1,000 checks for $30

JRB:
I think you, like most framers, misunderstand how the FACTS concept works.

In a lawsuit, FACTS standards favor the framer who follows "generally accepted framing practices". If there were no standards, then legal defense would be a he-said-she-said argument, which usually favors the consumer in court.

If the framer didn't follow the gafp's, then the plaintiff may have a good case, and the framer may deserve to lose the lawsuit.

If the framer can demonstrate that gafp's are normally followed in the shop, the burden of proof is on the plaintiff. And if the FACTS concept was followed, the framer would have documentation to show what framing alternatives were discussed in the frame design process, and either accepted or declined by the customer. That's a case the framer can win.

But in reality, most framers go belly up before a verdict is reached. The cost of defending a lawsuit is enough to bankrupt most small shops.

Sooooo, the greatest benefit of FACTS is in the design process, where the framer and custoomer communicate. The FACTS concept helps that communication, and promotes understanding. And with that comes more customer acceptance of preservation features of value to the project at hand. Done right, the chances of a lawsuit are greatly diminished, and THAT's good news.
 
Originally posted by Bob Carter:
My check for $100 is on the way and challenge all the independent shop owners to match my offer.............................This industry is only as good as we make it.
Nona, I applaud your passion to keep a good cause alive!

FACTS is a good concept and needs to be kept alive. It DOES BELONG under the umbrella of our PPFA organization. It should function as an independent element testing and setting standards, but it needs a "parent" organization to assure it of a future!

Framers are the ones who should support FACTS. It's for framers and they will derive benefit from it. It does not help manufacturers. They will help support it if the framers will stand up and be counted, but if they won't, no one will support it.
You're correct Nona, but similar to it's initial start many years ago, it was the manufacturers who actually supported it more than individual framers..............I recall a few tables at those dinners, where we saw $$$ and key support: Larson-Juhl, Fletcher-Terry, Crescent, Bainbridge, Tru-Vue and Frame-Tek. Today, it requires a budget, planning and an ongoing means of framer support. Without that, then this "donation support" will become old, and will repeat itself every year or two, and will become tiresome, and many will loose this passion and interest that you're demonstrating.

The Fine Art Trade Guild has established industry guidelines, with input and support from manufacturers. Although these may not match our desired standards, they will survive, because they were created by the FATG.

Facts deserves a future and that should include a plan of survival. Let's assure that we not only get your 1,000 checks today.......Let's get the industry to shape it into the PPFA organization, so that we have FACTS tomoorrow.

John
(Canberra, Australia
)
 
Being an electrician by trade and a framer by inheritance, the things I have understood from FACTS seems alot like the NEC is to electricians.

Not everyone that does the work abides by the guidlines and beleive me, most of them are very confusing, but it does give you a very solid base to start from and if you follow them they will usualy keep you out of trouble.

I want to do the best job possible to not only please my customers at the time of purchase, but I want whatever it is I do to last as many generations as possible...

I will take all the help I can get when it comes to making decisions on how to do a job or what materials to use. That's why I spend as much time
as I do reading on this site..

Keep all the info coming and I will keep absorbing..
 
I don't know how Nona does it. 48 hours after this thread started, I'm exhausted and dispirited. I would not have imagined this topic would generate any controversy whatsoever.

So far, I've heard, "I never heard of it, so it must not be important." "I've heard of it, but I don't need it." And "Maybe we need it, but the PPFA should do it, not this upstart FACTS group."

I never heard of it either until a few months ago when I pulled my head out of the sand or someplace equally dark. Better late than never.

I have nothing to say to those that don't want it or don't need it. I know at least one frameshop that, as a matter of policy and economics, stocks absolutely nothing but paper mats. They do a large volume, good numbers and apologize to no one. They've told me that I am the "A" framer and they are the "B" framers. Whew!

The PPFA, as I've mentioned, was well-represented at the meeting last Sunday, but I heard nothing to indicate that this organization (which recently became MY organization once again) is interested in taking FACTS under its umbrella or that this is even possible under IRS regulations for the various forms of non-profit entities.

