Plumbing an an system
- Thread starter Mogulite
- Start date
FrameMakers
PFG, Picture Framing God
I have seen just about everything used. For cost & ease of use I would use PVC pipe or quality hoses. Stay away form the hard plastic coil hoses, Those will develope leaks quickly.
Framerguy
PFG, Picture Framing God
Go to any auto shop or autobody shop and see what the professionals use for their air tools. I doubt that many will tell you that, for overall long term stability and durability, there is anything better than steel piping and couplings. I was in that profession for 33 years and I don't recall ever seeing an autobody shop plumbed in anything but steel.
Regarding air lines, get the best you can afford. If you can plan ahead, set up your air system with all air tools in place and use a dedicated airline system to operate each tool. That way you can hard connect the tools to the air supply and not have to use quick disconnects. They leak really badly sometimes. I don't know much about these coiled hoses as I am just starting to use them with this new compressor we bought but, so far, it seems like the coils are a royal pain in the butt for getting caught on everything you have to stretch your airline over or around to use the tools. I don't have enough space to plumb an air system in so I make do with one of these phone cord type of coiled lines. I don't like it so far.
I you need only 10' or 15' of airline for a particular tool, you can cut a long airline and splice it together so you don't have to wrestle with extra airline all the time. You can buy splices and connectors for these at any NAPA store or probably Home Depot or Lowes. It all depends on how you lay out your shop as to how you will plumb your air system or if you even need a permanent air system installed. Sometimes it isn't needed in a small shop and you can get by with a couple of good quality hoses run to the few tools that operate on air.
(Don't forget to use teflon tape on all the threaded joints for an airtight seal around the threads.)
Good luck with your project.
Regarding air lines, get the best you can afford. If you can plan ahead, set up your air system with all air tools in place and use a dedicated airline system to operate each tool. That way you can hard connect the tools to the air supply and not have to use quick disconnects. They leak really badly sometimes. I don't know much about these coiled hoses as I am just starting to use them with this new compressor we bought but, so far, it seems like the coils are a royal pain in the butt for getting caught on everything you have to stretch your airline over or around to use the tools. I don't have enough space to plumb an air system in so I make do with one of these phone cord type of coiled lines. I don't like it so far.
I you need only 10' or 15' of airline for a particular tool, you can cut a long airline and splice it together so you don't have to wrestle with extra airline all the time. You can buy splices and connectors for these at any NAPA store or probably Home Depot or Lowes. It all depends on how you lay out your shop as to how you will plumb your air system or if you even need a permanent air system installed. Sometimes it isn't needed in a small shop and you can get by with a couple of good quality hoses run to the few tools that operate on air.
(Don't forget to use teflon tape on all the threaded joints for an airtight seal around the threads.)
Good luck with your project.
QuickDraw
MGF, Master Grumble Framer
STAY AWAY FROM PVC!!!!!! - it is rated for water and not air. I worked in a place once that used PVC for air pipe. It was constantly Exploding and sends shrapnel in all directions not to mention requiring a new set of knickers every time it happens. I would go with steel or brass piping if possible or at least use an air rated pipe/hose...
Jerry Ervin
PFG, Picture Framing God
If you attempt the PVC method, only use the 'Schedule 80 seamless' pipe. It is the strongest rated pipe.
In some areas, it is legal to run natural gas through.
Copper is relatively easy to work with but cost more. A lot more.
In some areas, it is legal to run natural gas through.
Copper is relatively easy to work with but cost more. A lot more.
FrameMakers
PFG, Picture Framing God
The Schedule 80 pvc is what I meant. What kind of pressures were you running QD.
My stores use a combination of black iron and hoses as one of the lines is on the floor.
My stores use a combination of black iron and hoses as one of the lines is on the floor.
QuickDraw
MGF, Master Grumble Framer
It was an industrial manufacturing plant with floor pressures of 120-150 psi - similar to what my portable unit delivers. The piping we were using was 3" schedule 80 pvc, but any pipe manufacture will quickly tell you do not use PVC for air. it is dangerous stuff when used in that capacity and is not rated for this use. Call and ask a compressor vendor or a plumber if you have doubts (not a framing supply store). Plumbing is not our specialty and is not something that most are qualified to specify, but I know from experience, you may be able to get by with schedule 80 PVC but it is not something the proper use and could provide a danger. That being said, if you have it in your store and have been using it for 100 years, more power to you, this stuff is just like anything else and has engineering and manufacturing tolerances applied to it and some will come off the line a lot stronger than other. However, the average sch 80 PVC does not meet air piping standards
framah
SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
I just used the same orange air hose that would connect to your equipment and put a tee connector where you want to run another line off somewhere. I doubt your shop is so big you have to hang steel air lines, just run the hose above the drop ceiling and drop down where you need it.
