LifeSaver Woahs

[Nainsook Framing Crew]

I'm sure we are not the only frame shop that is "Dealing" with this FR to Lifesaver transition, and so far it has not been user friendly at all. Is there other programs out there that are more or less prodoction oriented?
We are having the hardest time trying to order supplies and are spending more production hours trying to enter anything in to order from ALL the different vendors. We have been calling in all the time trying to figure out how to streamline it but it has been close to a nightmare.
Has anyone else been working with this problem, and dsoes anyone have any ideas if there are other programs that we can run two POS stations from and get an ok to good ordering for Purchase Orders, customer lookups, searches etc?
So frustrated here.

 

[Mike Labbe]

I'm sorry to hear that are going through some woes and challenges learning a different system. While they are very different and on different platforms, I believe it is well worth the effort!

For your mat, moulding, and fabric vendors you just go in and select which ones you carry (from the lists, LJ, Omega, Bella, Bainbridge, Crescent, etc). It will then populate ALL of their products in your store database. They will immediately be available in the workorder screen, and will show anywhere else related to your sold products and tracking workorders. They will also automatically update prices daily, or as new price increases come from the vendors. In addition to the large list of vendors, you can also manually enter in anything else that you created in house. (or maybe close out mouldings that you bought at a discount) Those go in as a store moulding.

For customer lookups/searches, you can click "Invoices and Payments" button on the main menu. (the first button)
From there, you can search by the customer last name, phone, date range, PO #, workorder #, or invoice #. (you only need ONE of the above, we usually just go by last name )

Just like FrameReady, special treatments, glazing, and labor are periodically (manually) adjusted by the operator. These can be priced a variety of ways (by lite, by square foot, by united inch, each, etc)

I suspect that most, if not all, of the above - already came over with the conversion from FrameReady?

We have been using it since 2002 in our shop, and I'm glad to try to answer any questions. We started with the original desktop version, but switched to the Cloud product just before the Covid pandemic. I'm sometimes at trade shows, as a customer testimonial. It does a lot more than most people use, and we all use it in our own unique way, but it is a good tool.

Mike

 

[FramingPOS]

I'm sure we are not the only frame shop that is "Dealing" with this FR to Lifesaver transition, and so far it has not been user friendly at all. Is there other programs out there that are more or less prodoction oriented?
We are having the hardest time trying to order supplies and are spending more production hours trying to enter anything in to order from ALL the different vendors. We have been calling in all the time trying to figure out how to streamline it but it has been close to a nightmare.
Has anyone else been working with this problem, and dsoes anyone have any ideas if there are other programs that we can run two POS stations from and get an ok to good ordering for Purchase Orders, customer lookups, searches etc?
So frustrated here.

I normally try very hard not to publicly promote Framing POS in threads like this, but since the original post specifically asked about other software options for production, purchase orders, multiple POS stations, customer lookups, and workflow issues, I figured it made sense to answer the question directly and transparently.

Besides owning two frame shops in NYC metro area for the past thirty years, I’m also one of the co founders of Framing POS.

We currently offer unlimited concurrent logins, so you do not get kicked out if you open Framing POS on another browser or station.

A big area of focus for us has been trying to simplify production workflows, purchase orders, vendor ordering, and searching/customer management for frame shops.

Here’s a video showing how the Purchase Order system works in Framing POS in case it helps researching options or comparing workflows:

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[alacrity8]

I am currently trying to find the time to review our options for a Frame Ready successor.

Current Competitors are:
Virtual Framer: Totally different design methodology. Lots of options.
Specialty Soft: Very Simplified. Seems to do everything we need, but looks like it was made for a TRS80.
Framing POS: Have not gotten the chance to investigate yet. Hopefully I can look tomorrow.
Life Saver: Seems the most similar to Frame Ready of what we've seen. We are less likely to use them as their company is causing our need to change.

