Stopping poster mount bowing?

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Tommy P

Tommy P

MGF, Master Grumble Framer
Joined
Nov 16, 2003
Posts
870
Loc
Mid North Indiana
I really should know the answer to this and searching has been no luck so........

If I dry mount my customers 32 x 24 posters for her kids room and put a foam core type hanger on them I assured her that in time the whole thing will be bowed. She does not want to pay for framing.

I believe if I mount something to the other side it will alleviate this problem. Right? And what would that be? That will add cost, which of course she will not be thrilled about. But I want to do this correct. Or do I just do it and not worry about it? That doesn't seem right..........

I think I'm trying to make something very simple into something hard....
 
Or sell her Colorplak, which is an excellent option for decorative art when they don't want a frame or when they need a rugged application (e.g. for hanging in a workshop).
 
Tommy P said:
She does not want to pay for framing.

.... if I mount something to the other side it will alleviate this problem. .... That will add cost, which of course she will not be thrilled about.
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Andrew, by the time she pays for a 24x32 Colorplak, she could've paid for the framing to begin with. Sounds like $$ was the issue here.
 
Her son is at that age where in two years he may have no interest in the subject matter of these posters. Thats why she does not want to invest in framing.

I just sent her home with $450 worth of framing on B & W of her boys. So she is a good customer.....
 
You could mount it to foamcore, and on the back glue a recessed 'strainer' made of
1/2" x 3/4" doorstop or parting bead moulding available inexpensively at hardware store. This gives a nice float effect that's almost as classy looking as framed. ;)
:cool: Rick
 
I just had a gentleman pick up a very large map we had drymounted a year or so ago. It had warped pretty good/bad and we put it back in the heated vaccum press and then glued it to a strainer a 1/2 inch shorter than the entire dimension so it didn't show. The strap hangers were attached to the wooden strainer.

That was the least expensive way we could figure to solve the problem. And by-the-way, the poster catalogs you order from make excellent weights for this sort of thing !!!!!!

Lori
 
You could also mount the posters on Gator board - sure it costs more to buy the raw materials and it cuts like a knife if you slide your fingers down a freshly trimmed edge - but no messing around with countermounting or strainers. And no bowing.

I always tell customers that if something inconsequential is mounted onto foam for a brief period of time and they develop a real fondness for the item - "We can always frame it for you in the future."
 
Counter mounting is from the old wet mounting days. That is when we used non curling vegetable paste and dampened the poster. Poster would shrink and curl the mounting board, so we would mount Kraft paper to the back to overcome the curling.

Myself, if you are having warping problems with dry mounting, I think it is the surface you are using, like foam core.

I think Framar has the best answer to your questions.

One of the reasons people pay to have their posters framed, is so they won't warp. It is feasible that you could spend a heck of a lot more in time and materials attempting to come up with a poster mount that won't warp, than you would spending the same on just mounting it and framing it with aluminum and regular glass.

What your customer is asking you to do is come up with a display method for her poster that will cost you more in time and effort than she is willing to pay. Usually for a guaranteed non-warped presentation, framing it is the least expensive way to go.

I would be very surprised if there exists a less expensive way. If you figure using Nielsen OEM-11 series, regular foam core and regular glass, a two foot by three foot comes out to around $14.00-$16.00 cost of materials, depending on how you buy. Using Gator board and wood strips may be slightly less, not so sure about the time, which should be about fifteen to twenty minutes labor for framing it. Could you guarantee it wont warp over time if you don't frame it?

John
 
Been mounting RC prints on foamcore recently, have found preheating front and back of the foamcore and the back of the art prior to mounting completely solves the curving problem.

I was able to straighten out some of my initial highly curved, non preheated attempts by reheating the backside of the board against the platten for a couple minutes, then cooling the board on a flat table under some weights, coffee table art books work good for this. Somehow the most recently heated side wants to develop a concave curl, and one good curl leads to another, or something.
 
there is one less expensive way - skip the glass.

When they want the cheapest that will actually look OK on the wall and stay flat we drymount on foamcore and put a contract black or silver 11 profile on it. No glass or laminate. The only problem here is that the springs in the back may give pressure marks showing on the front. To avoid this we slip 1 inch strips of scrap matboard between the springs and the foamcore.

You may be able to get a foamcore only mount flat in your shop but just wait until they hang it on a cold wall in a warm room.
 
Wonderful replys! I think I'll just mount them, give them some 1 1/2" roofing nails and say " have at it"!

I think the word "Framing" scares the crap out of some people! Don't know why.............
 
