Opinions Wanted Finishing some hardwood frames I made myself and a couple questions ?

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Modigity

Modigity

CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2
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Hey you grumbles would like to get some opinions and maybe some suggestions on some frames I'm working on. I am doing some (close corner I believe) frames out of wenge and zebra wood and was wondering how you would finish them. I was thinking for the wenge not really staining it but just something clear that would protect it but not take away from the natural beauty of the wood. Any suggestions? As for the zebra wood would like to do one like the wenge and maybe stain one but not sure what to use. Any help is always appreciated.
 
No doubt I'm in the minority, but I am extremely fond of shellac, particularly blond and garnet. I suggest buying de-waxed flake, start with a 1 lb. cut, then thin until it flows like water. Many many coats, but you can do two or three or four a day.

Being the traditionalist, I usually fill the grain with rottenstone.

It requires more technique than many other options, but there's really nothing like it for clarity, brilliance, or the way it can bring out the grain.In my experience, the various 'problems' associated with shellac really aren't issues at all with picture frames.
 
One thing you will want to think about is how the color of the wood will change with the different types of finishes. Wenge is already a very dark wood, and I've found that some finishes that have a slightly yellow tint (most lacquers and shellacs and polyurethanes) will cause the wood to look even darker and almost almost "muddy" -- the distinct grain will not stand out and the wood will look just like a very dark wood without a pronounced grain pattern.

I used water based polyurethane on a large 4in. wide frame (24x30) made from wenge for that reason - it enriched the color of the wood without making it so dark that the grain pattern didn't stand out.
 
I start out by sanding them up to 600 (150, 220, 300, 600) grit sand paper. Then finish with Danish Oil, per instructions, then wax it.
 
If these are going to stay in your control for the life of their usefulness, then by
all means go with the easy out of oil.

What most non-woodworkers (true Knotheads) don't know is the old adage of

"once a day for a week,
once a week for a month,
once a month for a year
once a year for a life time."
(oil breaks down and needs to be replenished.. and it also attracts dust)

If you plan to distribute these to the unknowing public....

go with the durable. (and I'm with Smith on this.... Shellac is a poor choice)

You can shoot polyurethane.... but even if you atomize it.... the best it will shoot
is 220 grit. So don't waste your time sanding higher. Apply a few coats then
wet block sand to 400, and wax.

But if you want it to have a natural look.... 180, and get your hands on some
Good Stuff..... wipe it down, rubbing it in, and whip off. Second coat in about
2 hours.... Steel wool the next morning and wipe on a last thin coat and
wipe off as a buffing. Done.

As for stain...... universals with alcohol.... but only if you want to do wild like
purple or RED.... natural colors just muddy the look you paid premium $$
for in the wood.
It would be like (IMHO) water gilding in 23kt and then painting it brown.
 
Thanks guys as for the Wenge I am really looking to keep it natural looking just trying to enhance the grain as its spoken for and have just enough for the one frame. But the Zebrawood I have quite a bit and am thinking of doing a few differents looks.
 
Oh and Baer what do you mean by "The Good Stuff"?
as most of my staining and finishing experience is in the construction side of things.
 
Tung oil, thinned with citrus solvent is nice, but my favorite is good quality shellac and wax. For wood, where I want a "wood" look, I use shellac as a penetrating finish, not a surface coating, then apply wax with 4 ought steel wool. Wax is rubbed off immediately, giving a very thin coat, which can be repeated. Button lacs, which are melted to form the buttons, are very durable and water resistant, as the heat polymerizes the shellac. I spray shellac, but for a penetrating type finish, I wipe the shellac on using a nylon stocking, thinned of course to about 1 lb. cut or less. A quick "faux" oil finish.

Here, good info, and products.: http://www.shellac.net/ShellacPricing.html

Zinsser, clear or amber are fine products if one doesn't feel compulsive, but there you need to buy from someplace that turns over the stock. Zinsser used to date the product, though I don't think so any more, but fresher is better.

Here an example of a shellac and wax finish, on black walnut: http://bronislausjanulis.com/Site/Rocker_1.html
 
Steel Wool with Wenge? You will never get it our of the pores!
 
Baer probably means this stuff.....




h2372.jpg

Description
For bare wood surfaces, this fast drying synthetic oil has been formulated to enhance the natural look of wood. The dry film is non-toxic, alcohol resistant and FDA approved for food contact.1 Quart
 
Randy,

I've never used Wenge; I tend towards domestic lumber. There are steel wools of much higher quality than the standard hardware store stuff, but if I'm having issues I'll go to nylon abrasive pads. Still problems, sand and apply wax with a cloth or a brush. I don't work from a rigid formula, but from responding to the situation at hand.

