V-Nailer repair

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janetj1968

janetj1968

PFG, Picture Framing God
Joined
Oct 16, 2007
Posts
5,935
Loc
Buena Vista, VA
I have a 15 year (yeah, yeah I know) old ITW-AMP v-nailer that's decided to kick the 'end of useful life' bucket. It has been a wonderful machine and I hate to lose it. It started having a serious delay in shooting in the v-nail. Everything else worked great.

I found a local place that does repairs and thought 'wonderful'. The tech came...a really nice guy, diagnosed for an hour and a half plus drove two hours of travel time. With a $70 part my repair was $300. Okay, reasonable. I agree to pay that. And by the way, a half hour of that labor at $50 an hour was because the repair man forgot teflon tape (who would forget Teflon tape repairing pneumatics) and I walked to the closest hardware store to get him some. (He wasn't left with a vehicle and didn't know the area.) That took me 15 minutes and they round up to the next half an hour. He also told me he was new to the company...he has experience with pneumatics but not v-nailers.

My problem is that the repair fixed a bad leak in a regulator (I have high frequency hearing loss and can't hear air leaks, bad for me) which was thought to be the culprit. To save another two hour (second trip) I asked if I could replace the part myself. No problem, they said.

After installing the new part, the machine still does exactly what it was doing before. So what was fixed wasn't the problem..although I can certainly see that it needed to be fixed even for additional diagnosis. I notified the company that the machine wasn't fixed as soon as I put on the part. Since then (I had to use it, even working slow) the driver head won't come up at all, but you can hear this little clink when it tries....

I asked what I thought was reasonable--for a return trip to fix the 'real' problem...and I'd pay the additional labor...and the request not to be charged travel time. Their reply was that they'd 'done all they could do' and told me that I'd have to have someone else look at it.

No matter what I ask folks, that's my answer. I don't dog this company. I really like them a lot. I just think they're thinking their tech doesn't know what's wrong and it would cost me an arm and a leg to be his guinea pig. If it comes down to them losing money or me losing money, they're picking themselves. Not great customer service, but other than a refund (that was 'no'ed too' they have no real recourse if the guy can't fix things.

ITW/AMP has done all they can possibly do to help me. They're wonderful people. I want to buy a new ITW/AMP but I'm terrified to getting into the same situation.

My question is, does anyone know anyone who does ITW/AMP repair in Virginia who has experience and reasonable rates?

If not, who sells and services what they sell in Virginia?

I guess I'll be selling this one out for parts. Dibs, anyone?
 
It sounds like you've gotten good life and value out of your machine. I would not be afraid to go with another ITW-AMP. I have an older one too, and have replaced a number of parts on it myself over the years with help from the folks at the company. If I have a leak somewhere I can usually track it down using a cheap plastic stethoscope-type "headphone" I filched from an airline flight back when they used that type of system. It works great and is in "stereo". (My hearing is pretty decent though.) Then I confirm the leak source with a little soapy water to show the bubbles. Sometimes a tightening or adjustment is all that is needed, but sometimes you just gotta change out those parts. These machines are modular and pretty straightforward to work on.
:thumbsup: Rick
 
The machine is 15 years old (I know from experience this machine is a real workhorse) but I bought it used a little over four years ago. It was put into storage for a while, so in total its only joined about 500 frames since I've had it. I only paid $1500 and its a VN-4. (An excellent price for this model four years ago.) Ironically, the person who says they won't repair it is the same person I bought it from (he owns both companies). But again, I don't down this company. In many ways they've been good to me. I think again, its due to the repair person not having experience and them not wanting to cause me more expense than they know its worth.

I love ITW. No one beats their support. It mourns me to be scared to be put into the same situation.

What do you think about Inmes?
 
Sorry to hear of your dilemma, Janet. ITW/AMP is a good and durable brand, but given proper maintenence, any pneumatic underpinner should last at least a couple of decades without major troubles, even with heavy use.

Find someone who has good hearing and have them listen carefully around each of the major cylinders on your machine. If the air leakage is so loud that the source(s) can't be isolated, turn down the pressure and/or disconect the air from the cylinders one at a time. Like you, I have a high-frequency hearing impairment and can't hear air leaks (thanks to sharing the stage with big amplifiers for a few years during the 60s). However, Gail's hearing is good (dare I say astounding, at times), so she tells me when a hose or fitting in the shop is leaking.

If your machine has several leaking air cylinders, it may not be worth repairing. In that case, shop for a new one. Since you have a VN4, I suggest you consider upgrading to a Fletcher/Pilm 5700. With both these machines the moulding is clamped and held stationary throughout the joining process, and the driver mechanism moves -- much easier to use, especially for large frames. The Fletcher/Pilm 5700 has the advantage of double vertical clamps and some other features. You can learn all about that model with a search of the archives, or you're welcome to call me.

