Opinions Wanted C&H Bainbridge C-52 Artmate

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cb200t

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Hello everyone! Long time lurker, first time poster. I am a hobbyist woodworker who has an interest in framing my photos and art work I’ve collected while traveling. I came across this mat cutter and am wondering if it is a good purchase for my use.

The seller has agreed to lower the price to $125. I’d be using it for personal use and in low volume. I’ve linked the Facebook ad. Even if it’s not the best machine out there, I have to believe it’s better than a straight edge and the hand held cutter I have now, but I would appreciate your thought and opinions before I purchase it this evening. Thank you!

Alex

Link to the ad: https://m.facebook.com/marketplace/item/513709424783989/
 
Welcome to the G.
My only concern is the availability of replacement blades. If they are generic or a currently available branded product, I would say the bar is low enough (better than a straight edge and a knife) to be a step up.

There are professional grade mat cutters coming on the secondary market from frame shops that are closing. Not long ago there was one posted here that was “free to good home”.
 
Looks like Fletcher blades, but not sure which ones (can't tell from photo). Looks like a decent upgrade to me but I would ask for a photo of the blades.
Of course you can't tell from listing/photos how well it is working and what adjustments might have to be made to get good cuts.
 
Ylva said:
Looks like Fletcher blades, but not sure which ones (can't tell from photo). Looks like a decent upgrade to me but I would ask for a photo of the blades.
Of course you can't tell from listing/photos how well it is working and what adjustments might have to be made to get good cuts.
Click to expand...
Thank you for the reply. I am going over to see it, play with it, and likely buy it this evening.

From the photos, I think it uses two different types of blades. One for straight, perpendicular cuts and another for the beveled cuts. The seller said he has had this since new, and it comes with all of its parts and the instruction manual.

I’ve seen other selling for less, but there’s nothing available currently for close to this price. Anything that is comparable in price gets expensive quickly with shipping added.
 
Looks very much like a C&H Advantage Mat Cutter.
The 1200 SE blades are still easily available for that.
 
Thank you for the responses. I bought the cutter last night! Thankfully, it has the manual with it. If it would be beneficial to people on this site, I can scan it and upload it somewhere for others to use.

The cutter is not in good adjustment. I've been carefully reading through the manual, and comparing the setup with the cutter and I find it needs to be gone through. The slide rail is dirty, and the cutter block is seizing if the adjustment screw is tensioned slightly. The hold down clamp is not parallel with the grooves, etc. etc. I'll give the whole thing a good clean and lube, and a proper setup.

As this is my first foray into the world of "actual framing", I'm very impressed with the device. I can see how it would be slow for a professional frame shop, especially when CNC cutters are available, but an amateur like me who is only doing work for myself, this will be a huge step up from buying pre cut mats, or trying to cut them with a straightedge and a Logan cutter.

I have a wood shop, but I found and purchased a lovely Morso miter guillotine for an absolute song which I refurbished. The knives were sent out to Tech-Mark to have the proper grind put back on them, and the machine is now an absolute joy to own and use. I also have two of the old Stanley miter clamps, and bought a pneumatic corner stapler which seems to work very well.

Thanks again for the advice. I'm sure I'll have more questions as I go along, but this site is a wealth of knowledge and experience!
 
wpfay said:
Welcome to the G.
My only concern is the availability of replacement blades. If they are generic or a currently available branded product, I would say the bar is low enough (better than a straight edge and a knife) to be a step up.

There are professional grade mat cutters coming on the secondary market from frame shops that are closing. Not long ago there was one posted here that was “free to good home”.
Click to expand...

Ylva said:
Looks like Fletcher blades, but not sure which ones (can't tell from photo). Looks like a decent upgrade to me but I would ask for a photo of the blades.
Of course you can't tell from listing/photos how well it is working and what adjustments might have to be made to get good cuts.
Click to expand...

alacrity8 said:
Looks very much like a C&H Advantage Mat Cutter.
The 1200 SE blades are still easily available for that.
Click to expand...

It uses two different types of blades. One for straight cuts, and one for beveled cuts. The straight cutter uses the Stanley #1991 utility blades. The beveled cutter uses C&H #1200 or #1500 depending on the type of mat being cut. "#1200 for regular cuts, and #1500 for heavier mats or harder acid-free mat boards" to quote the manual.
 
I still use a C&H Advantage on occasion.
I found that having both cutters on the machine makes my hand hurt.
I removed the straight cutter, as I rarely used it anyway.
 
I plan to keep the straight cutter to size photo mats. This is the only tool I have to do it with. Unless I cut them on my table saw.
 
A photographer friend of mine had an Art-Mate mat cutter years ago. As I recall, it was a similar design to the C+H professional cutters, but made to much less exacting standards. It might be difficult to keep it squared or the mat guide truly parallel to the cutter bar. You might be better off drawing guide lines on the back of your matboard and cut to the lines. With practice, you will learn the tolerances involved, including exactly where to align your guide lines relative to the edge of the bar.

