Kirstie
PFG, Picture Framing God
We had a customer in today wanting digital restoration on a convex photo. We sent her to a local photo studio to have it photographed first. Would there have been any other way to accomplish this?
Scanning a convex photo for restoration
- Thread starter Kirstie
- Start date
jim_p
SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
It would really depend. First of all, does the *result* need to be convex too, or do they want it printed flat? Also, how "convex" is it (i.e. degree of curvature?) Any idea how it was made in the first place?
Part of the problem with this is that whether you scan the piece or photograph it, you're basically taking a 2-dimensional shot of an image that is curved in three dimensions. If you're going to do this right, you'll have to use the "spherize" filter in Photoshop to undo the distortion.
Having the piece professionally photographed is probably the best way to get it into the computer. While some scanners have sufficient depth-of-field to scan an entire piece like this and keep it in focus, I find that the lighting falls off as you get further from the glass. A good photographer can light the thing evenly.
We copy and restore kwite a few of these - a photo is definitly the best way to get good results in my experience.
DVieau2
SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Most convex photos we copy using a Digital DSLR with a copy lens. I've never bothered to compensate for distortion.
I would go to a photo lab rather than a photo studio. The lab is more likely to have the copy equipment and the cost would probably be less.
This past week we scanned and stitched this convex photo (12 x 18) using an Epson 1680.
The photo was only bowed about 1/2 inch so the scanner had enough depth of field.
Doug
http://www.thegrumble.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=3498&stc=1&d=1235254189
I would go to a photo lab rather than a photo studio. The lab is more likely to have the copy equipment and the cost would probably be less.
This past week we scanned and stitched this convex photo (12 x 18) using an Epson 1680.
The photo was only bowed about 1/2 inch so the scanner had enough depth of field.
Doug
http://www.thegrumble.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=3498&stc=1&d=1235254189
Attachments
For professional restorers, reproducing the original image and correcting its flaws is routine work, is it not?
When the customer wants the new, restored image to be convex like the original, how do you do that?
When the customer wants the new, restored image to be convex like the original, how do you do that?
We recently did one of these. My employee scanned the image on to his flatbed scanner but got a lot of light leakage in the perimeter. He then draped the piece with an opaque cloth before scanning and it turned out fine.
Jim, if the inks wouldn't go back into solution (I've heard of some new generation ink-jet inks that won't*), you could wet the paper and deform it in a vacuum bag using a convex mold.
*One of my reps is also the rep for Tara who distributes ink-jet canvases and papers. He had an image on some new water resistant paper that he accidently dropped of a friends dock into salt water. He couldn't retrieve it that night, but returned the next day at low tide to check. There was the piece within reach, and the image was still in perfect condition.
Jim, if the inks wouldn't go back into solution (I've heard of some new generation ink-jet inks that won't*), you could wet the paper and deform it in a vacuum bag using a convex mold.
*One of my reps is also the rep for Tara who distributes ink-jet canvases and papers. He had an image on some new water resistant paper that he accidently dropped of a friends dock into salt water. He couldn't retrieve it that night, but returned the next day at low tide to check. There was the piece within reach, and the image was still in perfect condition.
Warren Tucker
MGF, Master Grumble Framer
I'm not sure Doug's example is a photograph; it may have been drawn from a photograph which would make look like one. The only way to reproduce Kristie's image is in a lab so that it can be projected onto non flat paper. We do a lot of photo restoration (we probably have one of the best digital labs in the country)and we've noticed a lot of images that the owners think are photographs aren't. The black and white ones are frequently charcoal drawings that look remarkably like photographs. When we encounter a client who wants his convex image restored and he wants it convex, we scan it on our Cruse scanner (depth of field 6 or 7 inches at f11), restore it as if it were flat and send the digital file to a lab capable of projecting the image onto a convex surface. That's an expensive route.
I know nothing about how these images came to be, but one way,, I suspect is that the paper is forced into a convex shape on a mold and the image is drawn and colored. They sure look like it.
I know nothing about how these images came to be, but one way,, I suspect is that the paper is forced into a convex shape on a mold and the image is drawn and colored. They sure look like it.
Warren Tucker
MGF, Master Grumble Framer
Wally, the archival inks we use are waterproof. I haven't tried the mold yet but I may just as an experiment. Even though the inks may be waterproof, the ink jet receptors on the paper may not. I'm sure there are papers with waterproof ink jet receptors. Still you could print the image on paper without receptors (you'd probably want a good profile of the paper and ink first) and mold that. There'd be a lot of problems, dot gain on papers without receptors being the principal one. Reproducing a convex image is such a RPITA that I wouldn't mind seeing the customer pay through the nose for it. A flat image would work for me.