John Ranes is right. FACTS will need an annual budget. It will need a paid staff and offices. A one-time "gift" of $30 from 1,000 people is not going to do it. FACTS will need ungoing support from framers and from manufacturers. It has to start somewhere. I think I can add 3 cents to each framing order I write and I can do that next year and every year until I retire, which could be a while if the market continues its current trend.

I'm sorry, Paul M. and others. I can't personally address every question and concern you have, though I thought I could. You can go to the FACTS website and read, just like I did. It's not easy reading, but it makes sense. After that, I guess it's a leap-of-faith. It's a pretty small leap, though.
 
Paul-I'm VP of New Jersey's PPFA-I don't believe we've ever met. I'd like to personally invite you to our next meeting--seems like you're quite passionate about what PPFA should be doing--we can always use another member's input. NJ's own Mark Butwinski of M&M Distributors is a national board member and regularly attends our board meetings which are open to the entire membership. Visit our website www.njppfa.com to see what our chapter has planned. Look forward to meeting you.

Nona-I'm looking forward to seeing a photo of you
holding those 1000 checks in Atlanta! Make sure someone records the moment--I see a cover photo for Decor or Photo Marketing!
PS-The check is in the mail.
 
OK, y'all have got my interest. How can I go about getting a current hard copy of FACTs? How much does it cost? Do hard copies even exist?

John
 
This will get long, and I’m sorry, but some things do need to be addressed.

Don Pierce managed to create FACTS with the help of many framers, distributors, manufacturers and even paper mills. A lot of people did FACTS, not just Don Pierce. He was the one who spearheaded it and he managed to get the document done without selling out to anyone, staying as neutral as possible and it is a very good document. JB, it is not the document you describe at all. I like it because it is flexible. It was written for framers, not conservators. Every time I read something in the past about preservation it was from a conservator. The art I frame is not going to end up in a museum and it’s controlled environment. It goes into homes in smog filled cities, no climate or humidity control. I felt the conservators were unrealistic about my customers and their needs. Yes, I want to preserve art, but I am also in business and I must please my customers. With the FACTS Guidelines, it says the hinge must be non invasive. It doesn’t say exactly how I am to hinge, it just must be non invasive. There are many ways to attach a work of paper art to a backboard and many more are thought acceptable now than used to be. (That is where education comes in because pressure sensitive tape is still not OK). That’s just one point.

In the past, a neighbor competitor of mine advertised himself as an “expert in conservation framing”. Someone brought a piece into my shop they had just picked up from this framer and wanted to know why it was so rippled across the surface. I took it apart, in front of the customer of course, only to find the framer had put it right against the raw edge of the wooden frame leaving no room for expansion or contraction. He had cut a triangle of 1 ply rag board and taped over the corners of the print with a strip of masking tape. An “expert” did that. With FACTS, yes, that framer is leaving himself wide open for a lawsuit BUT if he was framing to the standards of the day; he would have nothing to worry about. If there are no standards of the day, anything goes. It cost me much more to do the same job he did because I did it right while he cut corners. I couldn’t compete.

A funny side story. Once I was doing a presentation to a local art support group about preservation when one of the little ladies came up and told me this guy was her framer and she really liked him but she didn’t think he knew much about preservation of artwork and would I go talk to him? Can you imagine me knocking on his door offering to help? I just laughed and told her I didn’t think so. She ended up having me do her framing.

Don admitted in Chicago that he was lousy at raising money and it had become the situation John Ranes described, tiresome. The funds had dried up. Many reasons. Don is also not a great administrator nor promoter, he got tired and discouraged. With enough financial support, Don will get help. FACTS is too valuable to the industry to let it fade away. There is a lot to do to make it all work, but it is not just Don who will do it. Many people will help if they are convinced it is of interest to framers.

PPFA is not going to do FACTS. In Chicago they had no proposal or plan of action. FACTS doesn’t want the PPFA to take it over. It is important that FACTS stay independent and it is not a trade association. When I read the UK document, I find it to be a compromised document with statements that are confusing. For example, “A cotton museum board can be used as a conservation board but a conservation board cannot be used as a cotton museum board.” There is no scientific basis for that statement. Cotton or purified wood pulp is interchangeable in use in matboard. Alpha cellulose pulp is alpha cellulose pulp, period. FACTS must be independent. It’s not perfect, but it is a sound document. Matboard either meets the FACTS PMMB-2000 and is suitable for preservation framing or it is not. The PPFA can use the FACTS information for educational purposes, just as anyone else in the industry can.

