Hi guys. I'm looking to get a couple of small prints framed and could use a little help. I love the look of borderless frames (the kind that basically sandwich the print between a hard backing and a piece of plexiglass, with clips around the edges holding it together), but I'm assuming they do nothing when it comes to protection. I'm wondering if there are any alternatives that have the borderless look but will still preserve the prints, or if I even have to worry about protecting them. They aren't particularly valuable, but I'd like to keep them in as good condition as possible. Any help would be great!
Question Borderless Frames?
- Thread starter jaydot
- Start date
You can still properly hinge mount and mat prints and use a clip frame. Uniframe or Eubank frames will both work. If you use acrylic glazing (Plexiglas or Acrylite) you will have to provide certain rigidity in the backer. If you use glass it will provide the necessary support.
The down side is that this does not provide a physical barrier aaginst dust and vermin, and the exposed edges of the glass have a certain liability.
The down side is that this does not provide a physical barrier aaginst dust and vermin, and the exposed edges of the glass have a certain liability.
I used to frame my stuff like that before I made a career of framing, since then they have all broken. Sorry, but regardless of the value I can not recommend a clip frame for anything other than the "employee of the month" and the last I saw Walmart was using a digital frames.
Why do people go to picture framers and say, "I don't want a picture frame."???
Just kidding, the question is a valid one. If the prints are of no particular value, and you just want them to decorate with, why not just put them in a clip frame? They will last as viable images for many years. By the time any damage is apparent, you probably will have stuck them out in the garage by then anyway.
You will outgrow the "cheap" look eventually, and want your home decorated a little nicer.
Our tastes change pretty much completely every seven or so years, that's why those are considered the shaky years for marriages.
Slap em in a clip frame and enjoy them.
John
Just kidding, the question is a valid one. If the prints are of no particular value, and you just want them to decorate with, why not just put them in a clip frame? They will last as viable images for many years. By the time any damage is apparent, you probably will have stuck them out in the garage by then anyway.
You will outgrow the "cheap" look eventually, and want your home decorated a little nicer.
Our tastes change pretty much completely every seven or so years, that's why those are considered the shaky years for marriages.
Slap em in a clip frame and enjoy them.
John
nikfrz
SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
I have a box full of the small uni-frames sitting around somewhere. I havent sold one in at least 5 years.
Wally's right about the vermin. I had a lady to bring one in a while back for rematting because of a squished spider. Couldnt talk her into a frame. Oh well, I'll probably see her again next year
Wally's right about the vermin. I had a lady to bring one in a while back for rematting because of a squished spider. Couldnt talk her into a frame. Oh well, I'll probably see her again next year
Jeff Rodier
SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
If they are for anything other than a throw away application use an acrylic box. There are numerous ways you can do them and have a life long display. Use the member list to find Acrylic Queen and she can provide you with everything you need.
You are assuming correctly. Moreover, what you describe as borderless frames actually represent a liability for anyone who sells them, because they eventually fall apart. The ones held together by spring clips fall apart when the spring tension weakens over time. The ones held together by strings fall apart when the strings deteriorate over time. And when they fall, there is nothing to contain the shards of shattering glass. Personal injury is the issue.
Using acrylic instead of glass helps because it is lighter and more resistant to shattering, but it is also more flexible and prone to bend under tension of the assembly. And it costs more than glass.
No, because the preservation value of a frame is directly associated with the fact that it is a tightly-closed package. No frame, no closure. Aside from resisting dirt and insects, the closed frame assembly also slows the rate of environmental temperature and humidity changes inside, reducing normal expansion/contraction cycles.
This contradiction represents your choices. You can display them in destructive borderless assemblies, or you can preserve them in closed frames.
I used to sell UniFrames, which consist of plastic clips and a cord to hold the assembly together. I stopped selling them more than a decade ago. If you are in central Ohio, I would be willing to hook you up with the few dusty UniFrames remaining in my store's inventory. I will not actually give them to you, as I might still be liable. But if you let me know which evening you will be coming aound, I will leave them out back by the dumpster for you. Seriously.
