making/repairing gilded frames

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unframed_mystery

CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2
Joined
Jun 7, 2002
Posts
264
Loc
S.Yorkshire, England
A friend of mine is wondering if anyone can recommend a specific type of plaster to use for repairing or making gilded frames. She's recently become interested in repairing old frames and needs some helpful information.
:cool:
 
For casting of parts we use HYDROCAL. It is sold by U S Gypsum. The generic term of the product is "gypsum cement". It is stronger that standard plaster of Paris.

For small fill ins we use home made gesso which is made from whitting and rabbit skin glue. It can be applied by brush or made into a puddy for fillins.
 
For repairs, you will need to make a mold from a like, but undamaged portion of the frame. I use plastacine pressed onto a flat piece of wood. Dust the area of the frame you are taking the impression from with talcum powder, shake off the excess powder. Press the plastacine onto the frame using the wood as a "handle". Carefully remove the "mold" you have made and make sure it is flat on the wood. Dust the mold with talcum powder, shake off the excess.

Next step is casting the mold. Mix some water putty to a pourable consistancy. You can get water putty at any hardware store, it is inexpesive ( around 3 or 4 dollars ) Pour the putty into the mould & let it dry over night.

Next part is fitting it to the damaged area of the frame. This is the time consuming tricky part. Glue a sheet of sandpaper, about 120 grit, to a piece of glass or wood. Make another impression with plastacine of the damaged area cut it to size. Use the plastacine template to mark your casting. Sand all the excess casting untill your casting fits into the damaged area. (Don't worry if the casting breaks, keep sanding untill your pieces fit into the damaged area.)

Glue the casting in place and fill in any air bubles and cracks with more water putty. Clean it up as much as you can before the water putty hardens. You are now ready to proceed with your finish. If it is a leafed frame, you may have to re-guild the entire frame.

John
 
This is something that I would really like to see taught in a PPFA or a Decor class at the upcoming trade shows. I have expressed an interest in learning the basics of guilding and compo repair for some time and would gladly pay to take classes in how to do these techniques.

I still feel that, if one of our ex-Grumblers would have focused his energies towards something like educating some of us in his specialty, he would probably still be here with us instead of wandering around out there in the nether-world of non-Grumblers.

Framerguy
 
Framerguy,

Don't worry, I'm still around and was getting ready to compliment JRB on his technical knowledge in this field.

As of you not being able to take classes on fixing frames at a trade show, there must be a good reason for it. In my opinion some things simply cannot be thought in just a few hours at a trade show. Believe you me; I know what I'm saying. Anybody stating the opposite and charging money to prove me wrong is just stealing it from you and giving you the illusion of being there in return.

I noticed that you people had met Peter Stetler (the antique picture frame restorer from NY) on TG. Well, long time ago I worked with Pete day by day, for a couple of years, in order to learn proper antique frame restoration. At the time I was already an accomplished frame-maker and a good learner and yet took me that long to master the art of it. What did I need it for? Simply, to better my design, finishing and frame making understanding.

Why am I telling you this? Because I need to set my credentials straight before reiterating that gilding and frame restoration cannot be thought/learned in a couple of hours at a trade show, nor in 3 or 5 day work shop classes that are so abundantly offered by many. Anyway, not if one truly respects his teaching and wants to pass on real stuff, not just a few magic, eye catching tricks.

I'm sorry, Frameguy, for not having made my points clearer the first time I addressed this issue, but I simply presumed obvious the reasons of my avoiding the straight answer. I apologize if I was insensitive and hurtful towards you or any other Grumbler fellows and I assure you that I felt flattered by your appreciation of my art.

Cornel (The infamous Frame Harbor)
 
Come on down. During my recently finished apprenticeship, we spent a solid week learning the basics of guilding and frame repair. There are some good books and videos out there to help you but it is very time consuming. Best of luck. Alan
 
Allen,
I don't know much about Australian framers passing down their centuries trusted recipes in way of frame restoration classes or their own books, so I won’t comment on possible Australian good sources. But I'm yet to find, for instance, a reliable compo recipe in any book that's out in print. Those that are yet somewhat serviceable don't ever reveal more than 30% of their true substance count and composition, while others are outright too laughable to even deserve our consideration. As far as I am concerned, same is true for gesso and gilding clay formulae too.
Let's not forget that most technical book authors are just that, authors compiling new pages from older books and having very little first hands experience with the flesh and bones of what they are writing about. I’d say that whoever is earning a living with his hands has little time left and ability to write books. It makes sense to me that the opposite is being also true.
Due to modern materials used as substitutes for real compo and gesso, like Hydrocal and synthetic gesso, one can get by with an easy, not that demanding job, but doubtfully so if kept against higher standards. The cast gypsum ornament must have its pin holes filled in with putty, sanded, then gessoed and, in order to get a continuous and credible look, one may find himself in urgent need of regilding and refinishing the entire frame all over again. Useless to say that this is not the right procedure when antique frames are involved and one must preserve the original surface and make the repair become inconspicuous to the expert eye.
 
