Opinions Wanted Shadow image of artwork on inside of Glass?

LeMieuxGalleries

CGF, Certified Grumble Framer
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I'm finally going to pose this question after seeing it here and there when re-doing old frame jobs...why is there sometime a "ghost image" of the artwork on the interior of the glass...a film that can be cleaned off...it doesn't seem to have to do with the framing materials because the current pieces are all framed with acid free materials. Is it an off-gassing because of certain mediums? These are fairly expensive lithographs.
 
There's a LOT of discussion here and on the interwebs about this. Newer prints can "offgas" and leave chemical deposits on glass. It's recommended that freshly printed pieces air out for at least a week (in the open - not stacked/rolled/in a flatfile, etc) so the printing chemicals can dissipate.

On older pieces, you will also occasionally find ghosting. This is caused by atmospheric pollutants - I believe specifically chlorine. It ends up as a "salt" on the inner surface of glass. I KNOW there are conservators here who can give you the exact breakdown of what's happening, but that's the layman's version. :)
 
I've seen this on older prints and even paintings on paper. New stuff too. Mostly screen prints, not so much on inkjet prints. Ever see ink eat through the paper and stain the backing? Crazy!

One week open time to cure could be helpful but I've had prints that are years old and still noticeably stinky. Enough to smell up the whole room (Shepard Fairey).

Could whitening agents on mats and paper cause this too? (A reason why the most pompous use unbuffered mats)

Dont the conservators recommend opening and cleaning the inside every so often for reasons like this? Other than looking visually poor is it dangerous?
 
The interesting thing about these prints (and others in the past) is that it is an EXACT ghosting of where the ink is. NO other area of the paper or mat has this effect, only right opposite of the ink image...so yes, I guess an off gassing from the medium, but I was curious if there were environmental factors that exacerbate this or just par for the course on some mediums...
 
Indeed, I opened a "print" which was at least 40 years old if not much older last week, a somewhat detailed image, and on the glass was a detailed mirror image. If its general outgassing, how does it settle so accurately? Its eerie...
 
I am resuscitating this old thread because I've just opened up a 1982 print by an Indigenous artist that has the "ghost image" phenomenon. Previous theories on what causes ghosting on the inside of the glass have included residue from condensation from the dark areas of the print and/or offgassing from the various inks, dyes and solvents used in the printmaking process.

Except this print is an embossing--there is no ink and no dark areas on the white heavy printmaking paper yet the ghost image is sharp and crisp. A similar image to the print can be found here so you can see the technique for yourself: http://www.lunds.com/Auctions/EthnoWorld/3213/Prints/2147616807/0/ LUNDS Auctioneers & Appraisers Peruse an eclectic selection of North & South American Native Arts, and Asian and African furnishings, carpets and rugs. This promises to a worldly experience. - Prints

I'm guessing the paper itself or the backing backing behind it was offgassing and the salt precisely accumulated depending on how close the paper was to the inside of the glass.
 
I had a 'ghost dog' on the inside of the glass where a pastel had been pressing on it for 70 years. 😂
The actual drawing seemed none the worse for it.

I've often seen the faint outline of mat openings on glass. Usually older pictures. And some older types
of matboard do seem to 'sweat' and leave a mottlely pattern on the glass.
 
As an aside, oil pastels should never touch glass. Glass is porous. I recommend that you discard any glass that has a pastel ghost on it. If you are using a mat to prevent the pastel from touching the glass, I suggest you have an inner mat which isn't visible...Cut the opening at least 1/4 inch larger than the inner mat that is showing. This will create a "well" into which small particles of pastel can fall if the artist hasn't used enough fixative. This will reduce the risk of a particle of oil pastel coming in contact with any mats that are showing.
 
Glass isn’t porous; oil pastels don’t need fixing.
Hi Robo,
Sorry for the wording in my statement that "glass is porous". Liquids don't penetrate glass, and that from that perspective it isn't porous. HOWEVER, the surface of glass is "somewhat porous" as you are cleaning it. That's why acid-free glass cleaners are recommended!
I have framed numerous pastels over many years. Depending on the typre of pastel used, many can indeed flake off if not properly fixed. Some pastels need little or no fixing, but many do...so I guess we'll have to disagree on that one.
 
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It was SOP to cover chalk pastels with non-glare glass and tape the edges back in the day. The artists were also using pulp wood illustration board, and corrugated cardboard supports.
Doesn't mean it was the best choice of substrates or the finest in preservation framing. We have been learning from our mistakes.

Metal and glass are true vapor barriers, hence non-porous.
Residue from acid etching doesn't prove porosity, it just means the residue has accumulated on the irregular surface of the glass.
In order to be porous, the liquid or gas has to actually penetrate the surface and get into and through the physical structure of the subject material.
Acid residue is superficial and can be fairly easily removed from etched glass.

Back to the question of the afterimage on the inside of the glass.
I usually see this when the support or mount is a pulpwood board.
Like most of the damaging causes in framing, I think this boils down to oxidation and how the chemicals in pigments and how variably they are applied to the substrate, the composition of the matting and support materials, and a source of energy and oxygen are present.
I also think that this is not a single defined process, and can involve a number of variables in differing quantities. The physical shape of the monochromatic embossed paper could differentially filter the acidic gasses and cause the image transfer. Think of it as incredibly slow photography with the art being the negative.
 
TruVue glass cleaner is a repackaged version of Sparkle Glass Cleaner.

I get it at my local Ace Hardware for around $12.00/gallon, but it has been a while, so maybe more.
 
I own a crayon drawing that was done in the 1930's. I framed it when I bought it about 20 years ago. I recently reframed it and was surprised to see it was still off-gassing, fogging on the inside the glass that mirrored the image. Maybe some things never stop off-gassing.
 
I own a crayon drawing that was done in the 1930's. I framed it when I bought it about 20 years ago. I recently reframed it and was surprised to see it was still off-gassing, fogging on the inside the glass that mirrored the image. Maybe some things never stop off-gassing.
That could be from items in the frame package other than the art.
 
I'm finally going to pose this question after seeing it here and there when re-doing old frame jobs...why is there sometime a "ghost image" of the artwork on the interior of the glass...a film that can be cleaned off...it doesn't seem to have to do with the framing materials because the current pieces are all framed with acid free materials. Is it an off-gassing because of certain mediums? These are fairly expensive lithographs.
It is out gassing from the glass cleaner that was used when it was last framed
 
ntutoes It is out gassing from the glass cleaner that was used when it was last framed
Hi, and welcome to the G.

The residual acidity from glass cleaner would be minimal at worst, and would probably be used up rather quickly with the oxygen supplied in the frame.

The outgassing is cause by the oxidation of organic materials within the frame. This process is ongoing with the speed of the oxidation in direct proportion to the availability of oxygen and energy.
 
...........................The outgassing is cause by the oxidation of organic materials within the frame. This process is ongoing with the speed of the oxidation in direct proportion to the availability of oxygen and energy.
The most dramatic example of outgassing I ever experienced was from an old needlepoint.

When freed from the cloudy glass the piece took on a whole new lifeI

I still have the glass to explain the phenomena.
 
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