Opinions Wanted Tru Vue Conservation Clear

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MitchelC

MitchelC

MGF, Master Grumble Framer
Joined
Sep 19, 2010
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707
Loc
Charleston, SC
Business
Custom Framing
Does anyone carry Tru Vue Conservation Clear Glass? How do you like it? Is it a good seller? Any suggestions? What prices you suggest (16 x 20", 18 x 24", 24 x 30"). Thanks.
 
Hello. MitchelC...

I think the majority of framers on this forum carry TruVue's CC glass. It is my everyday glass for most jobs at my shop.

Probably about 60% of our jobs get Conservation Clear glass.
30% get Museum Glass
10% get regular clear picture glass.

Pricing will vary for every framer depending on what formula is used which should be based on your individual overhead costs. In general I would say that most framers mark up regular glass more than Conservation Clear glass and Conservation Clear glass more than Museum Glass. So whatever factor you use to mark up your regular clear glass expect to mark up premium glazing a bit less.
 
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that pretty much all of us on here carry it and use it copiously.
It is my default glass. I like most things about it and dislike a few minor things. It sells nicely for me because I pitch it. Any amount of protection for art is important to me.
You're on your own with pricing, hon. You're the one that needs to factor in your individual overhead and payroll costs. I could give you my strategy, but I'm mostly just guessing even in my own shop! I remember hearing about the TSAR Method a few years back: That Sounds About Right.

edie the numbercruncher goddess
 
Hello :) Curious question where as the majority of us do carry it.
Just looking into it or moving from production to shop, etc?
 
It's what we use almost all the time and our pricing quote includes it. Very rarely do we use regular glass, and I haven't ordered it in the past year. I stock 24 x 36, 32 x 40 and 36 x 48, and order 40 x 60 when needed. We also stock 32 x 40 Conservation reflection control, though I'm not much of a fan for non-glare, and our sales reflect that. Love the museum glass when the artwork is valuable enough to warrant the cost.
With conservation glass, store your off cuts carefully because the U.V. protective coating will scratch if you rub the edge of a piece of glass against it. You tell from that easily scratched side which side is which, even after you've used the side with the printing on it. Just take a blade to the outer edge which will be covered by the frame. The scratchy side faces the artwork
Miriam
 
Yes, we use it all the time; it's our baseline offering. We don't even offer plain glass except on commercial jobs. If a retail client requests plain glass (or "something cheaper" than CC) then we'll offer it, but otherwise CC is the default.

We have the three-panel display from Tru Vue (brilliant piece of marketing, BTW!). I'd say these days our mix is about 75% Conservation Clear, 15% Museum Glass, and 10% Conservation Reflection Control.
 
80% of my glass sales are Con Clear with regular glass being less than 1%. It's affordable and good.
 
Considering your location, you may be doing your customers a disservice by not offering it. It is not that much more than the cost of reg glass, and a much better value.

Like others have said, you have to be careful when cutting.

I usually stock 16x20, 24x36, 20x24, and 32x40.

I just wish I could get my MG %'s up more. Hard sell, even tho they love the look. Doing ok with AR tho.
 
nikfrz said:
It is not that much more than the cost of reg glass, and a much better value.
Click to expand...

Nearly 3 times my cost on clear and my everyday price for CC is the same as the super special deals offered during promotions. My customers are very selective about what they upgrade to conservation glass and matting. I only stock 32x40 and a couple times a year throw away a ton of scrap. I would stock more sizes if I sold more of it.
 
My answer is the same as everybody else's so far (well, except for Jeff R., he's always gotta be special, doesn't he!).

We won't even sell regular glass anymore, not matter if the customer asks for the cheapest. They understand, and its easy sell when you take away choices.

Even RC glass has unsold itself in the past couple of years. I don't even mention it during a sale. Those that absolutely-must-posistivly-have-to-have it kinds have led me to having a box of that lying around for more than a year. And the Reflection Control Acrylic - don't get me started! It all ends up as a "free upgrade" in our ready made frames.

The best part is when you only offer CC and Museum, sales of Museum go way up, especially on the smaller pieces. Again, regular AR glass is not part of our sales pitch.