My previous employer didn't use computers at all in day to day operations, so I am used to handwriting on a order form what I need, then either using the online Order option of each vendor, or emailing/calling it in.
I also don't keep a tight track on inventory, as it is easy enough to look at what I have on hand. I am not of the mindset to tell the program that I needed to use 3 sheets of a mat when it expected me to use one, or that I was able to use scrap when it expected me to use 2 sheets. That seems more tedious than just using my eyes to see what I have in labelled locations.
Can someone explain why having the POS make your Purchase Orders is beneficial, and what the downsides are?

 

[Tato Karlo]

I am currently trying to find the time to review our options for a Frame Ready successor.

Current Competitors are:
Virtual Framer: Totally different design methodology. Lots of options.
Specialty Soft: Very Simplified. Seems to do everything we need, but looks like it was made for a TRS80.
Framing POS: Have not gotten the chance to investigate yet. Hopefully I can look tomorrow.
Life Saver: Seems the most similar to Frame Ready of what we've seen. We are less likely to use them as their company is causing our need to change.

My previous employer didn't use computers at all in day to day operations, so I am used to handwriting on a order form what I need, then either using the online Order option of each vendor, or emailing/calling it in.
I also don't keep a tight track on inventory, as it is easy enough to look at what I have on hand. I am not of the mindset to tell the program that I needed to use 3 sheets of a mat when it expected me to use one, or that I was able to use scrap when it expected me to use 2 sheets. That seems more tedious than just using my eyes to see what I have in labelled locations.
Can someone explain why having the POS make your Purchase Orders is beneficial, and what the downsides are?

I'll write a lot of words here again. I understand the old way of working very well.
Writing orders by hand, seeing what's actually on the shelf, and ordering directly from suppliers can work perfectly in a small workshop where the same people do the same work every day.
Besides, it's a great memory trainer. Perhaps even better than any dementia prevention program.
But my feeling is this:
Memory is not a business system.
A POS system is useful not because it knows better than a framer. It doesn't. A good framer will often know better than a program, especially when it comes to trimmings, mat consumption, substitutions, and strange real-life situations.
The value of creating supplier orders through a POS is different.
It provides a record.
You see what was ordered, from whom, when, for which customer order, at what price, and whether it was received. This can reduce missed items, duplicate orders, forgotten backorders, incorrect suppliers, outdated prices, and "I thought we had that" moments.
It also provides a history.
Over time, you can see which baguettes are actually selling, which suppliers are too expensive to ship, which items are freezing up cash, which orders were profitable, and which clever ideas are quietly destroying your margins.
For a family-run workshop with one or two people, this may seem unnecessary.
But as soon as employees arrive, growth, illness, vacation, a new employee, a busy season, or someone else needs to understand what's going on, the system becomes less a matter of convenience and more a matter of survival.
The downsides are real, too.
A poor POS system can create more work than it saves.
Inventory control can become a fantasy if no one updates it properly.
The software often doesn't understand real scraps.
Passe-partout calculations can be annoying.
Setup takes time. And the "garbage in, garbage out" rule still applies.
Therefore, I wouldn't say that every workshop must create supplier orders via POS.
I would say this:
If the workshop is small, stable, and managed by people who really know their warehouse, manual orders can work.
But if you want a better history, cleaner purchasing, easier employee training, more accurate costs, and less reliance on one person's memory, then ordering from POS can be very useful.
Not because the program replaces the framer.
But because it protects the framer from having to remember everything forever.

 

[alacrity8]