Every framer needs FACTS whether they have heard of it or not. I do want to take to Atlanta 1,000 checks from framers. If we want FACTS and put our money up for it to show we want it, we will have it. If we don’t we won’t, it will be gone. It is honestly as simple as that.

There are around 4,000 framers who have felt the need to earn a CPF. WHY? Some people say to get three letters behind their name, but I disagree. I think it’s to test themselves against their peers. Do I know my profession? I think it’s to learn, “the right way”. I think it’s to show they care about what they do. It sets them apart. It costs a significant amount of money to earn it especially if they buy all the recommended reading. It takes time, money and effort. Just for three letters? No, it’s because they care.

There are framers who make millions in this profession, but the vast majority of us do not, yet we are content with our place in life and our businesses. If a person wants to make lots of money, it just takes a good business sense to do it. I care about money, sure, but I care also about craft, and I mean that in the hand worked sense, I care about my customers, I care about art. Jay Goltz has a big sign in his shop which says something like, I don’t want you satisfied I want you thrilled. That says it. I’m never going to make a million. If I was I would be framing and I wouldn’t be here trying to get you to see that this is a last stand. Even the Michael’s and the Aaron Brothers and Hobby Lobbies need FACTS. Every element of this industry needs a solid basis and FACTS is the basis for framing. It turns chaos into order.

If you haven’t made out your check, please do so. Send it now. Call every framer you know and ask them to do the same. There is not a lot of time before Sept 20th.

Check, made out to FACTS
Nona Powers, CPF, GCF
P. O. Box 600025
San Diego, CA 92160-0025

I will hold the checks until I get 1,000. If we fail and I don’t get that many, they will be sent back or shredded.

Read the FACTS Guidelines at www.artfacts.org
 
Originally posted by JRB:
OK, y'all have got my interest. How can I go about getting a current hard copy of FACTs? How much does it cost? Do hard copies even exist?

John
John,
You can make your own hard copies of all the FACTS from the website. They are available in PDFs, so as long as your printer is doing a good job they print out fantastic. Just go to the FACTS Web Site and click on Standards. You can also save those PDFs on your hard drive for future reference (Right-click the link and select "Save target as...")
 
I would strongly disagree with John Ranes that the FACTS organization should be an umbrella group of the PPFA. That would be the kiss of death for it. An organization setting standards cannot be organized, run and managed by the people who use the standards. Input from those in the industry is needed to set and update the standards as needed, but control of the organization must be independent.

There are many examples of standards organizations such as ISO, ASTM, CSA, Underwriters Laboratories to name a few. All these organizations are independent with no ties to the industries they set the standards for.

Alan Sturgess
 
Why not develop FACTS in conjunction with ISO then you would have a standard whith worldwide appeal…..my understanding is that it would cost $20,000 to $50,000 to run with ISO, I'm not sure if you can use ISO for the likes of FACTS.

ISO is a great way to go if your budget is limited and you need a management structure for quality……… you could start with the “legend” “ISO 9001 (or whatever the designated number is) IS Our Quality Goal”
 
Dermot ; I couldn't help but notice the similarity between the FACTS guidlines ,and the ISO stantards that were instituted and the refinery I worked at previously. I know others who have always been Framers may see no such tie ,but it sounds good to me. This is especially since the ISO standards are (As you noted) set for International Trade practices. Further more they do have already established gradeing groups who check to see that the Standards are being complied with.( I know it smacks of Frameing Police). Has there ever been any investigations into the application of ISO with FACTS? This could be the connection between the Standards and the enforcement by a non-trade-organization body.
BUDDY
 
Originally posted by Nina Montanaro:
[QB]Paul-I'm VP of New Jersey's PPFA-I don't believe we've ever met. I'd like to personally invite you to our next meeting--

Nina

After Nicole left I contacted the new president a few times... I told him I'd like to be involved but received no info..

