Farm Girl
Grumbler
What do you mount the posters on that you Z Gel? Mine seem to warp almost immediately on foam core. Called Z Gel, they don't return calls and can't find anything in a Grumble Search. Thanks.
Z gel mounting
- Thread starter Farm Girl
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What do you mount the posters on that you Z Gel? Mine seem to warp almost immediately on foam core. Called Z Gel, they don't return calls and can't find anything in a Grumble Search. Thanks.Farm Girl,
You need to "counter mount" it if it warps. Mount a piece of kraft paper to the back side to counter the warp.
You need to "counter mount" it if it warps. Mount a piece of kraft paper to the back side to counter the warp.
Kit
SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
I've never had one warp and I'm trying to figure out why.
Maybe because I was using Speedmount and the layer of adhesive on the board prevented moisture from the Z Gel from soaking through into the foam core?
Maybe because I only used Z Gel on open editions from Lieberman's that were printed on heavy paper?
I'm sure it wasn't because I used the product sparingly. I like to glob it on with a spoon, then use a paint brush to spread it around.
Very therapeutic when I've had a tough day!
Kit
Maybe because I was using Speedmount and the layer of adhesive on the board prevented moisture from the Z Gel from soaking through into the foam core?
Maybe because I only used Z Gel on open editions from Lieberman's that were printed on heavy paper?
I'm sure it wasn't because I used the product sparingly. I like to glob it on with a spoon, then use a paint brush to spread it around.
Very therapeutic when I've had a tough day!
Kit
I haven't had trouble with warping either. Posters is also all I use it on. The only substrate I have used is foamcore.
I love this taken right off the Z-gel bottle: "Mount prints to foamcore or firm substrate(Not recommended to mount to foamcore)."
Well that should clear it up.
I love this taken right off the Z-gel bottle: "Mount prints to foamcore or firm substrate(Not recommended to mount to foamcore)."
Well that should clear it up.
Jerry Ervin
PFG, Picture Framing God
Hey Farm Girl,
I have been 3M ProSpray mounting my posters on RC3X board from Crescent. The board is very dense and does not warp easily. It is also very flat and does not dimple like foam core board can.
Try it, you'll like it.
I have been 3M ProSpray mounting my posters on RC3X board from Crescent. The board is very dense and does not warp easily. It is also very flat and does not dimple like foam core board can.
Try it, you'll like it.
Jerry Ervin
PFG, Picture Framing God
After a long phone call to the company, their suggested way is to mount to "flaw board" first, then mount the flaw board to foam core before the gelling process. We discussed the verbiage on the label and they said that new labels will be appearing soon with the wording changed. Nice people and real helpful.
John Richards
MGF, Master Grumble Framer
After mounting a poster to foam or flaw board and covering it with Z-Gel, is it important that the product have UV filtering capabilities? It seems to me that this process has already turned "disposable" wall art into "more disposable" wall art. Don't get me wrong, I love the effect but this process is about as backward and unreversible (is that a word captain english) as it can get.
Rozmataz
SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
May be a dumb question...what is Z Gel!??
Thanks, Roz
Thanks, Roz
Not dumb at all as I just found out about a few weeks ago. Its a gel that you put over posters to give it texture like originals for the poor man (me). The effect is awesome and I had to learn about it after 3 customers mentioned in one week.
There is another shop here that does it for 39.99. That is a little high as it is an EZ process. Plus the charges are mostly labor. I like that!
Please John don't confuse me with anybody that believes that mass-archival is the only way to go. Far from it. I have mentioned once before of my love for vintage photo albums. The ones with black pages have enough acid to fry an egg but I use them anyway. Many of them I buy have photos in them that have been around for 1000's of years (ok maybe not that long but a long time), and they look fine. So I use them too.
The only reason I ask if it has any UV filtering qualities is that I have heard that it does. If it does I want to use that as a "sell point". Can we have to many of those?
There is another shop here that does it for 39.99. That is a little high as it is an EZ process. Plus the charges are mostly labor. I like that!
Please John don't confuse me with anybody that believes that mass-archival is the only way to go. Far from it. I have mentioned once before of my love for vintage photo albums. The ones with black pages have enough acid to fry an egg but I use them anyway. Many of them I buy have photos in them that have been around for 1000's of years (ok maybe not that long but a long time), and they look fine. So I use them too.
The only reason I ask if it has any UV filtering qualities is that I have heard that it does. If it does I want to use that as a "sell point". Can we have to many of those?
John Richards
MGF, Master Grumble Framer
Jay: OK, now I understand. I have to be honest I don't have an answer because we don't carry the Z-Gel product. Hopefully someone has the correct answers. I know at one time I had an information packet from them, if I can find it I'll see if there is an answer.
Jerry Ervin
PFG, Picture Framing God
Jay
Yes, the claim is there is UV protective qualities. However, I had one in my window at the old store for about 2 months. It turned purple. It was a south facing window. So it is like UV glass. It slows the effects of light, not stop.