And, just another point, Wenge and Zebrawood are both woods that are on lists of endangered species, mainly due to destruction of the rainforests, I think. One of the reasons I push my clients towards renewable, non-destructively harvested species. Just sayin ...
 
I would do just wax. Fill up the pores and wax it, wood is beautiful on it own.
 
Did not know that about steel wool, but I did of course know the rest about Wenge, the particles are also slightly toxic when sanding, with similar effects as poison ivy. I haven't placed and order from the mill for Wenge in about 15 to 20 years, not only is it's habitat being destroyed from over forestation, it was impossible to get when the civil war in the Congo was going on years ago. Now everyone pretty much uses ebonized walnut.
 
Gilder,

A variation on my finish is just using the shellac as a sealer, to keep the wax from soaking in and disappearing. Part of my reason for the shellac and wax, rather than oil and wax, well, ... I'm lazy. Shhh. Oiling wood is time and labor intensive. I recently did some counter tops with Tung oil; apply, wait, wipe, repeat, ad infinitum. I've done gun stocks the same way, and as Baer mentions, it is ad infinitum. For a high sheen with Tung oli, if you can find it, polymerized Tung oil is the way to go, but some of the commercial products that claim to be Tung aren't. Go figure.

I've had very good results with shellac, and real Tung oil; and not so good with some of the urethanes, etc. etc., but YMMV.
 
Bron said:
Gilder,

A variation on my finish is just using the shellac as a sealer, to keep the wax from soaking in and disappearing. Part of my reason for the shellac and wax, rather than oil and wax, well, ... I'm lazy. Shhh. Oiling wood is time and labor intensive. I recently did some counter tops with Tung oil; apply, wait, wipe, repeat, ad infinitum. I've done gun stocks the same way, and as Baer mentions, it is ad infinitum. For a high sheen with Tung oli, if you can find it, polymerized Tung oil is the way to go, but some of the commercial products that claim to be Tung aren't. Go figure.

I've had very good results with shellac, and real Tung oil; and not so good with some of the urethanes, etc. etc., but YMMV.
Click to expand...

Bron,
if you apply shellac first than you need to send the frame again. Or not? Shellac in my opinion is good
on raw wood if it French polished, otherwise it looks cheap. And don't get me wrong, I love shellac.
I am not big fan of Tung oil, it's kinda boring, linseed oil would be a better choice especially on red wood. If you fill up pores with shellac then you lose the opportunity to create a design since shellac is transparent, well not exactly but still sort of. And dark filler in pores will create it, then wax simply unite it all together.
Urethanes? I never use them. I hate men made product, it's ugly, doesn't last long. Cannot be restored. Nasty stuff.
 
Tung oil is safer than linseed oil; raw linseed oil won't dry, and so called boiled linseed oil is just raw with a metallic dryer added. The dryer is poisonous. French polish is a surface build up of shellac; what I'm doing is in the wood, not on it, thus the grain and open pores are still there. In my first post there is a link to a rocking chair that is finished this way, and as you point out, the finish is repairable, as is tung oil. Cheap, nah, I think it looks great. Try it. And a shellac tip, if it seems to being drying to fast as you're wiping it on: a few drops of, again, high quality pure turpentine, will retard the drying of shellac. Unfortunately, the best turpentine is hard to find, and my old mentor was having his "imported" from Canada, clean smelling, water white, pure gum spirits of turpentine. Should smell like pine trees, sweet.
 
I worked extensively with oils and yes they don't dry, they polymerize. But oil could be diluted with turpentine and in a few days the piece could be handled. I usually do 50/50. I never buy ready made shellac, it doesn't make any sense, put flakes in a jar and add alcohol takes less than a minute than you know it always fresh. I do French Polish if needed. Beautiful finish, nothing better on wood, but never done it on frames. Wax is a very simple and beautiful solution for frames if they are done in such a rich wood.
P.S. Bron, that's a nice chair and finish looks great.
 
I would be a tad wary of using oil on a frame. Reason: I once put a matted print on a beechwood easel that had been finished with oil and within hours the oil had migrated a good few inches up the mat.

:icon9:

A good buffing with wax is all a lot of really dense woods need.
 
Hey Guys thanks for all the advice and tips andd thanks to you figured out how I should do it. I got one more coat to put on it and its looking great, I went with Baers idea and used "Good Stuff" I will post some picks later. I also wanted to say I didn't know about the endagerment of these woods before I bought them but did find out that ast least the Zebra wood was farmed so felt a little less carppy about that. I am a little more informed now for future purchases.
 
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