using cardboard as filler?

Create a Post
K

KennyAtha

Grumbler in Training
Joined
Jul 7, 2009
Posts
9
Loc
Peachtree City, Georgia
about using cardboard...Just finished another piece today which needed two full sheets of additional foamboard to build up the package to help prevent the dustcover from being easily torn. The package is on acid free foam board and is encapsulated. Is there any reason I should not use cardboard to make up the space?

Just wondered how other Grumbler's handle this?
 
I don't fill mine in unless it is a poly frame. (Don't usually use the stuff)

You can also try a search on the topic, it has been discussed here before.

Welcome to the G.

Bob
 
Thanks, I did search but came up empty. The question came up when another framer questioned my using cardboard to fill out the air space under the dust cover. My thoughts are that since it the cardboard is completely outside a sealed package, the cardboard is no more likely to leach acid than is the backling, frame, etc. I'd welcome input...
 
I do the filler routine with such frames and use cardboard behind the A/F foamboard as you mentioned.

The acid free foamboard is shipped and stored in cardboard boxes after all....;)
 
Cardboard Bad! IMHO

:kaffeetrinker_2: There is no need to use additional full sheets for the backing if you decide to fill flush. Use up some of that scrap foam for the center layers and just add additional full sheet as final layer.

It might be helpful to have some small samples taped together at the design counter for your use. Example: glass / double mat / foam - Glass / triple mat/foam other common possible combinations, then get in the habit of trying your sample in the chosen frame, you will find out if your frame is deep enough to accept your design, or if you need to charge for another piece of fill.
 
I don't fill, I use Tyvek backing paper, puncture resistant. If that's not available I seal with tape.
 
If a kraft paper dust cover is OK behind one layer of Artcare foam, what is wrong with cardboard? Inquiring minds want to know. (I use Lineco backing.)
 
As a professional framer, I would never use cardboard as a filler. Period.

Why? Besides being bad for artwork, it is outdated, cheap and tacky. Do you really want to be associated with that image?
 
I think it was FACTS that asked for examples of any artwork that had ever been damaged by regular foamcore. I think one person suggested that they had an example and it was unclear if it was indeed the foam that caused the damage. There are 90,000 items a day damaged by cardboard. Why use cardboard and take on the known risks to save $2?
 
Barb Pelton said:
As a professional framer, I would never use cardboard as a filler. Period.

Why? Besides being bad for artwork, it is outdated, cheap and tacky. Do you really want to be associated with that image?
Click to expand...

Jay H said:
I think it was FACTS that asked for examples of any artwork that had ever been damaged by regular foamcore. I think one person suggested that they had an example and it was unclear if it was indeed the foam that caused the damage. There are 90,000 items a day damaged by cardboard. Why use cardboard and take on the known risks to save $2?
Click to expand...

Yeah! Yeah! I know, but no one is answering my question. :D
 
ISO approved the use of foam core in a frame package. The approval was in sole reference to the core itself and not the face paper.

but be that as it may... 8mm CoreX at $11 for a 4'x8' sheet is a far cheaper filler, and a lot more protective. At least it doesn't come with that gaudy printing for "...idgedaire Frostle....". :D

and in my not so HO.... using cardboard is and always will be in same category as stripping down old boxes.
 
Depending on the item and the project I could fall on either side of the controversial backing paper debate. I don't think framing is always this or always that. In-fact I hate the topic and usually leave that discussion to the experts that like to pretend there is only one "right" way to frame.

I didn't answer that at first because I couldn't believe it was a real question. Kraft paper is a thin solid piece of paper that sits on the outside of the frame. Cardboard is thick, hollow, acid pumping machine that is sealed into the frame. There really is no reasonable comparison and even as I entertain the question cannot believe you really think the two are similar? Are you really suggesting that cardboard inside of a frame will impact the internal environment the same as a completely a/f package with a paper backing?

I guess if you wish to jump into the "this or that only" camp then it's not ok.
 
I guess many framers are using acid free FC (which is in direct contact with the art!!) that is already infected...... from having been stored in a cardboard container...... for God knows how long....;)
 
Jay H said:
I don't think framing is always this or always that.
Click to expand...

Amen.

But I think every framer sets his/her own standards.

I do not use cardboard, anytime. I use up scrap pieces of foam board (always plenty of those around).
I use lineco backing paper most of the times, but brown from time to time as well.
 
Nope...won't do it!! Begone with thee, evil cardboard! :shutup:

6a00d8341c582a53ef0120a561bda7970b-320wi
 
I'd never use cardboard as a filler, or regular mats, or regular glass, or packing tape, etc, etc on any framed item that leaves this shop - I try and give my customers value for their dollar not just the cheapest price. About 20 years ago I framed a Thomas Caldwell s/n print for my parents using regular foam core. After opening it up a few years ago their was visible damage/ yellowing on the print due to the fc.
 
I'm no chemist (and I don't even play one on TV), but the idea that shipping foamcore board or matboard in a cardboard box contaminates it and makes it unsuitable for preservation framing seems ludicrous, unless the boards are stored in the box for long periods of time. Besides, you can remove it from the evil box once it is delivered to your shop. Problem solved.
:icon9: Rick
Disclaimer: If you are reframing the original Declaration of Independence, all bets are off.

As to the original question, the only use for corrugated cardboard in my shop is recycling glass boxes as protective packaging or templates.
 