Jeff's suggestion of an acrylic box is a good one, if cost is not your concern. Acrylic boxes probably would end up costing you more than frames, but they could provide the borderless appearance you seek, and provide a tightly closed assembly for preservation. UV filtering glazing is recommended in any case.
pwalters
SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
As you can tell from the responses here, the "borderless frame" option of a uni-frame/frame clips isn't very popular. But, if you go into a custom framer near you and ask them to show you a Nielsen (metal) profile 33 frame, you might be happy with it's very narrow (3/16") face profile and be able to do right by your piece without a lot of frame showing.
GPoe
MGF, Master Grumble Framer
Craft/hobby stores have a foil tape that you could try sealing around the sides. Don't know that much about it but you would still be able to use your clips. It would, however, be difficult not to make it look like a home-made crafts project. You would probably be better off just using the clips by themselves or the best yet, is pwalter's suggestion of the Nielson profile 33. A professional, clean and modern look. Similar to that "frameless" look but MUCH classier.
N33 only comes in black and con grey now, fyi
Or you could try a 34 profile, which is even narrower.
If memory serves correctly, it still comes in black and
German Silver. Or the other one that's close to it.
They're deep, but the front width is even narrower
than the 33 profile.
If memory serves correctly, it still comes in black and
German Silver. Or the other one that's close to it.
They're deep, but the front width is even narrower
than the 33 profile.
7/32 (34) vs 3/16 (33). the 34 for has the elongated lip.
So it's 1/32" wider than the 33?
Well, throw me in the river and make me
swim to shore I was wrong. But glad to
learn this, just the same.
The last time I mentioned 34's, people said
they're just floater profiles, but although there's
a similar one that is a floater, the 34 isn't. I
really like that narrow lipped look.
Well, throw me in the river and make me
swim to shore I was wrong. But glad to
learn this, just the same.
The last time I mentioned 34's, people said
they're just floater profiles, but although there's
a similar one that is a floater, the 34 isn't. I
really like that narrow lipped look.
You could also use a thin frame that matches the wall color. That way it won't pull your eye away from the artwork...
OR, try getting some real custom work done, and see how good your artwork will look. Frames not only provide support, and security, but they can enhance the look of artwork.
OR, try getting some real custom work done, and see how good your artwork will look. Frames not only provide support, and security, but they can enhance the look of artwork.
I don't sell the clips anymore either. I still have a few customers who come back year after year to replace the mats, or the glass in them. But quite a few of those customers have now decided to go with the metal frames. One time expense; lasts a very long time.
They are narrow, some of them blend in completely with the art or the wall so they are not very noticeable. Stay away from the clips. You will have to have it redone every few years and it really doesn't look great at all.
They are narrow, some of them blend in completely with the art or the wall so they are not very noticeable. Stay away from the clips. You will have to have it redone every few years and it really doesn't look great at all.
Kirstie
PFG, Picture Framing God
We still sell Uni-Frames and Eubank Frames but we give the same advice as others have given here when we sell them. We are in a university area and students sometimes want them.
I can't tell you how many warped clip frames I have seen come back in to the shop. Most eventually get frames to correct the problem if the acrylic warping is not too bad.
Some like the frameless look of a sandwich frame with standoff sign hardware, but this is usually an expensive project and does not provide any more protection than a Uni-Frame.
We stopped selling Swiss Clips, the tiny metal clip ons because of structural concerns.
Our poster special package prices are on par with a Uni-Frame set up and this helps most people decide to use a metal frame instead.
I can't tell you how many warped clip frames I have seen come back in to the shop. Most eventually get frames to correct the problem if the acrylic warping is not too bad.
Some like the frameless look of a sandwich frame with standoff sign hardware, but this is usually an expensive project and does not provide any more protection than a Uni-Frame.
We stopped selling Swiss Clips, the tiny metal clip ons because of structural concerns.
Our poster special package prices are on par with a Uni-Frame set up and this helps most people decide to use a metal frame instead.
preservator
SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
"Framing" without a frame in not a good idea for safety reasons and trying to substitute an acrylic box for a frame for aesthetic reasons brings up questions of reflectance and light transmission that tend to defeat the purpose. Susan's idea of a modest frame painted to match the wall will be safe and aesthetically successful.
Hugh
Hugh
FrameMakers
PFG, Picture Framing God
I wonder if anyone has tried manufacturing a clear plastic moulding with a similar cross section of a metal frame.