Yes, the claim is there is UV protective qualities. However, I had one in my window at the old store for about 2 months. It turned purple. It was a south facing window. So it is like UV glass. It slows the effects of light, not stop.
Warren Tucker
MGF, Master Grumble Framer
We used to use masonite but now we use cheap 1/4 plywood.
Jerry Ervin
PFG, Picture Framing God
WOW Warren, cheap and plywood are not two words that many speak around the Charlotte area. The MDF board is not too expensive but the plywood is out. Do you have a source other than Home Depot or Lowes?
Warren Tucker
MGF, Master Grumble Framer
Jerry, we usually buy about 20 sheets when 1/4" Luan goes on sale. I think a sheet costs something like $12.00 or less. Hardboard or Masonite works as well and probably is cheaper. I think MDF would be too heavy. We use Liquitex Gloss Gel Medium in gal. buckets.
We never had any luck with foam core and we tried.
We never had any luck with foam core and we tried.
frmallday
True Grumbler
I too heard the gel had UV properties from a sales rep but that was over a year ago and the company has since taken back that claim. I called them about 2 months ago in regards to the UV question and they faxed me a 5 page information pack about the gel. There is no mention anywhere about UV protection. " No preprep or sprays needed, simply mount prints directly to illustration board or firm substrate. (Recommended not to mount to foamcore.)" (pg. 1)
I do believe humidity and climate play a part in whether or not there is warpage.
I do believe humidity and climate play a part in whether or not there is warpage.
We drymount to 3/16" Gatorfoam, and at the same time laminate with PrintGuard, either linen or canvas finish. Then we apply the gel over the laminated surface; the paper has a plastic coating under the gel.
I'm sure there's more UV protection in the laminating film than in the Z-Gel, and it can't be much. If the Gel offers any protection, it would depend on the thickness of the coating.
If you get any answer to the question, make sure they're not talking about added "UV inhibitors"; chemical additives for the purpose of reducing the effects of UV light on the coating itself -- not filtering UV to protect what's under the coating.
I'm sure there's more UV protection in the laminating film than in the Z-Gel, and it can't be much. If the Gel offers any protection, it would depend on the thickness of the coating.
If you get any answer to the question, make sure they're not talking about added "UV inhibitors"; chemical additives for the purpose of reducing the effects of UV light on the coating itself -- not filtering UV to protect what's under the coating.
Z-Gel sounds a lot like Acrylic Gel Medium (gloss or matte).
Cheap 1/4" luan plywood at Lowe's or Home Depot labeled "door skins"...about 12/per as Warren states.
Jim's method has far superior fade protection.
FarmGirl...are you using the Z-GEL to mount or texturize the poster? Z-GEL or Acrylic Medium on foamcore would cause some wicked warp though it is heat reactivated and makes a good bond.
Cheap 1/4" luan plywood at Lowe's or Home Depot labeled "door skins"...about 12/per as Warren states.
Jim's method has far superior fade protection.
FarmGirl...are you using the Z-GEL to mount or texturize the poster? Z-GEL or Acrylic Medium on foamcore would cause some wicked warp though it is heat reactivated and makes a good bond.
Kit
SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Roz, did any of that answer your question?
Remember decoupage? It's alot like that. It comes milky and thick in the jar but dries clear.
Z Gel is available from United and LJ, probably other places as well.
You can apply it with a long-napped roller for all over texture or you can make brush strokes.
Not every print is a candidate but I've gotten good results on impressionist works - things where you would have been able to see brush strokes on the original.
I'm sure I heard that Z Gel has some UV qualities but I can't cite the source.
Kit
Remember decoupage? It's alot like that. It comes milky and thick in the jar but dries clear.
Z Gel is available from United and LJ, probably other places as well.
You can apply it with a long-napped roller for all over texture or you can make brush strokes.
Not every print is a candidate but I've gotten good results on impressionist works - things where you would have been able to see brush strokes on the original.
I'm sure I heard that Z Gel has some UV qualities but I can't cite the source.
Kit
Farm Girl
Grumbler
Thanks, Jerry. I am not familiar with the RC3X board but will check with supplier and try it or gatorboard to mount. I got a Pro Sprayer recently and love it.
Rozmataz
SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Kit, It definitely answered my question!! Sounds interesting...
Does it dry shiny, satin or matte - or are there different types!!?
Thanks, Roz
Does it dry shiny, satin or matte - or are there different types!!?
Thanks, Roz
Kit
SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Not shiny - more of a semi-gloss.
Z Gel is a good way to invest an hour when things are slow in the shop.
After one customer thought she was buying an original oil, I started putting notes on the pieces: This print has been enhanced by the application of... etc.
Kit
Z Gel is a good way to invest an hour when things are slow in the shop.
After one customer thought she was buying an original oil, I started putting notes on the pieces: This print has been enhanced by the application of... etc.
Kit