Basically, limit your choices for your customer, you'll be more profitable and productive.

...and this also tends to be a regional thing.
 
MitchelC said:
Does anyone carry Tru Vue Conservation Clear Glass?
All serious framers carry CC.
How do you like it?
It's not us who like it, although we do, it's for art conservation.
Is it a good seller?
The best, and it's just a little more than clear.
Any suggestions?
About what? Using it? Cutting it? Selling it?
What prices you suggest (16 x 20", 18 x 24", 24 x 30").
Depends on your shop and how much you need to make.
Do you have a POS?
Thanks.
Click to expand...
You are welcome and welcome to the G, BTW
 
Jeff Rodier said:
Nearly 3 times my cost on clear and my everyday price for CC is the same as the super special deals offered during promotions. My customers are very selective about what they upgrade to conservation glass and matting. I only stock 32x40 and a couple times a year throw away a ton of scrap. I would stock more sizes if I sold more of it.
Click to expand...

Well who could honestly recommend using Conservation Clear when your selling Berkshire mats!!
 
Randy, I sell every type of mat made. It is only $40 to upgrade to full conservation in 32x40 which includes double alpha mats, acid free foam core, hinging or Lineco corners and conservation clear glass. It's not a large percentage of my business but I have 37 conservation framing jobs in the pipeline now. 26 of those are using OP3.

Just like I tell my customers, I will sell anything they are willing to pay for anytime. Most framing is just plain old wall decor and I don't pressure them to spend the extra couple of bucks when it's just a decoration.
 
It is our "go to glass" here as well. We do not offer "regular glass" CC and Museum.

I love selling M glass when the piece is right for it. Part of my sales tactic is to go through our glass choices, just like I do the mats and the molding.

Of course people see the quality and love it, but not everyone wants to pay for it :p
 
Thanks for all the info. 99% of all the glass i sell is the "regular" type clear glass. The ONLY thing that bothers me about regular glass it is the "green" tint, that changes the true color of a mat when placed over it. I am interested in True Vue Conservation CLEAR glass ONLY if it is "CLEAR", with NO green tint, and does NOT change the color of a mat when placed over one. True Vue Conservation Clear glass would cost me over 3 times the amount i pay for regular glass.
 
Default is conclear.

I also stock reflection control (and I do sell it although most on here don't like it)
and MG.

I only stock 32x40 and some 40x60 (as it is ordered per 2 lites)

That's all glass I offer. I haven't had jobs yet where I needed acrylic, so don't stock it.
 
MitchelC said:
Thanks for all the info. 99% of all the glass i sell is the "regular" type clear glass. The ONLY thing that bothers me about regular glass it is the "green" tint, that changes the true color of a mat when placed over it. I am interested in True Vue Conservation CLEAR glass ONLY if it is "CLEAR", with NO green tint, and does NOT change the color of a mat when placed over one. True Vue Conservation Clear glass would cost me over 3 times the amount i pay for regular glass.
Click to expand...

CC is definitely much clearer than plain glass, but you'd be hard pressed to find ANY glass that produces NO color shift whatsoever (at least at prices mere mortals can afford...).

Are your customers so price-sensitive that you can't just pass along the cost of the glass to them? I mean, here's what I do: I show them CC, CRC, and Museum glass. They then make their selection (or, in some cases, they ask me to quote all three). I quote them the total job price including the CC glass. Only if they seriously balk at that price would I even consider offering regular glass... and even then I'd do things like work with moulding selections or removing an extra mat before going down to regular glass.

These days, the only places I use regular glass are for commercial jobs, ready-mades, Value Line frames, and the occasional skinflint customer...
 
CC is our default witrh 87% jobs getting it. We stock CRC, but sell very little. Reg glass we stock 2.0 cheap stuff and TV Premium Clear for those where the customer balks at the price. We stock Musuem and about 5% of sales are that. We stock OP-3, but use very little.
 
MitchelC said:
... I am interested in True Vue Conservation CLEAR glass ONLY if it is "CLEAR", with NO green tint, and does NOT change the color of a mat when placed over one.
Click to expand...