I have received no newsletter no phone calls nothing... I was disappointed. As I had gotten much help from members in the past...

I am glad to hear the NJ chapter is still intact.. I feared the worst...

Please forward to me some of the last newsletters and minutes of the meetings I'd love to catch up before I attempt a meeting....
 
Paul, I don't mean this unkindly, but it sounds like you're a person who wants ALL the information before you commit to anything. You need the 2003 FACTS budget before you can commit $30 to it's survival. You need chapter newletters and minutes before you'll attend a PPFA chapter meeting. Do ya ever just get caught up in the spirit of a thing?

I'll admit that it's hard for me not to spend even a few hours with Jim Miller and Nona Powers and Jay Goltz and some others without getting fired up and excited. I've managed to get by for 25 years of business with no real awareness of FACTS standards. I'll be happier and better informed for the next 25 if those standards are in place and updated regularly.
 
I don't understand why a small amount of posters on the Grumble need to exaggerate, twist words and make-up facts (no pun intended).
Ron, I never said I NEED the 2003 FACTS budget (but why is it a secret or doesn't anybody know?). I never said I need chapter newsletters and minutes before I'll attend a meeting (I would like them, sure).

Unlike you, I don't like to go off in an impetuous manner. I like to make smart decisions.

Are you making another assumption that I'm NOT caught up in the spirit of this thing? I think it's pretty obvious that I am. However I feel we should know the details before we find out there is no water in the pool..

I am the President of a club of over 400 members... I have spent well over 100,000 this year and not one of the members has ever had to question me or my board as to why....It is all laid out and the expected results are known before we start....

I have never been comfortable spending other peoples money.. Even if it is in there best interest....

I do like to know exactly what is needed of me and I do beleive there are things in the jungle that can kill me....

What good would I serve the local chapter of the PPFA if I attend a meeting and have no clue what they are doing and what I should be prepared to vote on before I get there....Wasting effort is not one of favorite things to do...

I can understand how you may be over powered by a few big names in the industry.. However those days are over for me... Once burned twice shy....

Why is the plan in hand for the 30,000 so secert.. WE all agree the FACTS program is solid... Why must all the business be handled behind a closed door....
 
Every dime that goes into and is spent by FACTS is posted on their website. www.artfacts.com They are a certain type of charity and must make all bookkeeping public.

There is not a firm plan in place for where the money will go right now because it is not clear that FACTS will survive. Right now the object is to show the other people in the indutry that FACTS is important to framers and they will support it. The money will be spent on services for framers. Each subscription will get a return. There is a lot of work to do, but if FACTS is important, it will be done.

Read the post I just did on one of these topics. I've been moving around so much, I don't know where I posted last. Also read Ron's ediorial piece he just did for PFM magazine and Alice Gibsons in the PPFA Members only. They both describe it all very well.

Keep aking questions, but send your check in while your getting answers.

Nona Powers, CPF, GCF
www.nonapowers.com
 
Originally posted by Paul M:
... I feel we should know the details before we find out there is no water in the pool...[QB]
Paul, there is no water in the pool. The pool is empty, and we need your help to fill it.

[QB]...I do like to know exactly what is needed of me and I do beleive there are things in the jungle that can kill me...[QB] [/QUOTE]

What is needed of you is at least $30. Yes, it is a jungle out there, but I promise that nothing in FACTS can kill you.

[QB]...Why is the plan in hand for the 30,000 so secret...WE all agree the FACTS program is solid...Why must all the business be handled behind a closed door....
[/QUOTE]

There are no secrets in FACTS. Plans have been discussed, but nothing is in motion yet. Your input is invited. There are no closed doors at FACTS -- there are no doors to be closed. FACTS is not yet solid. We are determined to make it solid, and we need your support to do it.

If you have questions, they will be honestly answered. If you want a plan of action that is cast in concrete before you wish to participate, then please stand by.
 
Paul- As I posted previously, go to our website at www.njppfa.com. The newsletter is on the website, as is all information for planned events. Photos of this year's winners of the NJ competition are posted as well.
 
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