Cutting Crescent RagMat

copper

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Jul 30, 2010
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17
I am having trouble getting a clean cut on the face of Crescent RagMat (#1610). Even with a brand new blade, the face wants to get a little fuzzy along the cut edge. Is this characteristic of this stuff or am I not holding my mouth right?

This is starting to #### me off...

Dean
 
I used to have the same problem with the Crescent 1100 series rags.
Even with a band new blade it was like cutting through compressed Kleenex. I just try to not use that line. Sand it and bone it otherwise.
:kaffeetrinker_2:
 
Thanks for the data. Good to know but I wish it wasn't so. I got several sheets of this stuff as part of the "Keep America Beautiful" promotion. Phoey!
 
I used to have the same problem with the Crescent 1100 series rags.
Even with a band new blade it was like cutting through compressed Kleenex. I just try to not use that line. Sand it and bone it otherwise.
:kaffeetrinker_2:

Good advice. I have had trouble with these too.
 
I use Crescent 1610 almost exclusively for my photographer customers. I found that if you use a slip sheet/mat under the mat you are cutting, #1610 cuts very clean. I normally do not use a slip sheet/mat when I cut on my C&H.
 
I use Crescent 1610 almost exclusively for my photographer customers. I found that if you use a slip sheet/mat under the mat you are cutting, #1610 cuts very clean. I normally do not use a slip sheet/mat when I cut on my C&H.

I've used a slip sheet under every mat I've cut for 41 years. It's also a good idea to keep moving the slip sheet and change it often so you don't cut in the same groove.
 
I've used a slip sheet under every mat I've cut for 41 years. It's also a good idea to keep moving the slip sheet and change it often so you don't cut in the same groove.

Same here for 31 years. This is one of the most common solutions to less than perfect mats. As far as the original post we have no idea what kind of mat cutter and whether a slip sheet is being used.
 
Thanks for the info. I "was" looking at Crescent matboards a few days ago and was considering stocking a few colors in the near future, but, after reading several complaints, i think i will kill the idea and stick to Bainbridge, Peterboro, and Artique. I only have about 100 (mostly Bainbridge) sheet total, but as i get closer to doing only framing, i want to start stocking a lot more sheets. Thanks again.
 
This problem with crumbly bevels started a couple of years ago and was discussed on here at some length. Crescent said they had resolved it and once the bad boards had "washed through the system" all would be well. I switched to Bainbridge as a result of this. However, a couple of Crescent rag matts I have used recently still do not cut anywhere near as well as Bainbridge so it seems they have a bit more work to do on this problem.
 
I wonder why I have never had a problem with Crescent Rag Mats? I use the 1100 series a great deal and the 1400, 1500, 1600 and 1700's a little less often, all purchased from LJ. (Wizard 8000 with fresh blades and slipsheets.)
 
Pat you must be especially blessed by the Powers that Be because even I, with a fresh Hendrixson blade and a new piece of underlayment, have had many many problems with those Crescent boards over the last couple of years - they are as soft as toilet paper - and just as flimsy.

I am running into this problem less and less as I use up Crescents and have switched to Bainbridge. Although the problem is not in the colored Crescent rags, only the whites, in my experience.
 
Have been using Crescent mats for 25 years now and have only had that problem with the 1100 museum. Those boards are not sized and should really only be used for backing between art and a more rigid substrate. I have noticed a difference in the past 5 or so years with the core of their rag mats. My issues have been with board warpage not with the cutting. I cut mats by hand with a Fletcher 2200 & always use a slip sheet. It does concern me that Moorman fabrics are now available on select core.
 
I wonder why I have never had a problem with Crescent Rag Mats? I use the 1100 series a great deal and the 1400, 1500, 1600 and 1700's a little less often, all purchased from LJ. (Wizard 8000 with fresh blades and slipsheets.)

Copper was asking for some help. This is not help.
 
I have used the Crescent Rags, lots of the 1100 series, and don't have a problem with the cut. I cut on a CMC and before cutting I always change the blade but before installing the blade I run it across a Barber's strap a couple of times just to get any manufacturer's burrs off the edge. I do use a slip sheet. I have never had a problem unless I use dull blades and then it is my fault not Crescents. Joe B
 
Joe has a good point. Bob Hendrixson used to teach mat cutting and suggested removing the burr with a hard Akansas white stone*. The blades are made in long ribbons, then cut to length. This process can leave a slight burr on the trailing edge.
Another trick with mats that tear is to put them in a heated vacuum press for 15 minutes or so. The heat and vacuum draw any residual humidity out of the board and make it easier to cut.
*not sure what this is equivalent to in the modern composit sharpening stone, but probably in the 4000 grit range.
 
