Question Signature Mats

[Bill Henry-]

We do, maybe, two Wedding Signature mats in the course of a month.

I just had a guy requesting one. He asked me how wide a mat should be to leave space for 60 signatures. He asked if there was an equation I used. I don’t.

He wanted a mat to surround a 13 x 19 photo. We played around for a while with some ready made frames to give him(us) some visual clues. He suggested a 2-1/2” width; I thought that width would be too small. I suggested that a 4-1/2” mat would serve him better; he thought that that was too much.

His suggestion would leave ~185 in2 [(18 x 24) – (13 x 19)]; mine would leave ~369 in2 of space.

I fully realize that if someone merely signs their name, “Bill Henry” that that is going to take up a whole lot less space than if someone were to sign it, “Bill and Carolyn Henry | Best Wishes for a Future Life Together | 'Remember the Alamo' ”.

And, I fully realize that if someone scribes their name and/or message in 10 point script that that will take up less room than if someone were trying to mimic the size of John Hancock’s flourish.

And, I know enough to suggest that people leave 1/2” around the perimeter of the mat to allow for future framing, not to use the “real” photo, what kind of pen to use, keeping sweaty drinks off of the mat, etc.

But does anyone have a rule of thumb that they use to calculate the width of the mat for such occasions?

My thoughts are ~4-1/2 square inches (a space 1-1/2” x 3”). Too much; too little? Any suggestions?

 

[GUMBY GCF]

We average 5-6 a month depending on the month.
5x7 or 8x10 photo in a 20x 24 for 250 signatures easy.

Here is what happens the first people who sign will set the tempo for the rest. Usually the wedding party & Family go first. Have them sign it before putting it out at the reception.
So I tell them to sign to a size 1/4" to 3/8" that will help fit the # they are looking for on the mat. As it fills up people will adjust to fit into smaller spaces.
A 20x24 is a good size to hang in most homes not to big not to small.
That's our take on it.

Some others will have good ideas also.

Good time to use sell a kobe, Cathedral w/round corners, Persian or an oval opening

 

[Dave]

If Jim does about a half gross of these a year I will certainly defer to his judgment...

Especially since he has already deferred all other Questions of the Universe to me.

 

[Nickerbocker]

60 guests....wel depends on if they are only going to sign thier names or include well wishes for the happy couple. This might sound like over kill but I have found that if the matting is small then all you get are name. I work with a photographer and we frame a 5x7 in a 22x28 frame. Then people have the freedom to include thier glad tidings instead of just thier names.

Nick

 

[Bob Doyle]

Since the first person to sign sets the tone maybe you could get someone to sign it before it goes up on the easel, or whatever? Maybe a calligrapher could write Congrats!! or something to give the guests started?

 

[Framing Queen]

I would have suggested a 5" mat for 60 signatures. I did one for 150 guests and cut a 7" mat. When they brought it back to be framed, the entire mat was completely full! AND, for no charge, I always include a "cheap black frame" to be sure no one signs in the margins.

 

[Bill Henry-]

… the first people who sign will set the tempo for the rest. Usually the wedding party & Family go first. Have them sign it before putting it out at the reception.

Excellent idea! I had never considered that the first signature would set the standard for those to follow.

I would have suggested a 5" mat for 60 signatures. I did one for 150 guests and cut a 7" mat. When they brought it back to be framed, the entire mat was completely full! AND, for no charge, I always include a "cheap black frame" to be sure no one signs in the margins.

We considered including a cheap ready made with a signature mat, but instead, we surround the perimeter of the mat with a strip of “Magic Tape” (Scotch #811 - 1/2”). This seems to keep people from signing too close to the edge, too, and is doesn’t encourage them to use our cheap ready made as the final product. Even if they come back for another more appropriate frame, we figured that they’d keep the simple black one for something else and we’d lose a sale either way.

And, especially if we don't like the customer, we sometimes make the overall mat a non-standard size, so they are forced into a custom size when they come back.

We wants to gets them back and spend oodles of money on a new fancy, expensive frame, you betcha!

 

[framelady64]

I always leave at least four inches so they can have room to play with.I also get them to pick out a beautiful frame at the time and fasten it in temporarily.That way everybody gets to see the frame and almost always gets me more business.

 

[neilframer]

I did one recently for a client who was going to bring the signed mat and photo back for custom framing. I gave the client all sorts of instructions to have the signers not sign too close to the edge and even gave them a small piece of matboard so the signers could rest there hand on the matboard and not smudge the mat as they signed.

It worked out great except for one joker who signed on the back as a joke that he was "bringing up the rear".
I cut a mat for the backside with a window covered by a small piece of plexi to show the signature on the back so if they wanted to turn the frame over they could see it. I didn't tell the client and surprised them with it and they loved it.

