Papyrus mounting

[Whatknot]

Can you mount papyrus in a hot vaccuum press? Hubby had a few small pieces sitting around and I mounted them onto foamboard with no problem. Is this an acceptable way to mount papyrus? This one has gold and sparkly bits that hubby’s didn’t have.
Thanks for your input!

 

[Mary Beth van der Horst]

I'm curious what may be said about this from others, but I was taught never ever drymount papyrus--specifially papyrus due to the woven and unstable nature of the plant fibers.

Other "nopes" are laser prints, high gloss photos, tickets, veloxes, cibachromes, childrens art, laminated stuff, diplomas, certificates, limited editions and original art, but mostly due to heat/irreversability.

 

[JFeig]

The key question to ask the client is... "Is this a 'tourist souvenir' or a real treasure?
If it is the first, tourist souvenir, I see no reason not to. My only caveat is that a disposable piece of paper should be placed over the art when in the press to keep the press clean from any transfer of medium from the art with the temperature set at the lowest setting possible and to cool under weights.

 

[Whatknot]

The key question to ask the client is... "Is this a 'tourist souvenir' or a real treasure?
If it is the first, tourist souvenir, I see no reason not to. My only caveat is that a disposable piece of paper should be placed over the art when in the press to keep the press clean from any transfer of medium from the art with the temperature set at the lowest setting possible and to cool under weights.

Well he’s paying quite a lot to get it framed. It is a tourist souvenir but his logic is that it cost him a lot to go there to pick up this souvenir so it’s relatively just a pittance to frame it.

 

[Rick Granick]

I float hinge them, usually on a dark color mat that brings out details in the design. The darker the background, the more the weave of the papayrus shows up.
The waviness and dimesionality of a papayrus is part of its character, and this would be lost if it were dry mounted. Might as well have a print of a papayrus.
Rick

 

[Whatknot]

I float hinge them, usually on a dark color mat that brings out details in the design. The darker the background, the more the weave of the papayrus shows up.
The waviness and dimesionality of a papayrus is part of its character, and this would be lost if it were dry mounted. Might as well have a print of a papayrus.
Rick

Good point!

 

[Shayla]

I usually float hinge with mulberry paper and rice starch. I have mounted a few tempra paintings from Africa/Cuba to Mount Cor for floating, and they worked well. But haven't tried it with a papyrus.

 

[JFeig]

If the question was "what would you do?", I would be inclined to hinge it as well as others have suggested.

 

[Nikodeumus]

I've done about 1/2 dozen of these "tourist" papyrus items.
Same as others, float hinge and space the glazing well away so that if the paper does warp with humidity changes, it won't contact the glass.
I have done some over a black background like Rick, and I have done some over white.
Like Rick said the black can accentuate the texture of the paper, but I found white can really make the colours "pop".
I floated this over white mountboard about 1/4" smaller than the narrowest measurements, then glued the mounted item over a black background so the rough edges really stand out.

 

[artfolio]

Nice design, Nic.

I, too usually preferred a lighter float as I found black and dark colours often showed through the thinner parts as a greyish discolouration and also made it harder to disguise the hinges. Your solution overcomes that problem neatly.

Although it looks fragile papyrus is actually quite durable and can be flattened with the same dampness and pressure you would use on paper. The only problem is that the gold paint varies in quality and I would not use heat on that. For sharp kinks, ie a folded corner, I have successfully used a hot iron and a bit of moisture, again, moving carefully and gradually increasing the heat.

Biggest trick is remembering to charge enough for all the faffing around.

 

[Rick Granick]

, too usually preferred a lighter float as I found black and dark colours often showed through the thinner parts as a greyish discolouration and also made it harder to disguise the hinges.

To me, the apparent color shift you mention due to the translucent fibers is what shows off the structure of the papayrus. I put the hinges behind the thickest parts of the weave, which disguises them pretty effectively.

 

[wcox]

I always give the customer the choice of dry mounting or hinging. Explain to the customer that dry mounting the art it will stay flat other wise it will always be rippled. If they want to have the deckled edges showing it still can be dry mounted just trim the mounting tissues slightly smaller than the art so you don't see in and mount it on matboard of choice. Some customers do not care for the usual unevenness of the boarder on the art and the deckled edges.

 

[LaFontsee]

For what it's worth, when I first started out, I was trained to use Fusion to mount touristy ones. We would use a self-trim method to apply the Fusion. In your press, you put in order from bottom to top, kraft paper, the papyrus face down, Fusion, release paper. Cook it for a full cycle, then pull it out while it's still hot and the Fusion is still melted. Quickly pull the papyrus from the kraft paper leaving the melted Fusion stuck to the kraft paper. It'll trim itself to the shape of the papyrus. You then have your papyrus with adhesive on the back trimmed exactly which you can mount on whatever matboard you like.

Nowadays I'd almost always use starch paste and mulberry hinges, but it's a handy tool to keep in your back pocket for unusually shaped items that need to be flat.

James

 

[alacrity8]

For what it's worth, when I first started out, I was trained to use Fusion to mount touristy ones. We would use a self-trim method to apply the Fusion. In your press, you put in order from bottom to top, kraft paper, the papyrus face down, Fusion, release paper. Cook it for a full cycle, then pull it out while it's still hot and the Fusion is still melted. Quickly pull the papyrus from the kraft paper leaving the melted Fusion stuck to the kraft paper. It'll trim itself to the shape of the papyrus. You then have your papyrus with adhesive on the back trimmed exactly which you can mount on whatever matboard you like.

Nowadays I'd almost always use starch paste and mulberry hinges, but it's a handy tool to keep in your back pocket for unusually shaped items that need to be flat.