When you look at the cut edge of an ordinary glass sheet, you can see the green tint clearly. But when you look at the cut edge of Conservation Clear and all other Tru Vue conservation glass products, there is no green tint. Tru Vue's UV-filtering coating is color-corrected, to neutralize the green tint of the glass.

That's not to say the color rendition is perfect, but the color shift is generally not noticeable in a frame, because the difference is slight, and all colors under the glass are affected the same way.

If you want something close to perfect color rendition, you have two choices: water white glass, which would cost much more than Conservation Clear, or framing grade (highest quality) acrylic, which probably would also cost more.

The usual reason to sell Conservation Clear glass is to offer the benefit of 99% UV filtering, which satisfies the ISO and IPI standards for preservation framing for the best protection available against damage from light. Customers are nearly always willing to pay the price difference for that protection, which is why nearly all framers offer it, and it is the 'default' standard for many - perhaps for the majority of retail framers in the USA.

True Vue Conservation Clear glass would cost me over 3 times the amount i pay for regular glass.
Click to expand...

If you compare the 2.0 mm glass commonly used in production, with the 2.5 mm Conservation Clear, there certainly would be a significant cost difference. However, if you compare the prices of 2.5 mm Premium Clear and Conservation Clear, the difference is less than 2X from all of my routine sources. I suggest you shop around, and remember to include shipping costs, if any, in your evaluation.





I am a satisfied customer and consultant for Tru Vue.
 
We sell fairly equal amounts of TV Premium Clear, Conservation Clear, and CC Reflection Control. Since opening in Dec. 2009, we have sold one piece of museum glass and do not keep it in stock. In our 'neck of the woods,' there is no demand for museum glass at all.
 
Jim Miller said:
If you compare the 2.0 mm glass commonly used in production, with the 2.5 mm Conservation Clear, there certainly would be a significant cost difference. However, if you compare the prices of 2.5 mm Premium Clear and Conservation Clear, the difference is less than 2X from all of my routine sources. I suggest you shop around, and remember to include shipping costs, if any, in your evaluation.
Click to expand...

No pallets just a good relationship with a vendor that really wants my business. My price for CC is one box at a time at the lowest price the vendor can charge even during glass promotions and still make a couple of bucks.
 
rodmurrow said:
In our 'neck of the woods,' there is no demand for museum glass at all.
Click to expand...

Demand? You don't really expect them to ask for Museum Glass, do you? If you do not sell it to your customers, it's fairly certain that they will not buy it. But if you show your customers the visual difference in gallery displays, and explain the published data in the Tru Vue catalog, consumer surveys have shown that some consumers will buy it, regardless of the market. If you make it your "default" glass and learn how to sell it, the percentage goes up.
 
TruVue shifted its premium products to a low iron glass a few years back and you could easily see the difference. There is much less color shift (Coke Bottle Effect) in the newer product.


OK, what's going on with the G? I only typed in the word "difference" once, and have double checked it in the edit...
 
We determined a few months agao that TruVue is not a low iron product but they changed the coating on the UV products to a color that would limit the color shift.
 
rodmurrow said:
We sell fairly equal amounts of TV Premium Clear, Conservation Clear, and CC Reflection Control. Since opening in Dec. 2009, we have sold one piece of museum glass and do not keep it in stock. In our 'neck of the woods,' there is no demand for museum glass at all.
Click to expand...

I know Jim already commented on it as well. Demand is what you create.
The previous frame shop before me, never sold MG, basically claiming the same thing; no demand, you would never be able to sell it in a place like Gloucester.

Ever since I started my frame shop, about 25% of the jobs have MG on it. I offer it. I show it. I use scrap pieces to put on the artwork to show the difference.
Most heard comment from customers; 'Oh, I didn't know there were different choices for glass'.
We are here to educate as well. People of course see the difference, and they also realize it will cost them more. I also price the full job with three different types of glass when asked what the difference is. You will be surprised how many people opt for MG.
 
We sell more CC then anything, although we stock True Vue prem clear, RC, CRC and Museum, mostly in 32 x 40. We always give the customer the choice, but when we explain the differances, most choose CC.
 
7717deb said:
... but when we explain the differances, most choose CC.
Click to expand...