Countermount. Also use weights for about 8 hours. We use both and also use some stick on hangers for those cheapies. Double tape the stick-on stuff.

You will be surprised at the number of these that come back for a complete frame job.

Jack Cee
 
Framar said:
You could also mount the posters on Gator board - sure it costs more to buy the raw materials and it cuts like a knife if you slide your fingers down a freshly trimmed edge - but no messing around with countermounting or strainers. And no bowing.

I always tell customers that if something inconsequential is mounted onto foam for a brief period of time and they develop a real fondness for the item - "We can always frame it for you in the future."
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BINGO!

I sell a lot of black-Gator-mounted maps and posters. We put a couple of stick-in hangers on the back (no more adhesive hangers for me) and we often laminate them with something like linen-finish Beinfang Finish Guard.

That alternative costs about half the price of complete framing, it is lightweight, fairly durable, and easy. No warps. And, as Framar said, it can be framed later.
 
Countermount - under weight for 8 hours ??

Time is money
- I don't have any work table available for 8 hours
- counter mount takes too long

-measure the poster and cut foamcore and drymount tissue
-tack tissue and print and put in press for 2 minutes
-2 minutes is enough time to cut aluminium frame, join 3 sides
-out of press and cool face down for 1 minute
-slip into frame, add 4th side, springs, hanging wire (no glass)

done in about 5 minutes - customer very happy with price and service - hangs well and won't come back bowed

this customer that got one mounted on foamcore at another shop that bowed then got one plaque mounted at the big box which was so heavy it pulled the nail out of the wall, fell and the corner broke off is now happy and will be back with more framing.

The economic success of this business is in getting the job done without dicking around for an hour in a way that solves the customers needs turning them into a repeat customer whose business grows as they learn about better framing and how it enhances their home. As long as they are trying unsucessfully to get satisfactory cheap framing they will not graduate to better, more expensive framing. I can count hundreds of regular customers that came in looking for cheap framing for their own or their kids posters. I've had people say "you can't frame this cheaply, can you?" I always answer "yes I can." And once they've got the cheap stuff done and hung and it looks OK and it doesn't have problems they come back looking for the good stuff for the living room and master bedroom.

Yes, I can frame it cheaply - and make darn good money doing it. I've seen so many frame shops fail because of framer's pride.
 
Excellent point and idea Bandsaw!!
 
GatorBoard would be my choice in this instance. It is more expensive, has a greater weight per sq. ft, and is a lot more difficult to cut, but it is much more likely to stay flat once you get it on the wall.

Counter mounting can be an alternative, but the density and “porosity” of the paper to be mounted must be fairly similar on both sides, or it may still develop a bow (albeit a bit less if it were not counter mounted at all).

Even though a single sided, mounted sheet of foam board leaves the shop flat, there is no guarantee that it will remain that way. Changes in ambient humidity may cause even the flattest piece to bow.
 
I agree that Gator Board is the way to go.

However I just mounted a poster for someone who had to have it today and, not having any Gator in stock, used 3/16" Fom-cor and counter dry mounted a sheet of black kraft paper. Still has a slight bow, but not nearly as bad as if it wasn't countermounted. I warned the customer that there would be some bow even with a counter mount.
 
a 24 x 36 contract al frame with hardware costs about 7 bucks.

Is Gatorboard or countermounting much or any cheaper? plus some kind of hanger.

And it's still hard to hang straight.

And I get to say:

"Yes, that includes a frame!"
 
stop poster mount bowing

Try attaching dbl sided hook-n-loop in all 4 crns. Customer gets home , pulls backing paper off each tab, sticks to wall, VOILA no moving little bowing and can come off wall anytime.
Skip
TipTop Frame Arts Ctr
Plattsburgh, Ny
www.tiptopframes.com
518-561-5266
 
I generally use the metal push-in-the-tabs hangers, but the adhesive will also work. On either one I put a small strip of 3M filament tape on the back. Those suckers won't come off ever.

I like the velcro thought too, but the only downfall is the stick-um on the wall. I suppose it's just as easy to remove the adhesive and repaint as it is to patch a small nail hook hole.
 
TGFU said:
Jim, Why have you stopped using the adhesive hangers? I learned the hard way that you can't put them on anything very large.
Click to expand...

Me, too. But I decided that more size and weight only hastens the inevitable failure.

Starting with the experience of failed adhesive mounts years ago, I have become a true believer in using mechanical devices, instead of adhesive devices, for anything under stress.
 
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