What we need is Transparent Aluminum
What we need is Transparent Aluminum
GhostFramer
MGF, Master Grumble Framer
I have had a few requests lately for the clip frames. Until a few weeks ago it had been a very long time since I had last been asked for them. Is this a trend coming back around or are people just being cheap?
PaulSF
PFG, Picture Framing God
I would periodically get people in asking for "frameless" frames, so I stocked some uni-frames. Once I got the uni-frames in stock, two things happened. First, the number of people asking for frameless frames decreased dramatically. Second, whenever someone did come in and ask for a frameless frame, I would show them the uni-frame and they would say, "no, that's not what I'm looking for."
Never could sell any. I enjoyed putting them in the dumpster.
Never could sell any. I enjoyed putting them in the dumpster.
coreyd
Grumbler in Training
Hey jaydot, plexiglass frameless mounts are becoming more popular and is something we do quite a bit of. I'd say the biggest risk of preservation is during the mounting process itself which is why we prefer to work with a digital copy. We rarely agree to mount original prints with no digital copy because the process can be tricky and while rare, a print can be damaged.
ty_michael
Grumbler in Training
- Joined
- Dec 15, 2010
- Posts
- 2
I know these clip frames are not to popular 
but would anyone know where to purchase the clips alone. Like the MCS frames. I would love to be able to make my own sizes and save some money by having the clips.
Thanks.....
but would anyone know where to purchase the clips alone. Like the MCS frames. I would love to be able to make my own sizes and save some money by having the clips.Thanks.....
Build your own sandwich frame.
Two pieces of acrylic and standoffs for holding the pieces together and mounting it to the wall. You will need drills made for plastic to make the holes and smoothly cut acrylic. You won't be cutting the acrylic with your 3000/3100 and expect a decent edge. It needs to be cut on a table saw with an no-melt blade for plastics. The acrylic edges can be wet sanded and polished for a polished edge.
Just about anything reasonably thin can be done with this. You can usually do one mat. You can be do two mats if you are careful when tightening the standoffs as the acrylic will bend. I wouldn't do anything that requires archival methods; only decorative items.
Two pieces of acrylic and standoffs for holding the pieces together and mounting it to the wall. You will need drills made for plastic to make the holes and smoothly cut acrylic. You won't be cutting the acrylic with your 3000/3100 and expect a decent edge. It needs to be cut on a table saw with an no-melt blade for plastics. The acrylic edges can be wet sanded and polished for a polished edge.
Just about anything reasonably thin can be done with this. You can usually do one mat. You can be do two mats if you are careful when tightening the standoffs as the acrylic will bend. I wouldn't do anything that requires archival methods; only decorative items.
Jeff Rodier
SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Yo Gumby, what's an MCS frame.
Jeff Rodier
SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Thanks Ray, that was 30 seconds of my life I will never get back.
wvframer
SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
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A mat chosen to match the color of a small profile metal frame and a lite of museum glass or optium will fix you right up.
jim_p
SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
How about using a washer that's just a tidge thinner than the mat(s)?
That will work if the diameter of the washer is less than the standoff.
ty_michael
Grumbler in Training
- Joined
- Dec 15, 2010
- Posts
- 2
Build your own sandwich frame.
Two pieces of acrylic and standoffs for holding the pieces together and mounting it to the wall.
I like the standoff idea. I was just checking some more out. Definitely a cool option
What are these clips called. I tried to find them online but had no luck and I'm sure having no idea what they were called had a lot to do with it. I tried Michaels as well. They just pointed me to a rack of clips but no luck there either.
Jeff Rodier
SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Ty, Gumby's store is an art supply store so he can ship you what you need.
Miranda Smith
CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2
Build your own sandwich frame.
Two pieces of acrylic and standoffs for holding the pieces together and mounting it to the wall.
Sandwiching between two pieces of acrylic should only be done for short term, decorative items. The standoffs should not be spaced any more than 600mm apart. So a piece 1000mm wide, will require extra standoffs. Even using 6mm sheets of acrylic, I find the acrylic bows and lots of dust can get in. We used to do this a fair bit for hairdressers, etc. But over time we learnt it is too troublesome and no longer offer to sandwich, unless the client fully understands the issues. Face mounting onto the acrylic is a better option for a "frameless" appearance. Done correctly onto UV acrylic, this will last many years.