I know you probably do use the TruVue displays, but be sure to both explain and show the differences. Seeing is believing.

Like Ylva said it is important to create the demand. If there is no showing of a product there will be no demand for it.

It is also important to not flinch when showing the product. If you believe the product to be of high quality and also to be a good value you will be able to sell it.

Reminds me of when I promoted an employee to manage our fine writing instrument department. Sales plummeted almost immediately until I rectified the situation. We sold Mont Blanc, Waterman, Parker, Cross, Dunhill, etc... writing instruments that ranged into the thousands of dollars. Little did I know that as good as this particular employee was she thought paying that much for a "pen" was sinful!!! Wish I knew her attitude before promoting her!

:faintthud:
 
Dave; I have worked in art supplies stores and also sold tons of very expensive pens. I have collected fountain pens for a long time and still write with them too (when I'm forced to do some handwriting....).

A good Dutch friend of ours owns a 'pen store' and does engraving as well. I just got one of the newer Waterman fountain pens in red..absolutely stunning!

Sorry for the Frankenthread Mitchell.....
 
MitchelC said:
I am interested in True Vue Conservation CLEAR glass ONLY if it is "CLEAR", with NO green tint, and does NOT change the color of a mat when placed over one.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, you are asking for the impossible... The problem with CC and color shift does not only come from the regular float (not water white) substrate. The reason is physics. It is impossible to make the sharp cut of the UV without affecting the visible light, at least not for the money that customers are willing to pay for picture framing glass. The effect is clearly visible when you place any "~99% UV Blocking" product over a white mat.

As Jim suggested, using a water white glass would preserve the true colors of the artwork. Using Anti-Reflective coated products on water white substrate would further enhance the color rendition. So if you absolutely need to be blocking the UV, without paying the premium for Anti-Reflective features (there are more product choices in that category), you would have to put up with the color shift...

BF
 
BalticFrames said:
... color shift does not only come from the regular float (not water white) substrate.
Click to expand...

True that. Yes, good quality acrylic and water white glass show the colors more accurately, but do we actually notice the difference from using ordinary glass or color corrected glass? Not usually, because all of the colors are affected similarly, so the color relationships under the glass remain about the same.

In most display environments, the color of illumination by artificial lighting sources is a more significant contributor to what we are calling 'color shift', as measured by the Color Rendering Index (CRI). Again, we usually do not notice the differences, except under extremely colored glass or illumination, because all of the colors in our range of view are affected similarly.

It might be useful to note that the appearance of colors we are discussing here, which is affected by the illumination and the glazing, changes our perception of the colors, but does not actually change the colors. These color rendition issues are not to be confused with the actual color shift that comes from damage caused by light and other factors, which causes a permanent change of the colors.

Some people are very concerned about accurate color rendition (perception), but are not so concerned about permanent color shift (damage), which seems backwards to me.
 
Tiny bit off-topic...

I've also heard some framers complain about the "orange peel" appearance of Tru-Vue's Conservation Clear. It's the slight rippled appearance caused by the applied coating.

Maybe I'm not discerning enough, but it really doesn't bother me, and I never notice it unless the light hits it in just the right way and I make a conscious effort to look at the glass, not the art. Is this just a framer thing? Has anyone had a customer complain about it or decide not to use it because of that?

Back to the topic at hand, I'm with others who aren't bothered by any cast to the glass, within reason. as long as its Coke-bottle green, would anyone really notice unless half the picture and mat were left unglazed. As Jim pointed out, sure the colors may change slightly, but the mats and artwork change the same way, so the color relationship is unchanged.

Oh, and there was an original question:

Does anyone carry Tru Vue Conservation Clear Glass? Yes.

How do you like it? Is it a good seller? I like it a lot, and yes. Most stores I know of sell it roughly 80-90 percent of the time, with a smattering of other glazing options rounding it out. A few stores I know of sell Museum Glass about 25% of the time.

Any suggestions? Make it your default glass, use it automatically unless you upgrade. Don't even make a mention of it; if the big box stores can sell it, so can you.

