a good way to go out of business. These days it's very difficult to stay the course I know. But workng hard on low margin doesn't make sense. Some folks just are not custom frame clients and may never be.

Who buys custom framing? I seem to recall it's something less than 10% of the population. Of that 10% the Big Boxes are taking almost half leaving 5% to the small shops. Frightening! This industry is in a very difficult time even without the economic problem. I can never compete with Chinese ready made frame prices from the Big Boxes. I can never buy the volume required to compete (and make a realistic margin) in that price based market and honestly don't target low end work.

I do everything the Big Box does not.

All of that said I debate internally offering lower prices in the short term to weather this market but again how long can that go on? The economy will not bounce back quickly in my opinion. What a mess!

How's that for GUMBLING?

 

[Jerry Ervin]

I remember my dad used to always say "Can't never could".

Think about it...

 

[evartpat]

The numbers might be mis-leading. We offer our "House Moulding" at a very competitive discounted price.

This is moulding we buy by the box, often on special from the suppliers or discontinued at a really good price. However, we do not offer a "poster special" per se, as it was stated in this poll. We offer these discounted mouldings on any size.

So...I answered no to the poll, but what we do isn't far off from the "poster special".

 

[DTWDSM]

Just my opinion, but I believe competing on price a good way to go out of business. These days it's very difficult to stay the course I know. But workng hard on low margin doesn't make sense. Some folks just are not custom frame clients and may never be.

Who buys custom framing? I seem to recall it's something less than 10% of the population. Of that 10% the Big Boxes are taking almost half leaving 5% to the small shops. Frightening! This industry is in a very difficult time even without the economic problem. I can never compete with Chinese ready made frame prices from the Big Boxes. I can never buy the volume required to compete (and make a realistic margin) in that price based market and honestly don't target low end work.

I do everything the Big Box does not.

All of that said I debate internally offering lower prices in the short term to weather this market but again how long can that go on? The economy will not bounce back quickly in my opinion. What a mess!

How's that for GUMBLING?

You are correct in what you say but in order to have a real successful "Poster Special" you need to buy well so you can sell well. 15-20% COG is not going to
put anyone out of business and it can be done by any savy buyer.

The main thing that we all need to remember is that it really does not matter what your price is if nobody knows about your special. You ned to get people in the door and then sell them after that. Retailing is not a "Field of Dreams" type of business, you know, "Build it and they will come". The success of a "poster package" depends on much more than the price that you slap on it.

Don't do a "poster package" on a temporary basis, find a fair price that both you and your customer can live with and run it all of the time, make it exempt from coupons and/or sales, and make sure it is competitive with the big boxes when comparing apples to apples, make it something you can have a quick turn time on (same or 1-2 days) and then tell the world.

Better than sitting on a chair watching the world drive by on their way to Michaels

 

[DTWDSM]

I do everything the Big Box does not.

Remember according to michaels Annual report a few years ago, their average store's framing dept had sales of over $750,000.

I don't care who you are, if you Like them or not, agree with their framing tecniques and marketing or not, you have to admit they are doing something right and much better than the independant shop since the independant shop at the same time averaged around $110,000.

Just Sayin'

 

[PaulSF]

Kirstie, I got these 3 wood mouldings on a special from Valley Moulding a few months ago. They are from International. I wouldn't worry so much about changing the mouldings in your packages. These are special value packages, and you can offer it because you find good deals on materials. If those deals change, then your package should change too. There are a lot of great deals out there in this climate -- maybe the $0.65/foot moulding will be $0.55/foot if you buy 2 boxes instead of one. And maybe you can get that $0.55/foot for buying 2 boxes worth, but they will let you mix and match. They want to turn their inventory too.

I used to worry that selling poster packages would undercut my higher-end custom framing sales, but I don't worry about it any more. It's really two different segments, and often with the same customer. For example, today a repeat came in with a poster to get framed for his professional office. He just wanted it cheap, but he wanted it to look nice. We used one of my poster special frames, and it cost him $65. I could have shown him more expensive frames, but its not prized enough for him to pay $150 or $250 or $750. It's just a sign for his office. He also bought two readymades for $49 each. In the past, he's paid much more than than to get diplomas framed, and he has referred several quite valuable customers to me as well. He would probably continue to bring me the $250 diploma jobs, but why on earth should I send him to Michaels for the $65 poster job? What if, while he's at Michaels, he decides to give them a try on the higher end stuff? NOT ON MY WATCH! I don't have the volume to support myself on this kind of stuff, but each individual job is both profitable and easy.

 

[FramerDave]

I do everything the Big Box does not.

Everything except offer an option for the value-minded customer. Why willingly give away any business you don't have to?

 

[Paul N]

Sometimes the best and usually free spending customer (and lately more than often), just wants to frame something fast and cheap.

Why send them anywhere else?? It's another way of keeping the good customer close and happy.

 

[GhostFramer]

So...your selling a drymount package with glass & no spacers? really?

Dont be a framing snob, most customers framing a simple poster are not looking for conservation values but are more concerned with price since it it most likely not a long term art solution. You dont have to have spacers just because it is drymounted.