Wally, or they could break loose with some cash and buy a set of Spyderco's and put an edge on their blades that a surgeon would be proud to use!! ;) (For the benefit of neilframer, I wasn't trying to help, I was being facetious. One Spyderco ceramic stone will cost more than many many boxes of mat cutter blades!)

It seems that people lose track of what real workmanship involves sometimes in their rush to get something done within a deadline but, in this supposedly "perfect" world we have today things don't always go exactly perfectly when hand crafting items. Every so often you have to take a piece of fine sandpaper and touch up an edge or tweak some minor adjustment that may have gotten out of kilter on your mechanical cutter or CMC or maybe adjust your stance or "draw" on your blade as you move your mat cutter through its paces.

Granted, Crescent board has historically been noted for being the "problem" child of the mat board lines but the other brands are far from problem free if you think about it. Nothing has been mentioned thus far about condition of the mat cutter, type of cutter, stance of the person doing the cutting, technique used to enter and exit the board with the blade, condition of the blade, number of cuts the blade has made, and so many other tiny little procedural points that can mean the difference in the quality of a mat cut.

Rag mat is one of the most difficult boards to cut and much of the difficulty lies in it's makeup and methods of manufacture. Rag mat is composed of cotton linters, small particles of cotton which are compressed together to make a board. There is very little structural strength in most 100% rag boards (compared to other types of mat boards), never has been, and probably never will if the integrity of the board is maintained for conservation purposes. The 1100 non-surfaced natural colored rag has a further problem in that it has no paper covering to "bind" the facing surface together so you are effectively pushing small particles of cotton rag out of the board itself if you don't use an absolutely sharp mat blade.

A slip sheet is something that a beginning basic framer is made aware of and is nothing new to the trade. I don't think I have ever known a professional framer who didn't use a slip sheet under a mat as a matter of normal procedure. Even when cutting stacked multiple mats, your first cut mat with fallout becomes your "slip sheet" for your next mat and so on. Maybe they are teaching the procedures differently today with all the computer technology changing the way we do things but sometimes it pays to listen to some of these "old timers" and stick you pride in your hip pocket for awhile and try something "new" that has been around for many years.

And, as a final note, we learned to take the time to examine each piece of cut mat, every leg of each mitered frame moulding, and each piece of glass to ensure that there are no tiny flubs that may have escaped our attention. That was a part of the job for us and it should still be a final "never break it" rule for anyone who wants to put out top quality work. I have sanded more beveled edges and tweaked more miters to make them "just right" and I have torn down, cleaned, and adjusted all of my equipment on a regular schedule so many times that I couldn't guess a number and it wasn't to impress anyone with how anal I was about having things right, it was my own personal work ethic and habits that I had formed over the years to make my work the very best that I knew how to offer my customers.

That was just how it was back then ...................
 
As an addendum to my post above, I am no longer in the framing field. I retired a few years ago and went almost batwing crazy sitting around playing the retired framer!! But I sold most all of my equipment to other framers on this forum and almost all of it was over 20 years old when they bought it. I was the original owner and had taken such good care of my stuff that I doubt they would have found any newer used equipment in any better condition than what they bought from me. Pride in workmanship and quality of work are good terms to put into one's vocabulary and into one's work habits.

I am now pursuing a career in large clock repair and restoration so I am still vitally aware of the importance of precision and proper use of tools and equipment and I carried my work ethic with me into a whole new realm of handiwork.
 
Funny: I've been having issues with Bainbridge lately due to their flimsiness (the sales reps are AWESOME, by the way -- ours is still on the company's tails regarding the issue); the boards are cutting--soft, for lack of a better word--on our Wizard and has very little support.

Crescent, on the other hand: I've been having nothing but great luck with them since they seemed to rectify the last issue; the XXXX10 production codes have been wonderful in comparison. I'd say check the production code on the KAB promotion; if they're XXXX09 or XXXX08, those were the ones I had issues with in the past with the ragged cutting. As I understand it (and I could be wrong) the KAB promotions are coming from the distributors, not Crescent direct, and it could be older stock.
 
I use Crescent 1610 almost exclusively for my photographer customers. I found that if you use a slip sheet/mat under the mat you are cutting, #1610 cuts very clean. I normally do not use a slip sheet/mat when I cut on my C&H.

I agree on not having a problem. I also use a slip sheet, but I buy paper mats as the slip sheet - some strange color so I never get confused about it being only used as a slip sheet.