What prices you suggest (16 x 20", 18 x 24", 24 x 30") Only you can make that call. Use your POS pre-loaded prices as a starting point and take it from there.
 
been using it since the begining. dont like it anymore!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Hear Less TV!!!!! Too #### red that goes for Museum too. Love AR. Less needs a replacement CC & Mus

Still selling it by the ton - not for long......... wheres me Unseal?

Holy Cow Less is getting old
 
How do you like it? Is it a good seller

decided some years ago to only carry that...NO non-uv stuff
it 1-simplified buying; 2-simplified which piece of scrape I got out to recut; 3-made for a good selling point that I was doing the best available to help preserve their artwork by not even carrying that other stuff. dont remember that I ever got an objection to it(I ALSO have a dy-no-mite couple of before/afters at the counter showing the rigours of sunshine on prints/photos--AND a couple on the effects of regular/acid mats-which I also do NOT carry)...try it, you'll soon like it!:thumbsup:
 
Jim Miller said:
... do we actually notice the difference from using ordinary glass or color corrected glass? Not usually, because all of the colors are affected similarly, so the color relationships under the glass remain about the same.
Click to expand...

Dear Jim, you would not be surprised to find me disagreeing with you on this. In defending the use of organic UV absorbers, you dismiss the actual and perceptible color change that occurs due to the absorbers’ distortion of the visible light as unimportant. I am sure that most artists, whose art we are in the business of showcasing, as well as matboard makers (with their many shades of White) will ardently disagree with the statement that such color distortion does not matter…

Not to stray from the topic of this thread – the popularity of Conservation Clear – within this premise I actually agree that that it is a useful product if it makes framers money. Whether it is necessary in most framing jobs is a different topic...
 
BalticFrames said:
Not to stray from the topic of this thread – the popularity of Conservation Clear – within this premise I actually agree that that it is a useful product if it makes framers money. Whether it is necessary in most framing jobs is a different topic...
Click to expand...

Are you suggesting that UV protection is not necessary? It seems to me that the majority of customers would accept a small amount of color change (which they probably would never notice if it weren't pointed out) and know that their art is protected from fading and other damage caused by long-term UV exposure.

If you are asserting that UV filtering is usually necessary, when would you suggest it?
 
Here's my take on Conservation Clear glass. We used to sell paper and archival matting, then switched to only archival. No one complained and many were happy because they realized they were getting a quality job.

Now, after reading all these posts, I ask myself why don't I kick regular glass out the door and not even offer it? Except for our in-house-made frame kits and poster specials, why should I even stock regular glass?

On the other hand, I've had it up to "here" with Museum Glass. Yes, it is 99% UV filtering, as is Tru-Vue ConClear, but it scratches if you look at it wrong. Once the case and half that I have in stock is gone, I'm kicking that out the door, too! Because I believe in competition to keep the Market--ANY Market, not just picture framing!--strong, I'm switching to Art Glass UV for all my high-end framing. ArtGlass UV is 92% UV blocking and what's 7% between friends? Yeah, maybe if someone comes in with an Andy Warhol silkscreen--again--I'll order Museum Glass for it, but I am finding ArtGlass UV to be the best thing to come down the pike for framing in a long while!

As far as the "orange peel" of ConClear, I kinda like it. It makes me look like a real expert when someone comes in with a framed piece and asks if it's CC or not. I tilt my head at the work and declare "Yes it is!" and they go "Ooo! How does she know that? She's amazing!" Hee, hee!

Sell it, baby!
Wendy
The Art Corner
Salem, MA
 
FramerDave said:
If you are asserting that UV filtering is usually necessary, when would you suggest it?
Click to expand...

Dave, it would not be fair to the topic of this threat to stray into discussing the merits of UV blocking and how much of it is indeed "necessary" - but I would be happy to do it in a different thread. But the main point of this discussion is clear - if customers buy CC and it makes framers money, then it's a useful product to have in any portfolio. Especially, since it occupies a special niche in the glass "pyramid", and there are no known competitive products out there...
 
BalticFrames said:
– the popularity of Conservation Clear – within this premise I actually agree that that it is a useful product if it makes framers money. Whether it is necessary in most framing jobs is a different topic...
Click to expand...

