"Your authentic reproduction is"

JBergelin

CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2
Joined
Dec 14, 2004
Posts
374
Loc
Big Rapids, Michigan
today a customer brought it an "authentic reproduction" with a Certificate of Ownership that came from the United States Commemorative Fine Art Gallery -

this "certificate" proudly states at the top $4500.00 so the customer thinks that he has a valuable art piece to be framed -- wanted to frame it right so that it would last....

If you read above the $4500.00 it says "Original oil appraised value" and if you read this Certificate of Ownership carefully it becomes apparent that you don't have squat except a print to put on the wall ...

a true case of buyer beware... I tried to explain gently but he did not want to hear so he still thinks he has a valuable piece....:faintthud:

I am getting a great order out of it but it makes me feel dirty.... of course if I don't do it someone else will ....

He said - I want it framed right so that it will last- not put in a WalMart frame....

OK ... will do .... Oh dear
 
You did what you could and should have, IMO.

You might wish to photocopy the CofA and keep it on file just in case the inks fade or the paper turns to mush. If something happens to the piece and he wants to blame you later on, you’ll have to copy to refer to.
 
Maybe the best thing is don't bust his bubble, but to make you feel better steer him towards a lower cost "sublte treatment."

Perhaps he would like a "Certificate of Authentic Framing" as well. Put whatever "appraised value" you want at the top, or just leave a blank for him to fill in.:D

Did he buy it on a cruise ship?
 
Oh, just give the customer as nice a framing treatment as he or she is willing to pay for! Who cares whether the piece is really worth $4500 or $45 or $4.50? The customer likes it.

We frame so many $20 posters and charge 10 times that amount, I really don't know what the fuss is. You didn't sell him the art.
 
Oh, just give the customer as nice a framing treatment as he or she is willing to pay for! Who cares whether the piece is really worth $4500 or $45 or $4.50? The customer likes it.

We frame so many $20 posters and charge 10 times that amount, I really don't know what the fuss is. You didn't sell him the art.

I agree with this, but understand how bad you can feel when someone is bringing something in that is obviously not worth what they are thinking.
However, we are not here to price the pieces people bring in, we frame it. Give him the best you can. It's not your fault that the customer didn't read the fine print when buying his poster.... makes you wonder though what he paid for it......
Ylva
 
I feel worse when a customer comes in with his child , and right in front of the kid, the customer says "I don't want to spend a lot of money, it's just my kid's art."
 
I know, I know, but it just feels so sleazy - at least when we put a $500 frame package on a $3 whatever, when they know it is worth $3 - they know what they are doing.

His girlfriend gave it to him so he is framing it for his bedroom. :icon21: (maybe thats why he wants it to look so good)

so it was free to him, I don't know where she got it.
 
I feel worse when a customer comes in with his child , and right in front of the kid, the customer says "I don't want to spend a lot of money, it's just my kid's art."
I know! I half expect the kid to look up at her with big puppydog eyes and say, "Mommy, don't you.... love me?"

I know, I know, but it just feels so sleazy - at least when we put a $500 frame package on a $3 whatever, when they know it is worth $3 - they know what they are doing.
Don't worry about it. As we speak, someone is standing in a furniture store somewhere forking over $795.00 for an open-edition reproduction print framed to the teeth, because it matches the sofa they are purchasing along with it. If they brought you the loose "art" part of that, you wouldn't lose sleep over custom framing it for maybe half that amount... would you?
:kaffeetrinker_2: Rick
 
I want to get dirty

I am getting a great order out of it but it makes me feel dirty.... of course if I don't do it someone else will ....[/QUOTE]

send em in , its just picture framing , what makes one person think, " hey I got to get this thing framed because its valuable " figure this out and you will be a very wealthy framer Ta Ta Ta Ta Ta Ta touch me I wanna be dirty Rocky Horror
 
I love those $795 purchases at Furniture stores. I get to repair them when they buckle.
 
I feel worse when a customer comes in with his child , and right in front of the kid, the customer says "I don't want to spend a lot of money, it's just my kid's art."

I know it's "just kid's art" but properly framed a $3 canvas and a couple nickels worth of acrylic paint can be special:

http://www.cff.org/UploadedFiles/Chapters/charlotte/ChapterEvents/KidsArtHighlight.pdf


The one titled "The Cure" sold for $1500 at our fundraising auction last year and helped raise over $20K for CF research...