Whatever else you do, remove the cutter head from the bar (with no blades installed) and clean all surfaces with some lighter fluid on a Kleenex tissue. Reassemble everything and install new blades. Remember that you want to use a slipsheet (a piece of matboard about 6" to 8" wide, and about 40" long) underneath the mat you are cutting, and adjust the blade depth so that when the head is rotated to plunge the blade into the mat for making your cut, the blade should go all the way through the mat, and then be just deep enough to slightly score the slip sheet, but not really cut it. If the blade is set too deep, you will get drag and uneven cutting. Also, when the blade starts getting a bit dull, replace it with a fresh one. Remember: Blades are Cheap / Matboard is Expensive.
If you use the Search function in the upper right corner of the Grumble screen, you will find much more guidance on using and maintaining a straightline mat cutter.
:cool: Rick
 
Rick Granick said:
A photographer friend of mine had an Art-Mate mat cutter years ago. As I recall, it was a similar design to the C+H professional cutters, but made to much less exacting standards. It might be difficult to keep it squared or the mat guide truly parallel to the cutter bar. You might be better off drawing guide lines on the back of your matboard and cut to the lines. With practice, you will learn the tolerances involved, including exactly where to align your guide lines relative to the edge of the bar.

Whatever else you do, remove the cutter head from the bar (with no blades installed) and clean all surfaces with some lighter fluid on a Kleenex tissue. Reassemble everything and install new blades. Remember that you want to use a slipsheet (a piece of matboard about 6" to 8" wide, and about 40" long) underneath the mat you are cutting, and adjust the blade depth so that when the head is rotated to plunge the blade into the mat for making your cut, the blade should go all the way through the mat, and then be just deep enough to slightly score the slip sheet, but not really cut it. If the blade is set too deep, you will get drag and uneven cutting. Also, when the blade starts getting a bit dull, replace it with a fresh one. Remember: Blades are Cheap / Matboard is Expensive.
If you use the Search function in the upper right corner of the Grumble screen, you will find much more guidance on using and maintaining a straightline mat cutter.
:cool: Rick
Click to expand...

Thanks for the advice, Rick! I'm in the process of disassembling everything to give it a good clean and lubrication. The previous owner didn't appear to have taken much care with it, and things are pretty out of adjustment. He also didn't appear to have used a slip sheet, or have paid attention to the blade depth as the grooves for the blades are chewed up from blades being too deep.

Larry Peterson said:
You will need a mat cutting saw blade for that; a special order from BladesAreUs.com. A wood cutting blade will just rip up the mats. :faintthud:
Click to expand...
I'm just kidding. I'll rough them to dimension, and then clean them up with the mat cutter. :D
 
If you use the SE blades, remember that only one end works. There is a little arrow embossed on the side of the blade pointing to the correct end. The framer I bought my 60" Barton mat cutter from sold it cheap because he just couldn't get a straight line with it. I pointed out that he had the SE blade in backwards. He didn't believe me or was too embarrassed to admit his mistake, and sold it to me anyway.

If you have the room to have a dedicated space for the mat cutter and can secure the base and squaring arm to a level table, you will get more consistent results. Second to that would be some kind of clamping system to hold it in place.
 
cb200t said:
I'm in the process of disassembling everything to give it a good clean and lubrication. The previous owner didn't appear to have taken much care with it, and things are pretty out of adjustment. He also didn't appear to have used a slip sheet, or have paid attention to the blade depth as the grooves for the blades are chewed up from blades being too deep.
Click to expand...
Wow. Sounds like this machine has been through the battles. Hope you can get it cleaned and calibrated well enough to get good results. If not, keep your eye on the Commercial Posts section here on the Grumble, because good used professional cutters often come up for sale. Or contact AIM Equipment. They specialize in used framing equipment.
:cool: Rick
 
wpfay said:
If you use the SE blades, remember that only one end works. There is a little arrow embossed on the side of the blade pointing to the correct end. The framer I bought my 60" Barton mat cutter from sold it cheap because he just couldn't get a straight line with it. I pointed out that he had the SE blade in backwards. He didn't believe me or was too embarrassed to admit his mistake, and sold it to me anyway.

If you have the room to have a dedicated space for the mat cutter and can secure the base and squaring arm to a level table, you will get more consistent results. Second to that would be some kind of clamping system to hold it in place.
Click to expand...
Good to know, thank you for the advice.
Rick Granick said:
Wow. Sounds like this machine has been through the battles. Hope you can get it cleaned and calibrated well enough to get good results. If not, keep your eye on the Commercial Posts section here on the Grumble, because good used professional cutters often come up for sale. Or contact AIM Equipment. They specialize in used framing equipment.
:cool: Rick
Click to expand...
Unfortunately, after further inspection this unit is damaged. The blade holder has been unevenly worn, and won't be able to cut straight. I'm looking for other options, and have found a Fletcher 2100 that I may buy instead. A friend of mine is talking to a couple of guys at work to see if one of them wants to try and repair, or make a new knife holder for the C-52.
 