It is our default glass, and I look at it mainly from a liability standpoint/business decision. We are the "experts" customers trust, and know better to use currently accepted minimum framing standards in USA. (mats that wont break down or acid burn the art, glazing that will greatly reduce fading and preserve the art longer, etc) The big boxes have the same minimum standards, which says a lot IMO.

Many other countries are slowly changing in the same way we did 10 or 20 years ago.

I don't want a customer coming back in 5 years demanding to know why we sold them a defective product, or having to replace someones mats or art.

Whether it is TV brand in USA or the competing brand Baltic from Latvia is now selling, I still see UV glazing as a good liability reduction and business decision. It also reduces the space needed in our back room :)

Just another opinion,
Mike
 
Markoc said:
Hi Wendy, who's your source for the Artglass?
Thanks!
Click to expand...
Omega Moulding imports Artglass from Germany. I drive a car made in Germany. The Germans don't make anything that is bad. Except, well, FOOD! I HATE sausage and saurkraut! Hee, hee!

Wendy
The Art Corner
Salem, MA
 
wendy lang said:
Omega Moulding imports Artglass from Germany. I drive a car made in Germany. The Germans don't make anything that is bad. Except, well, FOOD! I HATE sausage and saurkraut! Hee, hee!

Wendy
The Art Corner
Salem, MA
Click to expand...

Wendy, thanks for the source.
 
We sell mainly ordinary 2mm glass everywhere in Australia. We dream of making a UV glass our standard default but if you had to pay the price for Tru Vue that we Aussies do, then your %'s would change. MAybe that is why we use lots of UV acrylic - it is cheaper.
We sell a lot of CC on smaller jobs but once the item is large, the price difference is too much and puts people off.
 
But guess what, we have occassionally sold Schott glass (the good stuff) and that is really, really pricey!! But it is an interesting product, even if you cannot cut it yourself.
 
I'm getting into this discussion kind of late, but CC is my default because:
1. I like the 2.5 mm glass because it is a little thicker, and less prone to breakage, and easier to handle.
2. It has 99% uv protection, which is better than the 97% standard.
3. It is easy to cut; Just score it on the side without the film. I don't get scratches anymore, now that I'm careful.
4. I carry / stock 7 sizes, and price it according to the size I cut from. This way I normally toss the scraps unless it is a really strange size. {I would keep the scrap from a 10" x 40" piece}. IMO the customer understands this easier than pricing by square inch, and the square inch pricing does not always allow for strange shapes. {i need to cut the 12 inch square out of a 12 x 16 piece of glass, so I need to charge for the 12 x 16 glass.)
5. I even sell CC when someone comes in to have something re-framed and brings in the glass and mats. I just take a razor blade and scrape the edge of their glass, and if there is not a film, I say "this glass no longer meets the current framing preservation standard and I recommend you go with CC..." and I have always replaced the glass.
The biggest problem with CC is that it weights approximately 1.1 pounds per square foot, so a full box weighs approximately 55 pounds. {I don't know what OSHA would say about an employee lifting a full box...)

My second glass is museum. I charge approximately 4 times as much for museum, as CC, for the same size. It is also easy to work with as long as you are careful. {lift, don't slide). I currently stock 4 sizes. (16 x 20, 22 x 28, 18 x 24, and 32 x 40) I would probably stock more if they carried sizes smaller than 16 x 20, but they don't., so i have to cut it down 22 x 28's to get 11 x 14's. (I just hate having to wrap and store small glass pieces.) The biggest problem with Museum Glass is probably me because I think it is expensive and that probably comes across in my selling. However I need to remind myself how much better it looks.

I have the Tru-Vue display of CC and Museum that I show, but I have found having done my own with 2 different 4 x 5 black and white, night scene photographs, both framed with black fillets, and black mats in silver frames, does better. We walk over and I take the one with museum glass and take it off the wall and hand it to the customer. They can hold the difference. I mention that it does cost more, (I give an approximate dollar amount, not a percentage), and they need to determine if the better viewing is worth the difference.

I bought a case of regular glass 2 years ago, and I have used one piece. I don't offer it, so Janet will probably have to get rid of it when I'm gone.
 
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