Advice on a purchase of set of equipment

[Theo87]

Hi everyone,


I’ve not been on this forum before, but I’ve been using it to look things up and it’s been extremely helpful — so thanks to everyone who contributes.


I’m currently looking at buying some equipment from eBay (link below). It’s quite a peculiar old Morso, and the main reason I’m interested in this lot is to get the Morso cutter and the underpinner. It’s a complete set, which feels ideal for me as I’m just setting up — starting as a hobbyist but hoping to turn it into a small business.

I’ve got a fair amount of work I want to frame anyway, so this seems like a good way to begin.


My main question is whether anyone has any information on this particular Morso guillotine, its serial number is 2098

as it looks quite different from the others I’ve seen. I’ll post the eBay link, but I’ve also included a photo here in case anyone recognises it. Its a real mission away to get it, hence my uncertainty.


I’d really appreciate any thoughts or feedback.


Thanks a lot.

 

[Reiner Blom]

Hey so I've done some sleuthing around the internet and seem to have found some information, this is from an old series of vintage frame Clippers called Morso Jyden. They were made primarily in the 1950s and on another thread I found a data sheet dating the year this bad boy would've been made in. It was only really around the 50s and 60s that they painted them red, they changed the design and colour to green pretty much right after this model. But it seems to cut exactly like the rest, if you can source new blades if should work a treat. Serial number 2098 dates back to roughly 1938, information found here

F

Thread 'Ever seen a Morso chopper this old? What’s it worth?'

May 28, 2023

Ever seen a Morso chopper this old? What do you think it’s worth?

• Flubber
• Replies: 14
• Forum: Framing Equipment Support and Advice

• 

 

[Theo87]

Gward you absolute legend - thanks so much, it looks in pretty good condition and comes with a new set of blades. I think the only thing it is missing is the new style fence stop and a guard - do you think there is anything else I should be on the watch out for ? or is it worth getting a newer machine as they are not so much more expensive ? I do actually like the style of this one, but whats good is it comes with a whole load of other gear which makes it worth it.

 

[Reiner Blom]

Gward you absolute legend - thanks so much, it looks in pretty good condition and comes with a new set of blades. I think the only thing it is missing is the new style fence stop and a guard - do you think there is anything else I should be on the watch out for ? or is it worth getting a newer machine as they are not so much more expensive ? I do actually like the style of this one, but whats good is it comes with a whole load of other gear which makes it worth it.

I've seen many reviews all over the place of people saying that with a new pair of blades it's no different from the new stuff and twice as pretty. You can get them pretty cheap all things considered so I'd say give it a bash you could always sell it to an antique store if it really doesn't fit your fancy. It's also a charming look to add to a workshop. I would say however to just give it a once over on the moving parts once you're in person if you choose to go for it, stuff like the foot piece and what it's attached to, see how smoothly it moves because if it's something that can just be made nice with some elbow grease you've no worries but you don't want the thing jamming on you halfway through a frame

 

[Rick Granick]

The basic setup and mechanism look pretty similar to current machines. It is likely fine, especially if there is an extra set of blades.
A potential problem might be finding any needed replacement parts for a model that old. You might want to talk to Jill at TechMark in N. Little Rock, AR. They distribute Morso in the US, and are quite knowledgeable about them. BTW, keeping the blades sharp and properly installed is essential to getting good results. These blades should be hollow ground. Do a search here on the Grumble, as these issues have been extensively discussed,
Rick

 

[wpfay]

I have a Jyden that was purchased used by my Father in 1973, so a bit newer, but essentially the same working parts.
The lower end is no longer open cast iron legs, but a steel cabinet.
One check I would do is to move the head as close to the fence as possible, engaging the detent, and see if you can move the head to or away from you manually. That should be a motionless stop, but the detent's teeth wear and it can get a bit sloppy. It's not a deal killer, but will need to be addressed eventually.
The people at Morso are also very helpful. One visits here occasionally.

 

[Underpinner Spares]

It’s a Morso (not a Jyden) and the serial number means it was built in 1957, the earlier designs had a different case to the current style but the blades/springs etc are the same as todays model.

I believe the burgundy colour was later changed to green for a trade show in Germany as red wasn’t a very popular colour in Europe due to the Soviet occupation of Eastern Europe during that period in time.

 

[neilframer]

I've used Jyden, Morso and Hansen choppers over my 57 years of framing

I'm still framing....
We mostly use a CTD double mitre saw but once in a while we still use a chopper for certain things.

I thought that chopper was a Jyden because the Jyden had the open back and front and the option to move the foot pedal to the left or right versus the wide pedal on the Morso and Hansen.
There might have been a little difference with the Jyden blades and the Morso blades at some point as far as the bolt holes.
As mentioned Jill at TechMark is a great resource for info.

Welcome to Tech Mark | Tech Mark

www.tech-mark.com

I always appreciate the input and info from Mark, Underpinner Spares.

 

[Tato Karlo]

I would strongly advise against using this guillotine for work. Don’t make that mistake.