 

[Framar]

It worked out great except for one joker who signed on the back as a joke that he was "bringing up the rear".
I cut a mat for the backside with a window covered by a small piece of plexi to show the signature on the back so if they wanted to turn the frame over they could see it. I didn't tell the client and surprised them with it and they loved it.

Cool solution, Neil - but that goes back to my standard recommendation that the bride and groom appoint some trusted soul to watch over the signature mat and guide the signers. Aunt Battleaxe is great in this role.

 

[William Ross]

We use a "V" groove around the photo

We have found that by placing a "v" groove around the picture and either a second outside mat (discard later) or tape around the outside keeps the writting where it belongs. I'm not sure you can tell what size mat is needed, but the bigger the border -- the bigger the writting.

 

[Framing:]

Did one yesterday at a wedding in Italy for a friend, (Polish/Italian wedding) I went around and got the signatures and used a HB lead pencil to avoid the fading issue.

12" x 16" Mat, with cathedral window 5" x 7" (T 3.5" L/R 3.5" B 5.5")

There was plenty of room for 42 signatures, most of people/guests only just signed their first name, nobody at the wedding had the same first name so I suggested in the best way I could because of my lack of Italian or Polish they only sign their first name as it would be more personal.

The mat could possibly if needed have taken another 8 to 10 signatures without becoming to crowded.

I will ask the couple for a list of the guests names and attached it to the back of the frame fro future reference.

 

[Framar]

I will ask the couple for a list of the guests names and attached it to the back of the frame fro future reference.

Brilliant idea!

 

[Bill Henry-]

I was thinking about the problem of pre-determining space for signature mats over the weekend (goes to show what a pathetic social life I have), and was playing around with the height limitations that Gumby suggested in Post #2, FramingQueen in #6, and Framing #12.

I realize that his is by no means scientific, but I went through a bunch of credit card processing slips and measured the height of the signatures. While there were a few that were under 1/2” (I can see that someone with a name of Stanislaw Michelovich Cieziemiwicz would tend to keep his signature small), the vast majority of them were over 1/2”. If encourage to, I suppose that most people could coerced into keeping the height around 3/8”, but I think that 1/4” signature would be very difficult to sign and unnatural for most folks.

I messed around in Photoshop using 3/8” and 1/2” scripts and left what I thought was a reasonable amount of white space around the signatures (again not scientific), and determined the area needed to accomplish that using a single line of text.

If a “normal” husband an wife were to simply sign their name ~3/8” high, they would (from my guesswork) need ~2-1/4 square inches of space; at 1/2” high, ~ 4-1/2 square inches.

Using those criteria (guesswork, remember), Framing’s belief that 50 people could have signed his 12 x 16” mat (5 x 7 open) works out to be 157 divided by 50 = 3.14 square inches. That falls between Gumby’s 3/8” and my 1/2”.

However, using Gumby’s 20 x 24” mat with 8 x 10 opening for 250 potential signatures leaves the amount of space needed as 1.6 square inches (480 – 80) = 400 divided by 250 = 1.6 square inches. In my way-less-than-scientific-opinion, I don’t believe that that amount of space would result in a comfortably uncrowded mat.

FramingQueen's suggestion of a 5” mat (assuming an 18” x 20” overall mat with an 8 x 10 opening) for sixty signatures works out to be ~4.67 square inches; her 7” mat (assuming 22 x 24” with same size photo) for 150 guests works out to be ~ 3 square inches per signature. Both are close to my “guesstimate” of space needed. (Actually very generous if couples sign the mats as couples rather than individual taxpayers filing separately).

In any event, when estimating the amount of mat needed for wedding mats, I think I shall give the “generous” guess of between 2-1/4 and 4-1/2 squre inches per signature as a guide.

 

[GUMBY GCF]

You asked I told you.
You did it on a computer with a calculator.
Ours were actually signed & framed.
That is probabaly how it comes out different.

Remember that just because they invite 200-250 people not all show or will sign.

WXXXd cXXXd do wXXh fXXer bXXn coXXXers & mXXe mXXXXXics.
wXXre aXe tXe smilie faCES AT?

Bye bill

 

[Framar]

A lot probably depends on whether the signatories have been into the drinks - I'll bet well lubricators signers sign bigger than teetotalers.

 

[Bill Henry-]

You asked I told you.
You did it on a computer with a calculator.
Ours were actually signed & framed.
That is probabaly how it comes out different.

Remember that just because they invite 200-250 people not all show or will sign.

I admit that my "research" was not at all scientific. And, if couples signed the mat, that would dramatically reduce the number of "blocks" of space needed.

WXXXd cXXXd do wXXh fXXer bXXn coXXXers & mXXe mXXXXXics.
wXXre aXe tXe smilie faCES AT?

Bye bill

Yeah, well, psthbbbbt! to you, Pal.

… even though I just finished reading the Alpha Dog post and should be more mellow than I am.