I'll write a lot of words here again. I understand the old way of working very well.
Writing orders by hand, seeing what's actually on the shelf, and ordering directly from suppliers can work perfectly in a small workshop where the same people do the same work every day.
Besides, it's a great memory trainer. Perhaps even better than any dementia prevention program.
But my feeling is this:
Memory is not a business system.
A POS system is useful not because it knows better than a framer. It doesn't. A good framer will often know better than a program, especially when it comes to trimmings, mat consumption, substitutions, and strange real-life situations.
The value of creating supplier orders through a POS is different.
It provides a record.
You see what was ordered, from whom, when, for which customer order, at what price, and whether it was received. This can reduce missed items, duplicate orders, forgotten backorders, incorrect suppliers, outdated prices, and "I thought we had that" moments.
It also provides a history.
Over time, you can see which baguettes are actually selling, which suppliers are too expensive to ship, which items are freezing up cash, which orders were profitable, and which clever ideas are quietly destroying your margins.
For a family-run workshop with one or two people, this may seem unnecessary.
But as soon as employees arrive, growth, illness, vacation, a new employee, a busy season, or someone else needs to understand what's going on, the system becomes less a matter of convenience and more a matter of survival.
The downsides are real, too.
A poor POS system can create more work than it saves.
Inventory control can become a fantasy if no one updates it properly.
The software often doesn't understand real scraps.
Passe-partout calculations can be annoying.
Setup takes time. And the "garbage in, garbage out" rule still applies.
Therefore, I wouldn't say that every workshop must create supplier orders via POS.
I would say this:
If the workshop is small, stable, and managed by people who really know their warehouse, manual orders can work.
But if you want a better history, cleaner purchasing, easier employee training, more accurate costs, and less reliance on one person's memory, then ordering from POS can be very useful.
Not because the program replaces the framer.
But because it protects the framer from having to remember everything forever.

Our current system ordering system is as follows:
A clipboard for W.O.s of frames from stock moulding
A clipboard for W.O.s of frames from special order material
A clipboard for mats, glass, and other non stock items.
Twice a week (two different delivery deadlines) we check mat and glass inventory and add anything we are low on to the items on the special order clipboard.
We check on low stock moulding every frame that we stock.
Place an order.

We do have the rare case of someone not writing down a special order mat, or putting the the W.O. on the wrong clipboard. This is an issue about once a quarter.
Perhaps using a POS supplied Purchase Order, that we heavily modify, would be useful.

 

[Tato Karlo]

Our current system ordering system is as follows:
A clipboard for W.O.s of frames from stock moulding
A clipboard for W.O.s of frames from special order material
A clipboard for mats, glass, and other non stock items.
Twice a week (two different delivery deadlines) we check mat and glass inventory and add anything we are low on to the items on the special order clipboard.
We check on low stock moulding every frame that we stock.
Place an order.

We do have the rare case of someone not writing down a special order mat, or putting the the W.O. on the wrong clipboard. This is an issue about once a quarter.
Perhaps using a POS supplied Purchase Order, that we heavily modify, would be useful.

If such a system has been in use for years and still works reliably, I would be very cautious before replacing it with a POS workflow just because the software says it can.
A workshop workflow isn't just about paperwork.
It's about habit, rhythm, memory, responsibility, and overall discipline.
And I especially want to emphasize rhythm. The rhythm of a workshop is like the beating of a heart. It's like music. When the rhythm is right, the workshop functions calmly and naturally. People know what to do, when to do it, where to put things, and how the next step works.
This rhythm is extremely important. Therefore, you need to be very careful about anything that could disrupt it and create an "arrhythmia" in the workshop.
Sometimes, historically established workshop processes are very difficult to fit into a third-party POS system. And not every "improvement" is truly an improvement. Sometimes it simply moves work from a desk to a keyboard.
If an error occurs roughly once a quarter, I would first ask a practical question:
What is the real cost of this error? If the cost is low, the old system may already be good enough.
If an error causes delays, dissatisfied customers, lost money, or repeated stress, then yes, a supplier order created through the POS, even heavily customized, can be useful as a second level of control.
But I wouldn't throw out the tablet/folder system if it works. I'd likely keep the existing process and use the POS only where it truly adds value:
- as a purchase history;
- as a way to see what was ordered, when, for which order, and from which supplier.
But even this needs to be done very carefully.
It's very easy to create unnecessary work, unnecessary clicks, unnecessary checks, and unnecessary bureaucracy. And then the software no longer helps the shop—the shop begins to maintain the software.
For me, the main rule is simple:
Don't break a system that works. Improve around it.
A framer shouldn't spend half their life maintaining the software. The software should quietly serve the framer. And if it can't do that, then a folder on a tablet might still be a smarter machine.
I'm off to the depths of philosophy again
Going to bed...

 

[Shayla]

We only use POS for pricing and updates. None of the other bells & whistles, no inventory or card processing. All we want is an accurate pricing structure, with navigational ease of use.
We wish that i-Framer had a stronger presence in the US, as they're the best we've found. But, when we checked, they didn't have many US suppliers.