I also use a single edge blade, 1200 SE, and change them with every new mat (basically 16 cuts with a double mat and a v-groove).
 
Russ,

Good common sense shown by your post, I have always told others that to ruin an expensive rag mat for the sake of a 10¢ mat cutting blade is just pure nonsense! Change the blade and you will cut down considerably on the number of rough cuts and ruined mat openings that you make.

Regarding the mat used for a slip sheet, I usually saved the cutoffs from my mat boards and used them as long as they were at least 4" wide. I had good luck with rag slip sheets and I always kept a stack of 40" cutoffs nearby my mat cutter. If you buy boards for that purpose, you can easily get 8 slip sheets from one 32X40 board. Just don't set your blade too deep into the slip sheet and don't forget to change the sheet when they start to show wear. If you wait too long before changing your slip sheet, it could cause your blade to lodge in a track and cut off to one side and give you a crooked cut.

I used the 1200 SE blades almost exclusively during the time I was framing, at least since their inception by C&H. They cut smoothly and cleanly and, although you cannot use both ends of the blade, you get consistently even straight cuts as long as your mat cutter is properly tuned and kept calibrated.

FOR DEAN: I have been thinking about your original question and something jumped up in my addled mind about your problem! Have you ever had any trouble with warpage on your mat cutter bed (the bottom board that the cutter is mounted onto)? Also, there is a slight possibility that your tracking bar may be slightly warped enough to not allow your mat blade to cut completely through from start to finish of the cut.

If you want to play around with your cutter, give this a try: set your blade to just cut through a piece of 40" scrap mat and leave nothing more than a scratch on the slip sheet. Do this at the beginning of your cut and make sure that the blade is only scratching the slip sheet, this is important. Now, taking a proper stance at the end of your cutter, reach forward and grasp the cutter head as you would normally do, put whatever amount of pressure you normally use on the head and draw it toward you in a smooth even stroke as you would do to make a cut. Examine the scratch on the slip sheet after you finish, is it consistently even from end to end? Is there any spots where the blade may not have left a scratch at all or also spots where it had penetrated deeper than just a scratch. You probably can imagine what this will show you, the cut should be consistent from end to end if your mat cutter base board is flat and the cutting bar is straight. If not, you may have a problem with uneven depth of penetration of your blade which could cause a fuzzy problem and a ragged cut if it goes too shallow in spots and doesn't sever the facing of the board cleanly.

Just a random thought .......................

If you have questions, email me.
 
Wow! I had no idea what I was touching off...

To answer a couple of the questions: I am using a Fletcher 2100 with a .012 blade and a slip sheet underneath. The pattern is one of the surface layer slightly separating from the core along the cut line and thus bunching up. The comment about kleenex is pretty accurate.

The 'burr on the blade' idea is an interesting one. I will give it a try and see if it makes a difference.

I have been thinking about your original question and something jumped up in my addled mind about your problem! Have you ever had any trouble with warpage on your mat cutter bed (the bottom board that the cutter is mounted onto)? Also, there is a slight possibility that your tracking bar may be slightly warped enough to not allow your mat blade to cut completely through from start to finish of the cut.

While I haven't tried this particular experiment, I am pretty sure that that it is cutting cleanly through all along the cut

Thanks for all the help!

Dean
 
This problem with crumbly bevels started a couple of years ago and was discussed on here at some length. Crescent said they had resolved it and once the bad boards had "washed through the system" all would be well. I switched to Bainbridge as a result of this. However, a couple of Crescent rag matts I have used recently still do not cut anywhere near as well as Bainbridge so it seems they have a bit more work to do on this problem.

Glad to hear others had the same experience - I switched to Bainbridge a couple years ago and have not had any issues. But, last week I had still had some sheets of Crescent lying around so I framed something for myself - back to the ragged edges! To be fair, Crescent may have attempted to fix the problem, but my sheets are older stock.
 
I have noticed they do cut a little better with a manual cutter rather than a cmc.


I thought that too. Back when this problem first arose I resurrected my Fletcher and tried cutting a few matts with it for comparison purposes. What I discovered was that the pivoting action of the blade caused a distinct crumbling of the card in the nick of the corner. The bevel looked a little cleaner but closer inspection showed that in reality it only looked better because the steeper angle of the cut exposed less of the core to view.

I was quite annoyed that Crescent, while acknowledging the problem, did not recall the faulty matts. Letting them wash through the system meant that, in all probability, some of the lesser used colours are still lurking on shelves waiting to stuff up jobs.
 
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