Attaching Stacks

[Shayla]

Thus far, we've used pin nailing as the method to join most stacked frames to each other. This involves laying both frames face down (on a cloud of angel feathers), with the smaller inside the larger (the other way around is trickier), shimming between the two with mat strips if needed, and nailing from the inner frame into the outer. Lately, I've designed a couple of stacks with a wide outer moulding (i.e. 4") and a narrow inner moulding (i.e. 1/2" wide across the back), and it's brought up a question from something else I do.

A couple of years ago, we switched from joining our frame fillets with glue in a vise and then laying them face down inside the inverted frames, gluing in with an effective yet somewhat Byzantine assortment of rubber bands and Fletcher points, then leaving to dry, to another method. Namely, cutting said fillet sticks a tad bit longer than the frame legs, gluing them in with Fletcher points but no rubber bands, (saving the planet, one unused rubber blob at a time), and leaving them to dry. Once they have dried, we (meaning, my husband) sand(s) the fillet ends to match the ends of the sticks, then joins the frame. For length, we of course glue the fillet into the whole stick, but we do a lot of chops, ergo the complication.

With this in mind, I've been wondering how it would work to apply the same method to stacking tiny frames inside large ones. This weeks is 40 x 53, with the aforementioned frame widths, and it seems that gluing the wee frame into the larger, then sanding to size might work pretty well. Then I recall the two things about our nifty new fillet system that still need finessing, (the occasional tipped fillet that then meets at a weird angle in the corner, and the occasional non-tipped fillet that still meets a a weird angle in the corner), and think, maybe it's not such a good idea after all. But I can still imagine gluing the wee legs into the big frames, sanding to size and joining, so is it a good idea?

Thanks to anyone who's made it this far and is still able to communicate in complete sentences. We await your replies.

 

[Jeff Rodier]

Offset clips if the inside frame extrudes above the back of the outer frame. Points and staples if the inside frame sits below the the level of the outer frame. I cut and join the inner frame to fit the package and then cut and join the outer frame taking into account things like ornaments that will cause the outer frame to sit awkwardly on the inner frame. The outer frame is often times cut to sight size rather than traditional size with standard allowance.

I almost never glue the two frames together since the offsets I use from 888 Manufacturing have holes on both halves. If I am joining one where the inner frame sits fully below the level of the outer size I insert several points and then adjust it to be perfectly centered. I use staples shot down on top of the extended points to hold it. Some frames require shims to keep it centered while others just need an appropriate number of points stapled down to the inside frame.

 

[Prospero]

(wafflewafflewafflewafflewafflewafflewafflewafflewafflewafflewaffledeleted....)

Thanks to anyone who's made it this far and is still able to communicate in complete sentences. We await your replies.

Speaking for myself I didn't understand a word of it.

What is a Byztantine assortment when it's at home and how would I recognise such if I encountered it?


As for joining stacks there are 1000s of ways and most are right. A lot depends on the differential in the rabbet depths - put simply
whether the inner element stands proud of the outer. There is also the factor of whether you might want to separate concentric frames
at some future date for whatever reason.
A lot of the stacked frames I do are to be hand-finished in which case I might want them to appear as if they were one solid lump with
the line where they meet grouted and blended. A thing like a liner however I would finish separately as it usually has a contrasting finish.
In this case I drill and tap in a thin pin. If the liner is narrow then drilling from the inside is the way. Wider ones have to be 'toenailed'.
But whichever way I don't bang long pins in. That way the liner can be prised out without damage should the need arise. It probably never
will, but The possibility still exists. Liners can be a bit vulnerable to edge damage so it makes sense to make the join reversible.

One-Upmanship Contest.

What is the greatest number of mouldings you have ever stacked together in a frame? I'm talking proper jobs here that people have paid for and taken home.


Thank you for reading. I'm away now to toenail some liners 'ere morning comes. (Honest)

 

[Dirk]

Two. Is the contest over?

 

[IFGL]

We join them like Jeff but we add glue, the glue is probably not necessary but we do it anyway

Six or seven, it was the same 1" wide profile repeated to make a mirror frame, I thought it looked awful, customer liked it though.

 

[CB Art & Framing]

I like Jeff's method with points and staples. No need for shims and can adjust for eveness.
For fillets-tape fillet with fillet tape into rabbett and chop both at the same time, being carefull that saw blade does not cause fillet to "move'.

 

[skye]

Speaking for myself I didn't understand a word of it.

What is a Byztantine assortment when it's at home and how would I recognise such if I encountered it?


As for joining stacks there are 1000s of ways and most are right. A lot depends on the differential in the rabbet depths - put simply
whether the inner element stands proud of the outer. There is also the factor of whether you might want to separate concentric frames
at some future date for whatever reason.
A lot of the stacked frames I do are to be hand-finished in which case I might want them to appear as if they were one solid lump with
the line where they meet grouted and blended. A thing like a liner however I would finish separately as it usually has a contrasting finish.
In this case I drill and tap in a thin pin. If the liner is narrow then drilling from the inside is the way. Wider ones have to be 'toenailed'.
But whichever way I don't bang long pins in. That way the liner can be prised out without damage should the need arise. It probably never
will, but The possibility still exists. Liners can be a bit vulnerable to edge damage so it makes sense to make the join reversible.

One-Upmanship Contest.

What is the greatest number of mouldings you have ever stacked together in a frame? I'm talking proper jobs here that people have paid for and taken home.


Thank you for reading. I'm away now to toenail some liners 'ere morning comes. (Honest)

3 frames and a fillet. I wish I had a photo. This was years ago and I know SO much more now...

 

[DVieau2]

.............As for joining stacks there are 1000s of ways and most are right. A lot depends on the differential in the rabbet depths - put simply
whether the inner element stands proud of the outer. .............
One-Upmanship Contest.
What is the greatest number of mouldings you have ever stacked together in a frame? I'm talking proper jobs here that people have paid for and taken home.

I agree with a 1000 ways. Each job is different and stacking frames in a nice way defines us as Pros. This is a place where having some basic woodworking tools and skills come in handy. My most used used tool for stacking frames and making strainers is the table saw.

I'm not the biggest fan of stacking frames. In my mind it should always look like one frame when your done and I'm fussy about how they fit, flow or skirt together. If you have a decent selection of corners you can often find a frame with a panel or enhancer already built in.

But other times it's the right way to go for a great design.

The most (I think) was three frames. Red white and blue along with two strainers to make it sturdy. Does that count as five?
It was large (about 48x60) and turned out very nice.

Doug

 

[Prospero]

This was a multi-stack frame that I used to do quite a few of. I had to do it like that to replicate
a frame that the customer had. The first one was more of a challenge than anything and it came out
looking fine. I didn't realise at the time that it was going to be a regular job. The print was an edition of 50
and I must have framed half of them.
It was if anything a little too complicated. Apart from the 4-stack frame (5 inc liner) the finish was very tricky. Lots of masking.

Hand-finishing is a different discipline to stacking with factory mouldings. You have the luxury to be able to gesso over the whole
thing so it appears to be one lump.

 

[Bob Doyle]

Shayla have you tried attaching the stacked frames together then cutting? I have done this a few times, you get a really nice tight fit, as long as the molding isn't too different in height. Even then this can work to your advantage. Especially for really large frames.