 

[alacrity8]

I am currently trying to find the time to review our options for a Frame Ready successor.

Current Competitors are:
Virtual Framer: Totally different design methodology. Lots of options.
Specialty Soft: Very Simplified. Seems to do everything we need, but looks like it was made for a TRS80.
Framing POS: Have not gotten the chance to investigate yet. Hopefully I can look tomorrow.
Life Saver: Seems the most similar to Frame Ready of what we've seen. We are less likely to use them as their company is causing our need to change.

My previous employer didn't use computers at all in day to day operations, so I am used to handwriting on a order form what I need, then either using the online Order option of each vendor, or emailing/calling it in.
I also don't keep a tight track on inventory, as it is easy enough to look at what I have on hand. I am not of the mindset to tell the program that I needed to use 3 sheets of a mat when it expected me to use one, or that I was able to use scrap when it expected me to use 2 sheets. That seems more tedious than just using my eyes to see what I have in labelled locations.
Can someone explain why having the POS make your Purchase Orders is beneficial, and what the downsides are?

Framing POS also seems pretty similarly to Frame Ready. It is cloud based and has newer features.

 

[Tato Karlo]

This discussion got me thinking about something broader than just a POS program.
I could be wrong, as I don't know the American market well enough, but from the outside, it sometimes seems like there are many excellent framing professionals, but a lack of common systems.
Each shop seems to have its own rhythm, its own purchasing habits, its own pricing logic, its own way of training people, and its own way of coping with mistakes.
Perhaps that's part of the beauty of this profession. But perhaps it's also part of its weakness.
In many other industries, when a business is struggling, there are people who can come in, inspect the entire operation, and create a practical plan for improvement: equipment, workflow, pricing, purchasing, inventory, marketing, competitors, staff training, software, and profitability.
I don't know if such a service exists in the US framing business. Perhaps it does, and I just don't know about it. But I have a feeling that many framing shops need more than just a new POS program. They need something closer to a full business health check.
Not just: "Which program should we use?" but:
Where are we wasting time?
Where are we losing money?
Which processes rely too heavily on one person's memory?
Which products are silently freezing up money?
What supplier habits are hurting us?
Which software features are truly useful, and which just create more work?
How can we maintain the natural rhythm of a shop while making it more manageable and profitable?
Perhaps the problem isn't that old paper-based systems are bad. And perhaps the problem isn't that the software is bad. Perhaps the real problem is that many shops are left alone and forced to invent their own business system from scratch.
That's a very difficult way to run a craft.
Sometimes I feel like custom framing is very fragmented. There are plenty of smoldering embers here, but there's a shortage of fresh wood, a shortage of young blood, and a shortage of people who help good workshops become truly strong businesses.
I could be wrong. I could be 100% wrong.

 

[Nikodeumus]

This discussion got me thinking about something broader than just a POS program.
I could be wrong, as I don't know the American market well enough, but from the outside, it sometimes seems like there are many excellent framing professionals, but a lack of common systems.
Each shop seems to have its own rhythm, its own purchasing habits, its own pricing logic, its own way of training people, and its own way of coping with mistakes.
Perhaps that's part of the beauty of this profession. But perhaps it's also part of its weakness.
In many other industries, when a business is struggling, there are people who can come in, inspect the entire operation, and create a practical plan for improvement: equipment, workflow, pricing, purchasing, inventory, marketing, competitors, staff training, software, and profitability.
I don't know if such a service exists in the US framing business. Perhaps it does, and I just don't know about it. But I have a feeling that many framing shops need more than just a new POS program. They need something closer to a full business health check.
Not just: "Which program should we use?" but:
Where are we wasting time?
Where are we losing money?
Which processes rely too heavily on one person's memory?
Which products are silently freezing up money?
What supplier habits are hurting us?
Which software features are truly useful, and which just create more work?
How can we maintain the natural rhythm of a shop while making it more manageable and profitable?
Perhaps the problem isn't that old paper-based systems are bad. And perhaps the problem isn't that the software is bad. Perhaps the real problem is that many shops are left alone and forced to invent their own business system from scratch.
That's a very difficult way to run a craft.
Sometimes I feel like custom framing is very fragmented. There are plenty of smoldering embers here, but there's a shortage of fresh wood, a shortage of young blood, and a shortage of people who help good workshops become truly strong businesses.
I could be wrong. I could be 100% wrong.