 

[joe]

So my question to those who offer poster specials is this; what is your turnaround time for assembling the package? If you have the length in stock how much faster can specials be produced as opposed to custom orders? Also do most customers stick to the basic, lets say OEM metals, or do customers upgrade often.

Sorry for all the questions but I might be able to sell some of these to the students at our university if i structure it right.

thanks

 

[Kirstie]

Dont be a framing snob, most customers framing a simple poster are not looking for conservation values but are more concerned with price since it it most likely not a long term art solution. You dont have to have spacers just because it is drymounted.

I don't think HB was being a snob at all. HB is looking at preservation and asking a question.

I think that obviously half the framers who answered the poll feel that they can't compete on price and don't want to devalue thier services and wreck thier profits by introducing lower priced packages.

However, I have found that with these specials we are usually less than AB and M's. Keeping my customers with me is of prime importance. I want to be the go-to framer for all thier framing needs, the one they think of first.

Marking up the moulding sufficiently to be profitable on a special is not the problem, it is the deep discounting of the rest of the package. This is what you have to live with on a permanent basis if you introduce such a package. You also have to decide if you are going to limit the special to posters. We will framing anything using the special but we keep the selections somewhat limited.

With regard to preservation, we can still offer good quality work by adding things like spacer, mats, backing, etc. We also substitute plex for glass on large posters getting the special--with an up charge. Read Jim Miller's recent article about acrylic against art. Not necessarily a bad thing, especially for a poster.

 

[Kirstie]

So my question to those who offer poster specials is this; what is your turnaround time for assembling the package? If you have the length in stock how much faster can specials be produced as opposed to custom orders? Also do most customers stick to the basic, lets say OEM metals, or do customers upgrade often.

Sorry for all the questions but I might be able to sell some of these to the students at our university if i structure it right.

thanks

Most upgrade them.

Most go for black wood.

Same day turnaround with DI Y or if we have the time we will fit same day, like any of our other in stock mouldings
.
Regular custom turnaround if the work is custom. No real difference in time for these jobs as opposed to the more simple normally priced jobs, but we always leave a few slots for rush work.

Students always go for the specials if you get the sale, but they find even those expensive.

 

[RParrish]

I just lifted this from another thread about the largest frame shop and here is their poster special...

http://www.artistsframeservice.com/index.html

 

[PaulSF]

And they are competitive with those prices? Mine starts at $49.99 for up to 16x20, and maxes out at $84.99 for up to 32x40.

 

[RParrish]

And they are competitive with those prices? Mine starts at $49.99 for up to 16x20, and maxes out at $84.99 for up to 32x40.

Maybe not but for every order they do they are making almost twice as much as you.

 

[Jerry Ervin]

WOW!

My 11 x 14 start is $19.95

And the 32 x 40 tops out at $89.95

Maybe they are offering wood on those prices.

I'll zip over there and see.

 

[HB]

Dont be a framing snob, most customers framing a simple poster are not looking for conservation values but are more concerned with price since it it most likely not a long term art solution. You dont have to have spacers just because it is drymounted.

Ignoring the first part of your response, GhostFramer, I would agree with everything you said, but...

please consider the following:

...most customers ...

I agree, but MOST doesn't mean everyone. Its the others that may bite you later.

...customers framing a simple poster ...

I agree, but I'll bet YOU are framing it, that means YOU are liable.

...are not looking for conservation values...

I agree, but just because they aren't looking for the professional way, doesn't mean you shouldn't be doing it the professional way - & besides, many change their mind after its damaged.

...conservation values...

I agree, but I am not talking about conservation, I am talking about quality work done professionally!

...more concerned with price...

I agree, but more doesn't mean only!

...since it it most likely not a long term art solution...

I agree, but again, MOST LIKELY isn't very definite! Its funny that soon as something we framed gets damaged, its value suddenly skyrocketed...actually its not that funny.

... You dont have to have spacers just because it is drymounted...

I agree, but when you have glass (not acrylic) pressed up against it, its truly not done professionally, and the art is likely to be damaged by your methods.

...just because it is drymounted...

My original question that you quoted, addressed the issue of no spacers, since in my mind, most framers would suggest drymounting simply to make it flat, which it should be, if it is pressed against the glass with a decent backboard. If a customer wants cheap, why not just skip the drymounting?

Please don't get me wrong, I am not advocating conservation on everything. But I do believe as a professional framer, my service should be such that I offer a quality job, using every method which prevents likely damage, especially when the cost is not substantial (such as a spacer).

If someone is looking for a really cheap frame for a poster they don't care gets damaged in a few years, I will sell them a poster frame with glass & no spacer, but I'll certainly have them take it home to install the poster, and maybe I'll even have a sticker on the back warning that we recommend professional framing to preserve items of value.

I can imagine what my autobody painter would say if I tell him to use regular house paint while painting my car - oh, and no sanding - I want it cheap!

 

[Jerry Ervin]

Yep

Wood mouldings

Looking to “just frame a poster” as inexpensively as possible while still getting a quality job? This package includes a quality black, walnut, cherry, or mahogany wood frame, glass, mounting, and foam core backing. One week turnaround. Ready to hang.