 

[wpfay]

I would strongly advise against using this guillotine for work. Don’t make that mistake.

Would you care to elaborate on your advice?

 

[Tato Karlo]

I wouldn’t recommend buying this old Morso. If a modern, fully functional Morso F costs roughly the same, there’s absolutely no sensible reason to buy a 1957 model just for its ‘charm’. An old machine is, in essence, antique equipment with no real technological advantage: the description explicitly states that its basic components are the same as those in the modern model. In other words, you get nothing unique, but you do get age, potential wear and tear, risks, and unnecessary worries about its condition. Equipment shouldn’t demand constant attention from the user. A good machine should be ‘invisible’ — you shouldn’t have to think about it; it should simply stand there and work reliably. It’s better to spend your mental energy on work, orders and earnings, rather than on an antique machine that you’ll have to constantly worry about. If you have the chance to get a modern Morso F for a similar price, it’s simply a much smarter, more stress-free and more professional choice.

Would you care to elaborate on your advice?

 

[alacrity8]

The only information on pricing from Theo87 is this "or is it worth getting a newer machine as they are not so much more expensive"
A base model new Machine seems to be about $5,000. No idea what that would be in Wales.
Also, no idea if they are talking about a new machine or a newer used machine.
A machine from 1957, that has been well cared for, is very likely better than a machine from 1990 that has not been cared for.
As we have no specifics, it is hard to male suggestions.

 

[Tato Karlo]

The only information on pricing from Theo87 is this "or is it worth getting a newer machine as they are not so much more expensive"
A base model new Machine seems to be about $5,000. No idea what that would be in Wales.
Also, no idea if they are talking about a new machine or a newer used machine.
A machine from 1957, that has been well cared for, is very likely better than a machine from 1990 that has not been cared for.
As we have no specifics, it is hard to male suggestions.

With respect, I do think a concrete recommendation can be made here.
Over the last 20 years I have bought and sold around 50 Morso guillotines, and from that experience my view is quite simple: for real work, it is better to buy a later proven Morso model and avoid 1957 machines unless you specifically want one for its charm.
Yes, condition matters. A well-kept 1957 machine can be better than a neglected 1990 one. But that is not really the main point. In the UK I have seen later used Morso machines in very good working condition selling for around £600–£700, sometimes even with the left extension wing included. At that level, there is no strong practical reason to choose a 1957 machine just because it looks interesting.
For business, equipment should not demand constant attention from the owner. A good machine should be almost invisible: you should not have to think about it, worry about it, or spend mental energy on it. It should simply work accurately and reliably.
That is why, from my side, I would recommend sticking to later, proven Morso models and not complicating things with old antique units if the machine is meant for daily work rather than collecting.

 

[Tato Karlo]

Hi everyone,


I’ve not been on this forum before, but I’ve been using it to look things up and it’s been extremely helpful — so thanks to everyone who contributes.


I’m currently looking at buying some equipment from eBay (link below). It’s quite a peculiar old Morso, and the main reason I’m interested in this lot is to get the Morso cutter and the underpinner. It’s a complete set, which feels ideal for me as I’m just setting up — starting as a hobbyist but hoping to turn it into a small business.

View attachment 54766


I’ve got a fair amount of work I want to frame anyway, so this seems like a good way to begin.


My main question is whether anyone has any information on this particular Morso guillotine, its serial number is 2098View attachment 54767 as it looks quite different from the others I’ve seen. I’ll post the eBay link, but I’ve also included a photo here in case anyone recognises it. Its a real mission away to get it, hence my uncertainty.


I’d really appreciate any thoughts or feedback.


Thanks a lot.

If you are a beginner, my honest advice is to avoid such an antique Morso and look for a later, proven working model.
Such machines should really only be purchased by experienced craftsmen who already know Morso guillotines well enough to assess wear, geometry, hidden problems, missing parts and the real cost of bringing an old machine to reliable daily operation.
For a beginner, this is exactly the type of purchase that can lead you into a trap. Not because the machine is necessarily bad, but because you do not yet have the experience to understand for sure whether you are looking at a good old machine or an old problem. This is a very important distinction.
In my opinion, experienced craftsmen should be careful when they give a beginner half-hearted encouraging advice about such equipment. A beginner does not need romance or mystery in a machine. A beginner wants reliability, predictability and a machine that just works.
Good equipment should not require constant attention from the owner. You shouldn't be thinking about the machine all the time, worrying about parts, questioning settings, or wondering what's going to break next. Equipment for daily work should be almost invisible - it should just do its job accurately and consistently.
So if your goal is to get serious about framing, I would strongly advise looking at a later Morso F or another later proven Morso model in good working order. Antique machines are best left to collectors, enthusiasts, or experienced craftsmen who know exactly what they're looking at.
For a beginner, the safer and more professional route is to go with a later, more standard machine.

 

[wpfay]

Thank you. A well reasoned and excellent reply. Good advice for a beginner.
Oh, and a belated "Welcome to the Grumble!".