Help Glue on Metal

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corigami

corigami

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I took in an old Moroccan metal tray. The customer wants to hang it on the wall but does not want to use one of those plate hangers with the springs on the back. In the past, I have used a two part epoxy on Italian clay platters with success. But these adhesives are not working on this aluminum-like metal. I have tried J-B Stick (2 part Tootsie Roll like, mash together until blended) and Devcon Home 5 minute epoxy (2 part hypodermic mix it up type) but after a couple hours of curing, I can pull the D-rings off. I think I will give this job back to the customer with their money. (I surely didn't charge enough for this one.) Thanks for any advice.
 
E-6000?
 
You did not give us a size and weight of the tray.

I would not trust an adhesive to hold a metal tray onto a wall. If the objection to the premade plate hangers is that that they are flimsy (they are), I would make my own with a heavier gauge wire that has shrink wrap on the ends of the wire to prevent scratching of the tray. If they do not like that idea, return their money.
 
JFeig said:
You did not give us a size and weight of the tray.

I would not trust an adhesive to hold a metal tray onto a wall. If the objection to the premade plate hangers is that that they are flimsy (they are), I would make my own with a heavier gauge wire that has shrink wrap on the ends of the wire to prevent scratching of the tray. If they do not like that idea, return their money.
Click to expand...

The tray is 30" and is 4.5 lbs. The tray is already pretty scratched and beat up. They don't want to see the wire holder. I'm going to try the E6000 and if it doesn't hold, I'll offer again the spring/wire holder. I have one for large items like this. Thank you so much for your help.
 
I, too, would not trust any adhesive on this job.

you may well find that E6000 (whatever that is) will hold it Now, in your workshop but what about months or years down the track? How will the bond be affected by changes in temperature and the natural expansion/contraction of the metal which results? Another consideration is that if the adhesive bonds permanently you are committing the cardinal sin of changing the artwork irreversibly. Who knows , it may turn out to be valuable and then you would be in the firing line for that.

The customer and you would be better served by sitting it on a small easel on a shelf or sideboard.
 
Yep, that's the thing with adhesives. You never know when they are going to give up the ghost and when they do they give no warning. Might be a week, might be 200 years, but sooner or later....
 
E-6000 has a 72 hour cure rate. If you test it before then it is more prone to failure.
It is also not recommended for use around plastics including polypropylene (coroplast).

It is carcinogenic and I recommend wearing gloves. Getting it on your skin is bad news.

It is solvated with Tetrachloroethylene (which is used as dry cleaning fluid) and is carcinogenic.

From the MSDS:

CARCINOGENICITY:

NTP CARCINOGEN: Yes

IARC MONOGRAPHS: Yes

OSHA REGULATED; No

Tetrachloroethylene is listed as potential carcinogen by IARC & NTP. Results of in virto Mutagenicity tests have been negative. Prudent handling practices should be followed to minimize human exposure.

WARNING ! CAUSES RESPIRATORY TRACT, EYE AND SKIN IRRITATION. CONTAINS MATERIAL THAT CAN CAUSE TARGET ORGAN DAMAGE. SUSPECT CANCER HAZARD - CONTAINS MATERIAL WHICH MAY CAUSE CANCER.

VENTILATION Adequate ventilation should be provided to keep vapor concentrations below acceptable exposure guidelines. Use only with adequate ventilation.

PROTECTIVE GLOVES Gloves are recommended. Neoprene-latex gloves have been used satisfactorily.

http://eclecticproducts.com/downloads/sds-e6000-clear-english.pdf
 
corigami said:
The tray is 30" and is 4.5 lbs. The tray is already pretty scratched and beat up. They don't want to see the wire holder. I'm going to try the E6000 and if it doesn't hold, I'll offer again the spring/wire holder.
Click to expand...
As suggested by others above, adhesives seldom provide the best solution for hanging. Under gravitational stress, either of the two surfaces could disintegrate, the adhesive could fail to bond to one of them, or the adhesive itself could fail. In most of the adhesive bonding failures I have seen, the adhesive itself did not fail, but one of the surfaces did.

If you were to fabricate a custom hanging device using pieces of spring-steel music wire (aka piano wire), there would be no reason to use springs, and the wires could be formed to fit the contours of the tray. Connect the wires by wrapping their intersections with wire (copper works well) and soldering, or wrapping with sturdy string and soaking with an adhesive such as cyanoacrylate (aka CA glue, aka Super Glue). Cover the wires' support points with heat-shrink tubing to prevent damage to the tray and paint it to match.
 
I think the way I would go if faced with no choice but to glue would be to glue a piece of 1/2" ply to the back - thus giving the max glue area. Then just screw d-rings to the wood. Or use a thinner piece and rivet the d-rings though the ply prior to bonding. It depends on whether the glue bond will degrade simply with age or by virtue of the chronic load it's under.

But lets take the worst-case scenario. What if the durn thing did fall off the wall? What's the worst that can happen? As long as it's not hung above a bunch of priceless objects it's not going to create too much mayhem on the way down. It's metal so it's not going to break. Slight ding maybe if over a hard floor. It's not a massively heavy thing so it's hardly going to injure the person who just happens to be underneath it at the precise moment it falls. :confused: Sometimes I think we worry too much. :cool:
 
Some adhesives work well, think of Bond-o or lead used to repair a car, or concrete to adhere bricks, if done properly it can last a very long time.

We just did a project similar to what you describe. There was no collective value just a disposable decoration. (30x30 metal plate)

Procedure
3x5 x 1/8 aluminum plate, with a mega saw tooth mounted to that plate. (The plate was drilled and taped to use four 6x32 1/4 screws to mount the saw tooth hanger, washers were needed to make the screws flush with back of plate)
The area where the plate was to be installed was taped off, cleaned with lacquer thinner and sanded, so was the plate.
JB Weld (2part paste in tubes, 24 HR. cure time) was the adhesive.
Note, that by using a flush mount hanging system you are taking full advantage of the shear strength abilities of the adhesive.
 
IF reversibility is needed would this be a use for silicone or a latex caulk? Put onto a large plate backing then the d-rings attached to that would increase the surface area the adhesive would have to bond with.
 
If you have a metal shop nearby, ask if you can buy some 3M "VHB" tape. You may have to devise something other than D-rings...something with more surface area...maybe the D-rings riveted to a piece of sheet metal and join the sheet metal to the back of the tray? That being said, I put a 3 hole D-ring on the back of one of those giant 3 foot aluminum spoons with the VHB tape and a little epoxy around the edge, and it's still holding 5 years later...hanging out in the elements too!
 
Hey, I'm not dead yet......Been using E-6000 for years now,great for metal to metal,least on small to medium stuff.Course I also eat bacon,and use artificial sweetner,cast resin in the house,play with epoxies,and routinely stick the wrong end of paintbrushes in my mouth(not tasty),so...it's a race to see what kills me first ;) .L
 
Jeff Rodier said:
Automobile body filler AKA Bondo
Click to expand...

I had a car many years ago that I a pretty sure was 90% Bondo. I figure with all that adhesive I didn't have to worry about it separating from the chassis.
 
Thanks everyone! The E6000 is holding after 24 hrs. The two part epoxy types came off with a little tug. This is a beat up old tray that is the quality of a hubcap. I would love to do the piano wire method, but I haven't charged enough. I will explain to the customer what I've done and advise her of the options. Thanks again!
 
Welding?
 
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