What is that "great" corner joining glue for wood?

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cjmst3k

cjmst3k

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
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Apr 25, 2006
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I remember a thread talking about using something other than wood glue. Corner Weld perhaps? I need to reorder from UMS and was thinking about trying a different glue than the UMS wood glue.

Anyone know what I'm talking about?
 
mik said:
I use both Corner Weld and UMS white glue. I like both as they work equally well. Corner Weld seems to be thicker.
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Now that I'm looking for it, I don't see it on the UMS website. Did you buy yours thru UMS? Is it comparable in price? And you're saying it's about the same strength and usability?
 
I have used all kinds of glue from conerweld to everyother spelty glue promoted within the framing industry. In the end Titebond from sears has always worked the best!
 
mik said:
UMS no.2259 Picture Framer's White Glue page 68 of catalog#688
Find this and Corner Weld to be the same in strength (IMO)
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So this...
http://www.unitedmfrs.com/cart/detail.cfm?item=2259

...versus Corner Weld are identical for joining wood? And both of those two are identical to wood glue?

Should I just stick with yellow wood glue, if everything has the same strength and time of bonding?
 
There was an article about wood glues in a fine woodworking magazine a couple years ago. They tried all the types including old ones like casein. In the end Titebond got the gold star, although it's funny how companies still capable of buying advertising so often win the gold star.

I have not too scientifically found that Miracle Muck works nice on corners and dries clear and fast, and seems to pull apart no easier than Titebond.

Have been using regular Titebond because it washes out of my clothes, Titebond II and III don't. There is also a Titebond at Lowes labeled as being for (crown) moulding. It's gummier than regular Titebond, doesn't flow off the surface so readily. I use it on liners because it dries clear.
 
I think each framer has her/his own opinion of which glue to use....where they can buy it, cost, does it dry yellow or clear and when it dries is it brittle or does it have some flexibility. I've used yellow and white. The last gallon of TiteBond (reg yellow) dried brittle...when I tried to vnail the corner broke open. I've tried Elmer's wood glue and it too was very brittle and took forever to set up. The white glues seem to contain PVA which set quick and makes the glued corner "give" a little. (IMO) So I like the white which "gives" and dries clear. Try a certain glue. If you like it, use it.
 
Corner Weld is stronger than the wood itself. It is PVA. Titebond will fail castostropically by bumping the corner. Corner Weld only needs about 70% coverage inside the miter to hold perfectly.

Believe it or not, LJ has the best price on Corner Weld.
 
I've used both Corner Weld and Titebond. I just hate the tops of those Titebond glue bottles! They always clog and take more time to clean than the Corner Weld.
 
Bron said:
I vote for hide glue, as there is no need to recut a fractured joint. Hide glue will stick to and regenerate itself, unlike the PVA type glues.
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For a miter to fail with Corner Weld the frame will suffer such an impact that a new one is needed anyway. The only failures I have to deal with are ones where a new frame is sold to replace the destroyed frame.
 
"Corner Weld is stronger than the wood itself. It is PVA. Titebond will fail castostropically by bumping the corner. Corner Weld only needs about 70% coverage inside the miter to hold perfectly."

Titebond is also a PVA, polyvinyl acetate. The difference between brands generally has to do with solids content.

I restore a lot of antique frames, I'm starting to see frames glued with PVAs. The nature of miter joints requires a mechanical bond, the nails or whatever to hold it together, as one or more of the joints will crack and fail, sometimes in just a few years, depending on heat and humidity, regardless of glue. Hide glue can be reversed and regenerated, unlike any of the "wood" glues. PVAs chemically change.
 
Bron said:
I restore a lot of antique frames, I'm starting to see frames glued with PVAs. The nature of miter joints requires a mechanical bond, the nails or whatever to hold it together, as one or more of the joints will crack and fail, sometimes in just a few years, depending on heat and humidity, regardless of glue. Hide glue can be reversed and regenerated, unlike any of the "wood" glues. PVAs chemically change.
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So what's the best way to join picture frames, looking at it from a restorer's point of view? I have seen a lot of old frames with broken corners, but also some with all corners in great shape, what makes the difference?
 
Good question!

More so,

There are a lot of factors, only a few which we can control. Well seasoned wood, properly dried before being molded. A clean miter, freshly cut, good glue and glue up, done rapidly enough that the glue doesn't dry before the final joint is joined. Properly sized mechanical fasteners. ( A miter join is end grain to end grain, the weakest of all possible joints). Some causes of failures; Lack of humidity in heated air in the winter, sloppy miters, stale glue, bad technique.

When I build frames from scratch, I use inlet splines in the back, and or blind frames to reinforce the joints. Doesn't always prevent cracking, but will hold every thing together. I use a moisture meter for unfinished lumber, and will meter gessoed frames to see how they are drying, trying to keep around 6-8%.

I advocate for hide glue because it is reversible, will regenerate, is strong enough, and I can control both viscosity and drying time quite simply. Titebond's liquid hide glue is a terrific product. I keep a bottle around, though I use a hot glue pot and various strengths of glue for most of my glue ups. Hide glue is far more satisfactory for framing than the PVAs, for me.

One other benefit of hide glue, especially if you are working with finished moldings, is that the glue generally does not stick to finishes.
 
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The question is are we building closed corner frames or 22kt. On prefabricated mouldings there is really no justification for anything beyond glueing with the strongest and lonest lasting glue.

In the past I manufactured closed corner frames and hand leafed mouldings but 99.9% of what we use should get no consideration for future restorations. I also offered full frame restoration services. Most restoration jobs are way more expensive than a new frame.
 
Just thought I would throw this out there and see if it would stick....

...awful I know. Any way, met a nice rep from Omega at the PPFA hooha. Handed me a corner sample and asked me to pull it apart, I am a girl, yeah right. Anyway he was very nice, the frame stayed in one piece and I truly tried to get it apart (when he wasn't looking). He got my attention with his little pitch, I read the bottle, he gave me a wee sample, couple of weeks later,coupla ounces down and I am nearly through it, like it way better than the Corner Weld I normally use. I just ain't as messy.
The bottle says Miter Magic Seriously Strong Polyvinyl Wood Glue Transparent When Dry Cleans Up With Water Fast Drying Quick Setting
Omega Framing Products
I think the rep was called Paco. He knew I didn't stand a chance pulling those frames apart. I think he saw me try. Can't blame a gal for trying.
Anyway there is my penny and a half,
Cathy
 
Thanks for the reply Bron. I keep thinking there must be something simple I could be doing to make the joints better than the standard PVA + v-nail thing.
 
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