I never use cardboard either. Along the lines of the last post, sure, the good stuff comes in cardboard boxes, but it's not going to be in there as long as it's going to be next to cardboard when it's framed up and hanging on a wall for years on end. I think it's a personal preference, but I always like to see the dust seal over a filler which is flush with the back of the frame. Feels better, better quality, etc. I use the scraps of A/F foam-core to build it up, then, if need be, I finish the filling with a full sheet of 'coroplast' before the dust seal/Kraft paper goes on. If there is any need for a thinner filler than 3/16"/1/8" foam-core, then I use scraps (as large as possible, rather than assemble a mosaic) of acid free mat-board, then the 'coroplast, then the Kraft paper. I explain this to all my clients. They seem to appreciate the effort. Well; they keep coming back.
 
Barb Pelton said:
As a professional framer, I would never use cardboard as a filler. Period.
Click to expand...
Barb has nailed it IMHO.

"Professional" is the key word!

Cardboard or 'scraps of foamboard' or 'scraps of matboard' are not what I would call professional!
 
I recycle all the cardboard I get because it is great stuff for packing up the finished framed piece to protect the frame from getting damaged. That's about the closest I would ever come to using cardboard in the framing process. I agree with couple statements:
It's Evil Stuff and not professional!
 
Regular cardboard is too valuable to me as a weed barrier under the mulch in my garden! :D

If I need to fill the back out, I often use conservation corrugated. It's essential cardboard made from conservation quality paper pulp. It's light weight, pure white, and cheap.
 
The majority of customers treat us like we're professional framers and we deliver a professional quality product. No cardboard.

Once in while we get treated like a Tijuana street merchant and for the guy who wants it cheap, cheap and cheaper.....he might get a cardboard filler....from the dumpster....stained with spaghetti sauce..... (Just kidding about the dumpster and sauce).

Doug
 
One problem with using corrugagted material to fill space can be seen if the back of the frame gets damp and the sheets start to warp toward the glazing. Multiple sheets of corrugated board can warp together aggressively.


Hugh
 
osgood said:
...'scraps of foamboard'...are not what I would call professional!
Click to expand...
Ok, for "scraps", substitute "precision-trimmed, re-combined filler panels". What is wrong with piecing the intermediate layers of filler that neither contact the art nor constitute the final backing? Seems like an eco-friendly, efficient solution for this purpose, akin to making mouldings from finger-joined wood under a nice finish. What harm could come of it?
:kaffeetrinker_2: Rick
 
Rick,
Harm is not the issue for me. There is probably no harm!

I just consider using pieces as being a bit 'shonky' and 'cheap'!
That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it!

My pricing includes full pieces and I don't want to give my customers less than what they pay for!
 
osgood said:
My pricing includes full pieces and I don't want to give my customers less than what they pay for!
Click to expand...
My fitting prices include one layer of filler. Maybe I need to remember to tack on a "filler depth" charge when using deeper mouldings. If I were charging extra for it I would certainly use full pieces. Still, I like the idea of minimizing waste and maximizing use of perfectly good quality materials (when it doesn't degrade performance). I don't think its a rationalization to call this approach part of professionalism in this day and age.
:cool: Rick
 
Roach motel... need I say more? Try taking apart a 15 year old piece and chasing the critters across your bench. I even seal the edges of coroplast.
 
Pangolin said:
What if the piece you are framing IS cardboard?

(Yes, I did this - it was a cut refridgerator box a kid had painted with whiteout and black sharpie - his grandmother had it framed for him! You can't tell me that warrants "conservation" framing.)
Click to expand...

This reminds me of when I've framed art painted on Mexican
bark paper. It seems a bit silly to be using rag mats on something
that's painted on a substrate far more acidic than a regular
paper mat would be.

When I first learned to frame, we backed with cardboard,
but when the owners of that shop sold it and I had the choice,
I stopped buying cardboard. Since then, I back with either
regular foam core or artcare, and if an extra piece is needed
to fill, I make sure to charge for it. As was mentioned earlier,
you don't need to use two solid sheets extra on deeper
frames. I use one solid sheet , attaching strips of foam core
to get it to the depth I want, and then face the strips to the
foam backing that's behind the artwork.
 
shayla said:
This reminds me of when I've framed art painted on Mexican bark paper. It seems a bit silly to be using rag mats on something
that's painted on a substrate far more acidic than a regular
paper mat would be.
Click to expand...
There's another way to look at this:
If you do use rag or alpha pulp matboards, you won't be adding any more lignin/acid!

If you don't use rag or alpha pulp matboards, you will be adding more lignin/acid!

Question:
If you add more lignin/acid, will the deterioration be accelerated?
 
preservator said:
One problem with using corrugagted material to fill space can be seen if the back of the frame gets damp and the sheets start to warp toward the glazing. Multiple sheets of corrugated board can warp together aggressively.


Hugh
Click to expand...

I have seen deformed foamcore, AF or otherwise, whose "warpage" would put any cardboard to shame....;)

Moisture is an equal-opportunity warper.
 
All this talk of cardboard backing takes me back to the old days - when we used to buy pallets of 40x60 brown corrugated cardboard. It was kinda flimsy stuff and we all far preferred to cut up (and recycle, as it were) glass boxes because their corrugated was much sturdier!

Love it when Baer complains about brown corrugated backing with printing on it. No worse than brown corrugated without printing! LOL!

Only use it for shipping and transport nowadays - and give as much back to suppliers as they will take (ofttimes I unload the FC from the box while the delivery guy waits for me - dang thing takes up too much space!).

I use just about every "scrap" of acid free foam core as I can - I use it for many many applications - and if I want to plump out a backing I glue strips around the edge between two boards - that way no one will ever know!

And I cut my foam board nice and straight with my Keeton Kutter - worked in a shop once that cut FC on their paper cutter - crushed edges - yuck!

I wish Lineco would make a 2" wide water activated adhesive backing tape - that stuff with the aluminum barrier doesn't stick very well to a lot of things. Wouldn't that be great for some frame sealing jobs?
 
Create a Post
Back
Top