I figured how long I wanted each section, cut the hose and then went to an auto parts place and they attached the couplings to the ends for a small fee, of course.
And DO use quick release couplers as you want to have the ability to switch from one hand tool to another. What minute amount they might leak is more than offset by the versatility of being able to change out the tools when you need them. I have an air gun at the work table and I remove the gun and attach the stapler or the nailer whenever I need them.
I have the air for my Pistorius chop saw fixed but that's all. Even the CMC has a quick release in the line so I have access to air at that end of the shop.
Don't over think this. It isn't as big a deal as others made it to be.
I figured how long I wanted each section, cut the hose and then went to an auto parts place and they attached the couplings to the ends for a small fee, of course.
And DO use quick release couplers as you want to have the ability to switch from one hand tool to another. What minute amount they might leak is more than offset by the versatility of being able to change out the tools when you need them. I have an air gun at the work table and I remove the gun and attach the stapler or the nailer whenever I need them.
I have the air for my Pistorius chop saw fixed but that's all. Even the CMC has a quick release in the line so I have access to air at that end of the shop.
Don't over think this. It isn't as big a deal as others made it to be.
QuickDraw
MGF, Master Grumble Framer
Re-read my post and framah you are correct. You don't have to use steel or brass or metal of any kind. Rubber flex hose works fine. All I'm saying is stay away from PVC. It's really not applicable for use with air. Go to harbor freight and order their cheapest Polyvinyl air hose and it works great. If you are doing anything that requires hard pipe, then I'd look at steel/brass/copper tubing or something comparable.
Quick Draw;
CPVC schedule 80 is allowed per code in Michigan - it is rated at #600PSI. That means it is more that adequate for our uses with our pressure ranges of 90-100psi or less. As some people know PVC and CPVC are close (similar) but not the exact same thing. If you look at the ratings of flexable hoses , most are rated for 300# or less.
You stated that you were in a plant with 3" PVC - with a schedule 80 rating, there is a big difference in volume from a 1/2" or 3/4" pipe and a 3" pipe (16 times vs 3/4"). I wonder if that had anything to do with your experience or was it defective pipe.
Note the loss in PSI rating with respect to diamater via this reference http://www.harvel.com/piping-cpvc.asp
CPVC schedule 80 is allowed per code in Michigan - it is rated at #600PSI. That means it is more that adequate for our uses with our pressure ranges of 90-100psi or less. As some people know PVC and CPVC are close (similar) but not the exact same thing. If you look at the ratings of flexable hoses , most are rated for 300# or less.
You stated that you were in a plant with 3" PVC - with a schedule 80 rating, there is a big difference in volume from a 1/2" or 3/4" pipe and a 3" pipe (16 times vs 3/4"). I wonder if that had anything to do with your experience or was it defective pipe.
Note the loss in PSI rating with respect to diamater via this reference http://www.harvel.com/piping-cpvc.asp
QuickDraw
MGF, Master Grumble Framer
OSHA Says NO!
Below are some comments from actually a woodworking phorum on hte same subject many with better descriptors than I have. I also would suggest you check the osha web site link and read through the letters that they have written regarding the matter.
http://www.osha.gov/dts/hib/hib_data/hib19880520.html
Comment from contributor F:
Using plastic pipe in any compressed air system is strongly discouraged in pressures over 60psi. Don't use it. For a wood or cabinent shop blowing off sawdust it's fine. OSHA sets this limit at 30psi. The problem with the plastics is the additive packages in today's compressor lubricants cause the inside of plastic pipe to deteriorate, become brittle, and cause shrapnel type projectiles in high pressure failures. Cases have been documented of shrapnel penetrating drywall 30' away. Review OSHA.org. Aluminum pipe is the best, and goes up without chemical glues (plastic) or fire (copper) and is expandible when your shop grows.
Comment from contributor R:
PVC used for airlines is against the law. OSHA could chain and padlock your doors until you replace it with explosion-proof material (galvanized pipe, blk iron or copper).
Comment from contributor N:
You should never run PVC for air-lines. I work for a major plumbing distributor and we recommend black iron for air lines. With the way the plastic market is the black iron isn't that much more expensive and you don't have to worry about it cracking or shattering like you do with the PVC.
There is another type of plastic that is approved but it is harder to locate. One example is Acrylonitrate-Butadiene-Styrene. The bottom line is if you want to use a plastic pipe check to make sure it is marked "approved" for compressed air supply.