James

We use a similar approach to mounting unusually shaped objects.
Ours in inverted from yours, and we use 2 layers of release paper.
From the bottom up: Release Paper, Fusion, Art, Kraft Paper, Release Paper.

I will have to try your method. The heat wouldn't have to penetrate through the art to get to the Fusion.
I have an aversion to facing art downward in the press, and I'm now not sure why.

 

[Along Frame John]

We mount papyrus all the time. It is always tourist art. We mount colormount to the back first, then trim the art out, then mount the art to the 4 ply of the customer's choice.
We put colormount in around 180, and I have never seen any bad reaction in the gold paint. (I do agree about being mindful about the gold paint though.)
Our customers want their papyrus flat about 85% of the time. Otherwise I use paste and Japanese tissue to hinge. Papyrus is durable!

 

[monkframe]

One approach I've taken when we've determined that it isn't a valuable antique, which most aren't, is to use a piece of Fusion 4000 to heat mount the piece, but only enough to do the center section for general flattening. The edges remain deckled, and the appearance is clean, but hand-made- looking. That allows for any color background you wish, as these pieces often look good on strong colors. I've done them this way up to 4 feet long.

 

[Pat Murphey]

Tourist papyrus, I've always just used Attach-Ez micro tags. Strategic placement can make it fairly flat without ruining the natural waviness. Color the tags to match the art.

 

[Whatknot]

Thanks, everyone, for the insights. I ended up calling the customer (who was on vacation) and asking him his preference. He said to leave it wavy and if he decided he didn’t like it, he would bring it back for flat mounting.

I so appreciate this group. With any questions, its easy to search for answers and I usually find what I’m looking for. You are a wonderful resource. Many thanks for being here. You should charge more…

 

[MichaelFerris]

Has anyone experimented with placing a couple dabs of methyl cellulose directly on the back of the papyrus, and weighing it down on the front with blotter paper? It looks like our feathered mulberry hinges would still be very noticeable, and dry mounting is not an option. Taking it out of the old frame, it seems the previous framer did something like that, with a small amount of adhesive on the back, directly mounted to the bottom mat. These are touristy types of work as well. Thanks in advance!

 

[Nikodeumus]

Has anyone experimented with placing a couple dabs of methyl cellulose directly on the back of the papyrus, and weighing it down on the front with blotter paper?

One reason against that idea is it will make permanent bonding points between the papyrus and the mount board.
The reason for hinges is to allow the artwork to move with contraction cycles. The hinges allow this movement.
Permanent attachment points do not allow the item to move outwards and will therefore deform inwards creating buckles/waves, etc.

At this point, it is a judgment call...
1-If it is a matter of cost and ease, then spot mounting can be done (doesn't mean it is the best method, just simple and cheap) At the risk of causing future harm to the item.
2-If keeping the item in good condition is preferred, then going to the effort (and cost) of more appropriate methods should be considered more desirable.

If an item is just a "fun" piece that has no long-term value to the customer and they want to keep the budget down, then option 1 would work.
If the item is something they want to keep in good condition as long as possible (decades, or even next generations) then option 2 would be advisable.

I usually educate my customers on these considerations and ask them to decide what is more important to them.

 

[monkframe]

I use fusion 4000 to mount papyrus. But, I cut the tissue smaller than the outside edge so there's a visible texture on the edges.
Best appearing solution I've found.

 

[MichaelFerris]

One reason against that idea is it will make permanent bonding points between the papyrus and the mount board.
The reason for hinges is to allow the artwork to move with contraction cycles. The hinges allow this movement.
Permanent attachment points do not allow the item to move outwards and will therefore deform inwards creating buckles/waves, etc.

At this point, it is a judgment call...
1-If it is a matter of cost and ease, then spot mounting can be done (doesn't mean it is the best method, just simple and cheap) At the risk of causing future harm to the item.
2-If keeping the item in good condition is preferred, then going to the effort (and cost) of more appropriate methods should be considered more desirable.

If an item is just a "fun" piece that has no long-term value to the customer and they want to keep the budget down, then option 1 would work.
If the item is something they want to keep in good condition as long as possible (decades, or even next generations) then option 2 would be advisable.

I usually educate my customers on these considerations and ask them to decide what is more important to them.

They seem, according to the designers out front, to lean towards option 1. The papyrus is quite buckled and deckled, whether just the natural form of the paper and from years of being spot attached to the mat, I'm not sure. I'll talk to them out front to have these considerations in mind for future projects. Thanks!

 

[monkframe]

I've framed many of these works and have never had a customer concerned about the mount - they just want it done. And these are not expensive works - "touristy," as one poster put it.

 

[Nikodeumus]

I use fusion 4000 to mount papyrus. But, I cut the tissue smaller than the outside edge so there's a visible texture on the edges.
Best appearing solution I've found.

I have also dry-mounted inexpensive purely decorative papyrus tourist art on occasion.
The customer didn't care about value or longevity. Just wanted it done "cheap" and fast.
The ones I did were fairly thick material, and heavily textured.
The dry-mounting flattened out the texture, it wasn't my

I have also had other pieces of art on papyrus (and similar types of paper )that have required "do no harm" mounting methods.

 

[Prospero]

I have done them in the past. Haven't seen one for years.....

I use drymount Film which I pre-mounted on the board first. Once this is done you only need a quick
squeeze in the press to fix them. The caveat is that the slightly glossy surface of the film can show though the weave.

If I had one to do now I would float it so it was raised a bit. That way the undulations on the edge are no so apparent.
In any case, I think they look nicer if they are a bit wavy.