Welcome back Cornel!
Just a few thoughts here...
FGII, these classes have indeed been taught at various trade shows over the past few years.
I am one of those people who have taken several classes with industry leafing gurus. I have taken classes in water gilding and oil gilding and compo ornaments, etc. Even though I am The Goddess I had no notion of becoming accomplished at any of these disciplines. But it helped to know what the heck I was selling to customers at $80.00 per foot and what the difference was between that and a $30.00 per foot moulding. I had vague notions about having even a limited ability to do repairs. And truly, some little thingys I can indeed doll up a bit. But others are far beyond my scope. I send those out! (to a pro!)
And you all know that I would not even attempt some sort of quasi-repair on a frame that I suspected had some value.
But, Cornel, those classes were immeasurably helpful to me and my shop. Having someone TELL me about the leafing process only goes so far, having a "hands-on" experience was just what I needed to have a more thorough understanding and to be even more of a...

Framing Goddess!

P.S. Cornel, if you teach a class in NY at the next show (or how about Atlanta in Sept.? :D )- just an overview of the art of gilding, perhaps, I will be there! :D :D :D
 
Hi Edith,

Nice talking to you again, my Goddess! How come I didn't know that you took all those classes?
I agree with you that those classes helped enlarge your horizons and better your high-end frame selling abilities. If this is exactly what one expects from such classes, then I must admit that they serve well one's purpose. However, at that specific level of craftsmanship, no malice intended, (1) any of my workers is a far less expensive guru to learn from and, (2) just a chosen few would dare sell to their clients their newly acquired expertise ;)
In my opinion, a guru is not to offer much less to charge for "peep at my art" class packages, but then I might be wrong from a making money point of view.
I’m painfully aware that framers are no longer required to master the art of frame making in order to enter and successfully stay in this business. More over, they have little time left to invest in learning a soon to be extinct art. In such circumstances, selling small and expensive bits of it (at the trade shows or through 1-2-3 shop classes) might be the best those gurus can do to both keep themselves and their art alive.
 
Originally posted by American Choice:
More over, they have little time left to invest in learning a soon to be extinct art.
Click to expand...
I can relate to this in another part of my business. (Hand caning and restoring wicker) It is such a labor intensive and demanding practice that very few of us are doing it. Ah, but that is why there will always be work for those doing "specialized" tasks, whether it is restoring frames or wicker. Like I tell my employee as more and more comes in the door, "Job security, my dear, job security."

Betty
 
We have had a lot of success and have developed restoration into a large part of our business. For frame repair, first, give the damaged area a coat of clear shellac and let it dry. Restoration of ornaments can be accomplished by making a casting of the ornaments using Algenate, the same material your dentist uses in taking a mold of your teeth. It will harden in about 5 minutes and remain flexible for about 4 hours. Mixing is a problem and you must try it a few times to get a feel for it. Algenate can be purchased from taxidery supply houses.

Make your casting with Durham's Rock Hard, Water Putty "Sticks, stays put, Will not Shrink", available from you local friendly hardware store.

Shellac the finished product and apply an appropriate color of gold. We use Liberon Gilt Cream for small jobs, (even some large jobs)

Don't tell anyone about this, it is a secret.

Jack Campbell
Expressive Surroundings
expressur@thegrid.net
 
When using plaster or paster-based materials(such as Durham's Rock Hard Water Putty) for making missing frame parts, make absolutely sure that most of the moisture is evaporated out before applying the casting to the frame surface, or before applying a finish. Finishes on damp plaster will peel off.
 
Hey PETE!!!
Glad to meet you in here, man! It looks like some Grumblers are flirting with frame restoration. Aren't you feeling in danger? ;) :D
 
Now, Cornel, that wasn't a very nice thing to say about us "Gilder Newbies"! I don't think that any of us will be sneaking into New York state late at night to steal all of your customers!


If you just keep this whole concept on the learning level, maybe you could persuade some of us to go to a real gilder's school and learn the rudiments of oil and water gilding and maybe some of the REALLY smart ones can pick up some education on repairing some of these really ornate beauties.

Consider this a light slap on the back of the hand. ;)

Framerguy, "gilder doofus", but willing to learn.
 
Framers will 'flirt with' anything! We're fearless!!!
muuuaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!

Thanks everyone who contributed advice to this, you've been very helpful :cool:
 
Originally posted by Framerguy:
[QB]Now, Cornel, that wasn't a very nice thing to say about us "Gilder Newbies"! I don't think that any of us will be sneaking into New York state late at night to steal all of your customers!

Framerguy, don't count me in danger. My friend Pete may be in danger, not me, as I'm wasting my life doing something else than restoring antique frames
I'm having a proposal for you, if you allow my treating you with a beer, in Queens ;) not only that I'll pay for it, but also hook you up with Peter who's the best teacher in his field
))
Click to expand...
 
Originally posted by American Choice:
I'm having a proposal for you, if you allow my treating you with a beer, in Queens ;) not only that I'll pay for it, but also hook you up with Peter who's the best teacher in his field
))
Click to expand...
Now Tom, you couldn't ask for any more than that! (Except I'd ask for iced tea instead of a beer, but that's just me...)

Betty
 
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