Comment from contributor S:
My job is to install compressed air systems and the majority of our installations are using Polypropolyne compressed air pipe with socket fusion joints. This product is designed for these applications and can handle the pressure and has high impact resistance. It’s less expensive than the next best product which is copper. Black steel pipe may be less but it will take twice as long to install rust internally and leak over time if screwed together. It is a very costly and time consuming job to add to later on.
Comment from contributor J:
I've worked in the compressed air industry for a long time and PVC is unacceptable for compressed air - illegal in many states. Copper and steel are among reasonable solutions, but I recommend Transair pipe systems. These are push-to-connect aluminum pipe systems that require very little time to install with moderate material costs. The system is versatile - and much easier to install than steel or copper.
Below are some comments from actually a woodworking phorum on hte same subject many with better descriptors than I have. I also would suggest you check the osha web site link and read through the letters that they have written regarding the matter.
http://www.osha.gov/dts/hib/hib_data/hib19880520.html
Comment from contributor F:
Using plastic pipe in any compressed air system is strongly discouraged in pressures over 60psi. Don't use it. For a wood or cabinent shop blowing off sawdust it's fine. OSHA sets this limit at 30psi. The problem with the plastics is the additive packages in today's compressor lubricants cause the inside of plastic pipe to deteriorate, become brittle, and cause shrapnel type projectiles in high pressure failures. Cases have been documented of shrapnel penetrating drywall 30' away. Review OSHA.org. Aluminum pipe is the best, and goes up without chemical glues (plastic) or fire (copper) and is expandible when your shop grows.
Comment from contributor R:
PVC used for airlines is against the law. OSHA could chain and padlock your doors until you replace it with explosion-proof material (galvanized pipe, blk iron or copper).
Comment from contributor N:
You should never run PVC for air-lines. I work for a major plumbing distributor and we recommend black iron for air lines. With the way the plastic market is the black iron isn't that much more expensive and you don't have to worry about it cracking or shattering like you do with the PVC.
There is another type of plastic that is approved but it is harder to locate. One example is Acrylonitrate-Butadiene-Styrene. The bottom line is if you want to use a plastic pipe check to make sure it is marked "approved" for compressed air supply.
Comment from contributor S:
My job is to install compressed air systems and the majority of our installations are using Polypropolyne compressed air pipe with socket fusion joints. This product is designed for these applications and can handle the pressure and has high impact resistance. It’s less expensive than the next best product which is copper. Black steel pipe may be less but it will take twice as long to install rust internally and leak over time if screwed together. It is a very costly and time consuming job to add to later on.
Comment from contributor J:
I've worked in the compressed air industry for a long time and PVC is unacceptable for compressed air - illegal in many states. Copper and steel are among reasonable solutions, but I recommend Transair pipe systems. These are push-to-connect aluminum pipe systems that require very little time to install with moderate material costs. The system is versatile - and much easier to install than steel or copper.
QuickDraw
MGF, Master Grumble Framer
From the web site of US Plastics - Manufacturer of PVC
This is schedule 40 and schedule 80 pvc pipe. Schedule 40 is available in gray and white, and is for socket fittings only. It is NSF listed, but can't be threaded. Schedule 80 is available in gray and is for socket or threaded fittings. It can be threaded and is NSF listed. Both have a wide variety of uses in the chemical field and resistance, also in industrial plants, just to name a couple. For UV resistance of PVC pipe and fittings, paint with a white water based latex paint. Under chemical, the service temp is 33-140° F. Pipe is not recommended for use with compressed air or gases.
FROM A DISTRIBUTER (PLUMBINGSUPPLY.COM)
PVC pipe is designed for the transmittal of liquids, and could be dangerous when used for transmitting compressed air or gas (especially above ground).
This is schedule 40 and schedule 80 pvc pipe. Schedule 40 is available in gray and white, and is for socket fittings only. It is NSF listed, but can't be threaded. Schedule 80 is available in gray and is for socket or threaded fittings. It can be threaded and is NSF listed. Both have a wide variety of uses in the chemical field and resistance, also in industrial plants, just to name a couple. For UV resistance of PVC pipe and fittings, paint with a white water based latex paint. Under chemical, the service temp is 33-140° F. Pipe is not recommended for use with compressed air or gases.
FROM A DISTRIBUTER (PLUMBINGSUPPLY.COM)
PVC pipe is designed for the transmittal of liquids, and could be dangerous when used for transmitting compressed air or gas (especially above ground).