That is a very good machine. Its design is somewhat different from the C+H model, as its head rides on ball bearings.
It's kinda like driving a big car with soft suspension, vs. a smaller car where you "feel the road" more with the C+H. Although I have had a Wizard CMC for many years, I still sometimes use my good old C+H which I have cared for well over the years. I also fitted it with a jig for cutting shadowbox spacers on the straight-cut side.
:cool: Rick
 
Rick Granick said:
That is a very good machine. Its design is somewhat different from the C+H model, as its head rides on ball bearings.
It's kinda like driving a big car with soft suspension, vs. a smaller car where you "feel the road" more with the C+H. Although I have had a Wizard CMC for many years, I still sometimes use my good old C+H which I have cared for well over the years. I also fitted it with a jig for cutting shadowbox spacers on the straight-cut side.
:cool: Rick
Click to expand...

I'm hoping the stops that came with the C-52 will fit on the Fletcher, but that will save me making some from wood blocks (definitely not spending the money on the ones from Fletcher!) Rick, I see you are located in Cincinnati. I'll be driving right past you on the way to pick up the mat cutter. I live near Bellefontaine 2.5 hrs north of you!
 
I doubt the stops you have will fit on the Fletcher, but you'll have to wait and see. I'm surprised the Fletcher doesn't have stops. Have you seen pictures of this machine? Condition is very important. If it is damaged or out of alignment, you will never get the accurate results you want. I would ask the seller to demonstrate it or let you try it out before buying. If it isn't up to par, I would pass on it and wait for something better to come along. There is a lot of good used equipment out there, because of older framers retiring, or just switching to a computerized cutter. Without stops, you could still use the cutter, but you would have to measure and mark lines on the back of the mat and cut to those. Nothing wrong with that, except it takes more time (and adhering to the "measure twice, cut once" advice). If you aren't making a large number of mats, the extra time and effort may not be that important.
:cool: Rick
 
Do the fletcher 2000 series mat cutters work well without stops?
 
wpfay said:
Do the fletcher 2000 series mat cutters work well without stops?
Click to expand...
I have always been a C+H user* so I don't know for sure, but I would imagine you can use them without stops, but it might be trickier because of the "feel the road" issue I mentioned in post #17.
:cool: Rick

* if you don't count the "Logan II" cutter I got when I first opened in 1977. It was actually a nice, well-made machine with an interesting design. It had a stationary bar with a larger-than-usual head that rode on it. You pushed down on a palm-operated lever to rotate the blade holder down into cutting position. This would make it useful for volume mat cutting, as you just rotate the blank between cuts, without having to lift a heavy bar, and hold the blank against the mat guide and stops. It used jacketed no-notch razor blades. I once met Mal Logan at a trade show, and told him I had one of those. He laughed and said it was now a collector's item. I still have it in storage.
 
Both the C&H and the Keeton have the blade making contact with the bar, right (I only know Keetons do)?
I think the Fletchers have the blade in a magazine and it "floats" away from the bar, making cutting by eye difficult at best, hence the question about stops.
 
wpfay said:
Both the C&H and the Keeton have the blade making contact with the bar, right (I only know Keetons do)?
I think the Fletchers have the blade in a magazine and it "floats" away from the bar, making cutting by eye difficult at best, hence the question about stops.
Click to expand...
On a C&H Advantage, the Blade should not touch the bar. Not sure on the Artmate.
 
Hi again all, I bought the Fletcher 2100 yesterday and spent the afternoon disassembling, cleaning, reassembling, and calibrating it. It cuts like a dream, and I cut my first mats with it. I really could not be happier with it! The stops from the ArtMate DO NOT fit the Fletcher, and I'll have to make my own stops if I want them. That being said, for the low work volume I'll have, I don't mind marking on the back of the mats.

The next question I have is, I'm completely overwhelmed with what to use for backing material. I plan on either hinging, or platform mounting the art, but I'm wondering if there is a recommendation for a backing material, and a recommendation for adhesive tape to be used for hinging. Thanks!
 
Glad you now have a good cutter. For your backing, you can use the same type of matboard you are using for the mat. (I assume it is preservation quality, like rag or Alpha core.) The mounting itself depends on WHAT you are mounting. There are lots of threads to search here about hinging. If you are doing a platform mount you won't need any adhesive or tape at all, as the item is held in place behind the cut mat by the fallout of the slightly larger straight-cut opening in the recessed lower mat.
wpfay said:
Both the C&H and the Keeton have the blade making contact with the bar, right (I only know Keetons do)?
I think the Fletchers have the blade in a magazine and it "floats" away from the bar, making cutting by eye difficult at best, hence the question about stops.
Click to expand...
The blade does not touch the bar on the C+H, but comes down about 3/32" away from it. Nevertheless, with just a little practice, you can easily figure out where your guidelines should be, relative to the bar when cutting.
:cool: Rick
 
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