I think you have summarized it quite well.
I'm fairly certain (in my local area at least), every framing shop is run differently.
We all come at it from different skill sets and experiences.
Ideally, we would all have the "perfect" set of skills to be a succesful as possible.
Some folks are "better" at certain aspects of the business than others.

That's one difference between independent shops and corporate "big box chain" shops.
The chain shops have a cookie cutter system primarily focused on the numbers, and perhaps less so on the "craftsmanship" side.
Most independents have figured out their own paths.
And I suspect most started on the "craftsmanship" side rather than the numbers side.
How many people open a frame shop thinking "This will make me rich!"
As opposed to thinking "I like being creative." "I love art", "I'm good at making things", etc.

I get customers who have come to me from a different local shop for one reason or another.
Usually it is because they didn't like some aspect of their interaction.
It might be pricing, materials selection, workmanship, customer service, or who knows what.
I wouldn't be surprised if at least a small number of my customers went somewhere else after they tried me.
It's just a likely statistic.
Customers shop around for a "good fit" for their personal criteria.

We aren't all the same. And that's a good thing in my opinion.

 

[Nikodeumus]

I'm straying way of the OP.
I'm also trying to figure out a replacement for FrameReady.
Very disappointed in the developments, but the writing was on the wall when it changed hands a while back.
I too do not use most of the "bells and whistles".
Mostly I'm really miffed that all the replacement options are a significant increase in monthly costs at little additional benefit for my needs.

Primarily I just want a pricing calculator and intake/output record, and a few reports.
All my inventory is visible from standing in one place. Don't need a computer to tell me what I have.
There are no other employees, and won't ever be more.
I order supplies from 3 vendors weekly and have no problem with a clipboard.

So, the system I have had in place for years works pretty well for me.
A forced transition, at a higher cost, is not conducive to keeping a good workflow.

 

[alacrity8]

I'm straying way of the OP.
I'm also trying to figure out a replacement for FrameReady.
Very disappointed in the developments, but the writing was on the wall when it changed hands a while back.
I too do not use most of the "bells and whistles".
Mostly I'm really miffed that all the replacement options are a significant increase in monthly costs at little additional benefit for my needs.

Primarily I just want a pricing calculator and intake/output record, and a few reports.
All my inventory is visible from standing in one place. Don't need a computer to tell me what I have.
There are no other employees, and won't ever be more.
I order supplies from 3 vendors weekly and have no problem with a clipboard.

So, the system I have had in place for years works pretty well for me.
A forced transition, at a higher cost, is not conducive to keeping a good workflow.

Looking at the numbers, it seems that all of the Non-Cloud-Based software have a larger startup fee, then a Monthly/Annual fee, while the Cloud-Based seems to just have the Monthly/Annual fee.
Specialty Soft seems to have the least expensive Update pricing of the Non-Cloud-Based, while Framing POS seems to be the least expensive Cloud-Based.
I tried contacting another Non-Cloud-Based option that I had never heard of (listed on Lifesaver's website as one of the top POS for Framers), and have heard nothing back after a week.

 

[alacrity8]

Looking at the numbers, it seems that all of the Non-Cloud-Based software have a larger startup fee, then a Monthly/Annual fee, while the Cloud-Based seems to just have the Monthly/Annual fee.
Specialty Soft seems to have the least expensive Update pricing of the Non-Cloud-Based, while Framing POS seems to be the least expensive Cloud-Based.
I tried contacting another Non-Cloud-Based option that I had never heard of (listed on Lifesaver's website as one of the top POS for Framers), and have heard nothing back after a week.

The other Non-Cloud Based option I had looked into got back to me.
EZ Framer looks to work pretty similar to Frame Ready.