The fact that you're having leaks with a 15-year-old underpinner begs the question: Do you have an air filter/lubricator on the machine, or within a couple of feet of it? If not, how often do you lubricate your machine's air intake? My guess is that your lubrication has been inadequate.

It's important to know that the service life of any pneumatic device is determined by the quality of air that drives it. When air cylinders wear, they leak air, which requires increasingly more pressure to make them deliver a given amount of force. The best life is achieved when the air is:

Clean
Unseen particulate debris that accumulates in compressor tanks and air hoses can foul the seals of any cylinder.

Dry
Moisture condenses readily in compressed air, and it would rust or corrode the moving parts of cylinders.

Lubricated
The seals on air cylinders are friction devices. If not lubricated, they will wear out prematurely.
 
I'm thinking, by what you suggested...that it could be the storage of the machine that's led to its premature failure. The machine is oiled regularly (it glides very nicely), near the inlet and I had a kick valve installed on my air compressor when I first opened shop (its cleaned about every other use). So I think its not oil and its not lubrication. But it could be moisture/rust accumulation in storage that has caused something else to break.

There are no air leaks now. I've double checked for moisture by removing hoses off the control valve...and nothing came out. That's the really strange part. (I had my husband check for air leaks after the replacement part arrived...I needed to verify I got a good seal on the replacement) I'm thinking that a part of the driver mechanism simply broke, given the 'clinking' sound that I can hear.

Thanks for all of your help!
Jan
 
janetj1968 said:
...The machine is oiled regularly (it glides very nicely), near the inlet and I had a kick valve installed on my air compressor when I first opened shop (its cleaned about every other use)...Jan
Click to expand...

"Near" the inlet? The oil must go into the machine's air intake port.

I'm not sure what a "kick valve" is, but if you're talking about a drain valve for the compressor tank, that's essential in keeping the tank from filling up with water, but not good enough to prevent moisture in the lines. A moisture trap and filter need to be on or very near the underpinner, as just a few feet of air hose or pipe could condense enough moisture and create enough particulate debris to cause problems.

The cost of replacement air cylinders can add up in a hurry, so it's good that you do not have leaks. If your only problem is a broken or worn driver "hammer", then you should be able to repair it at low cost. I place 1/2 drop of oil into the hammer hole about once a month. That is one of the few wear points on a pneumatic underpinner that isn't lubricated from the inside.
 
Jim Miller said:
"Near" the inlet? The oil must go into the machine's air intake port.

I'm not sure what a "kick valve" is, but if you're talking about a drain valve for the compressor tank, that's essential in keeping the tank from filling up with water, but not good enough to prevent moisture in the lines. A moisture trap and filter need to be on or very near the underpinner, as just a few feet of air hose or pipe could condense enough moisture and create enough particulate debris to cause problems.

The cost of replacement air cylinders can add up in a hurry, so it's good that you do not have leaks. If your only problem is a broken or worn driver "hammer", then you should be able to repair it at low cost. I place 1/2 drop of oil into the hammer hole about once a month. That is one of the few wear points on a pneumatic underpinner that isn't lubricated from the inside.
Click to expand...

Ah, I should've said I was oiling into the inlet versus using an inline oiler. Sorry for the confusion. This machine has a built in moisture trap and filter...or at least it was there when I got it and that's what I use...

I'm agreeing with you that it could be just a worn driver/hammer...and I hate to get rid of the machine just for that. Have you ever replaced one of these yourself?

Jan
 
I have a customer in VA that might be looking to sell a ITW. I know this is not what you wish to hear, but that maybe an option.

Where are you located? As I know there is no one in the state that services these machines. I have been wrong before, but I think that the people who do servicing are located in NC. I beleive that is where PAM technologies is located. I am not sure if they do ITW. You could google them...good luck.
 
TurnerAssociatesdy said:
I have a customer in VA that might be looking to sell a ITW. I know this is not what you wish to hear, but that maybe an option.

Where are you located? As I know there is no one in the state that services these machines. I have been wrong before, but I think that the people who do servicing are located in NC. I beleive that is where PAM technologies is located. I am not sure if they do ITW. You could google them...good luck.
Click to expand...

I'm located in Buena Vista, Virginia. Can you find out for me what model of machine and they're asking price? As long as its a machine that works well, I have no problem with a ITW/AMP.

Thanks!
Jan
 
I know I have been through or around Buena Vista...but I can not recall where it is. Well I shall ring my customer Friday and see what the v nailer it is. I think it is a Vn 2+4. I will check and let you know since tommorrow is technically his last day.
 
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