Artifacts Gal
CGF, Certified Grumble Framer
Convex Photos
If the reproduction of the damaged convex photo was printed on the thinnest paper possible, then framed behind convex glass without mounting, it will take on a convex shape on its own over time. I understand these images to be enlargements of photos that were then artistically enhanced with watercolors, charcoal and/or pastels. I've seen advertising from photographers offering this service around the turn of the last century.
If the reproduction of the damaged convex photo was printed on the thinnest paper possible, then framed behind convex glass without mounting, it will take on a convex shape on its own over time. I understand these images to be enlargements of photos that were then artistically enhanced with watercolors, charcoal and/or pastels. I've seen advertising from photographers offering this service around the turn of the last century.
In case someone here doesn't yet know this, Inline Ovals makes the kind of old fashioned frames that someconvex photos used to be framed in. Those that were about two and a half inches wide, and dark brown, with lighter striations across the pattern. They also have them in cathedral and other shapes, and will custom make one to fit a certain piece.
Several years ago, a man brought me two cathedral shaped horizontal photos, one of which lacked a frame. I laid his other frame on Kraft paper, traced the inside of it, and mailed that off to Inline. A few weeks later, the perfect frame arrived. Just the right size, and matched his other one exactly. They also do convex glass and acrylic in some custom shapes.
This thread brings to mind a catastrophe that happened
long ago. One of my ladies came in with a convex hand-colored photo of her grandmother. I encouraged her to get a scan made of it before framing it, and suggested a local print shop. I told her to go there and ask them what options they offered for doing that. She came back in about an hour with her piece.
The woman at the print shop had taken her photo, laid it on their printer, squished it flat, and taken a copy! I still shudder at the mind-boggling wrongness of this. The backing and image tore in three places, each about an inch and a half long. I was absolutely shocked. I exhorted her as sweetly and forcefully as I could to go back and have them pay to have it restored by someone else. She was the kind of person who never makes a fuss about anything, and she insisted that it was okay. She just wouldn't do a thing more about it, and refused to hear of it. She went ahead with the job and has stayed our regular
customer, but Lord Almighty, they ill-treated her.
I told her that the reason I hadn't warned her about the
possiblity of that happening is that never in my life would
I imagine someone would do it. You can well guess that I've never sent anyone to that shop for such a project again.
Several years ago, a man brought me two cathedral shaped horizontal photos, one of which lacked a frame. I laid his other frame on Kraft paper, traced the inside of it, and mailed that off to Inline. A few weeks later, the perfect frame arrived. Just the right size, and matched his other one exactly. They also do convex glass and acrylic in some custom shapes.
This thread brings to mind a catastrophe that happened
long ago. One of my ladies came in with a convex hand-colored photo of her grandmother. I encouraged her to get a scan made of it before framing it, and suggested a local print shop. I told her to go there and ask them what options they offered for doing that. She came back in about an hour with her piece.
The woman at the print shop had taken her photo, laid it on their printer, squished it flat, and taken a copy! I still shudder at the mind-boggling wrongness of this. The backing and image tore in three places, each about an inch and a half long. I was absolutely shocked. I exhorted her as sweetly and forcefully as I could to go back and have them pay to have it restored by someone else. She was the kind of person who never makes a fuss about anything, and she insisted that it was okay. She just wouldn't do a thing more about it, and refused to hear of it. She went ahead with the job and has stayed our regular
customer, but Lord Almighty, they ill-treated her.
I told her that the reason I hadn't warned her about the
possiblity of that happening is that never in my life would
I imagine someone would do it. You can well guess that I've never sent anyone to that shop for such a project again.
jim_p
SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
If I were you *I* would have contacted that shop and ripped them a new one. Sounds like they don't have a clue, and you need to supply them one with great force
Let's just say that I've grown a great deal since then in
my ability to speak assertively. I'm never rude or mean to
people, but have learned how to very clearly let them know
what's going on and what I hope can be changed.
my ability to speak assertively. I'm never rude or mean to
people, but have learned how to very clearly let them know
what's going on and what I hope can be changed.
AWG
SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
These folks are THE people to talk to about convex repair, restore, print, etc - located here ion NC I've worked with them once before and they are terrific!
http://www.convexartist.com/
Tony
http://www.convexartist.com/
Tony