Tony
 
The world famous "Painter of Krap" has other people sign his name on the L/E prints and people actually pay $4500 them. Do we feel guilty about charging hundreds or thousands to frame them?
 
I guess I just don't understand why you would feel dirty - you didn't sell him the print - he just came to you to get it framed. It is totally the customers fault for not reading the fine print on the cert and for not researching the print before he bought it. He/she wants it framed, we are in the business to satisfy the customer and I know for sure I'm not here or am I qualified to appraise art/prints. You made the attempt to inform the customer and he didn't want to hear it so your conscience should be clear. Just my opinion...
 
Never make a customer feel like they have been "had". The one big stigma that keeps old folks from going to the cops when they have been swindled, often times out of their life savings, is that they feel stupid, or worse yet, others will think they are stupid.

Your customers do not want to hear that you think they are stupid, so don't even reference to it. People buy these "pieces" because they like the "piece" and they envision themselves as knowledgeable art collectors. They pay huge bucks to enjoy this little fantasy, why on earth would you want to destroy that for them?

Your job is to frame their artwork and mind your own business about what they paid for it and what you think the actual value is. How would you feel if you bought one of those new electric cars for say twenty thousand dollars and you take it to your mechanic and he tells you these things aren't worth a diddle?

He tells you it's a sucker scam, and he could get one for five thousand dollars?
Would you be overjoyed to hear this great news? Would you want to go back to that mechanic, ever? He just called you a stupid sucker, why on earth would you want to treat your customers that way?

Even a look of disdain can ruin it for your customer, keep it to yourself, it's non of your business.

I guess I could finally add that you climb down off your very high "art expert" horse and treat people with a little kindness. It will make them feel good, and it will help build your business.

John
 
I guess I could finally add that you climb down off your very high "art expert" horse and treat people with a little kindness. It will make them feel good, and it will help build your business.

John

John - you were making great points and had me agreeing with you till you added this wonderful judgment....

perhaps the pot is calling the kettle black?
 
John - you were making great points and had me agreeing with you till you added this wonderful judgment....

perhaps the pot is calling the kettle black?


You know something, about half an hour after I made that post, it dawned on me what a stupid thing it was for me to say. My mood swings sometime go in directions I'd rather they didn't. I hate it when I'm a hypocrite. I apologize to anyone I may have offended. I was completely wrong on that one and I am truly sorry I added that on.

John
 
Thank you John

Your apology is most appreciated.

Lord knows that there are times I have rambled on and later and wished I hadn't.

Friends? :beer:
 
We never were not friends. That was my screw up and I appreciate your intervention. Without it, I probably just would have forgotten about it and never said a thing.

John
 
Aw-www...

All's right in GrumbleLand again!

:beer:
 
I have actually being trying to make a conscious effort to not be such a jerk as I have often been in the past. I am trying to do this because I am hoping other jerks will jump on board and we can all make The Grumble a better place to hang out.

Based on the above, I honestly do appreciate it when someone busts my chops. Changing behavioral patterns is not easy and there are always slip ups, so I admit I do need help with this one.

John
 
I'm surprised at some of the snarkiness in this thread.

It wasn't ever suggested that the art shouldn't be framed because it wasn't worth the $4500 printed on the certificate. It's human nature to offer correct information when incorrect information is shared. If someone came over to your house and said he loved the movie Casablanca with Hubert Humphrey and Ingmar Bergman you might gently correct them. In a business situation you might hesitate for precisely the reason John mentioned - no one like to feel stupid, or have others be aware that they've made a mistake. And we don't want customers to walk because we've pointed out that they've bought some snake oil.

At the same time you hate to have someone continue under the delusion that he has an expensive piece of art. What if the unthinkable happens and the art is damaged or destroyed while in your posession, and the customer expects a $4500 insurance payout?
 
Now I'm reminded of the scene from the cult classic Showgirls, when Elizabeth Berkley calls her Versace dress a "ver-sayse," and when someone finally corrects her pronunciation, she feels like a dope.
 
If someone came over to your house and said he loved the movie Casablanca with Hubert Humphrey and Ingmar Bergman you might gently correct them....

That reminds me of Jimmy Carter's keynote speech at the Democratic convention many years ago. He was waxing eloquent in praising one of the grand elder statesmen of the Democrating party, "Hubert...Horatio...Hornblower!" (pause) "uh, Humphrey!"
(Being an old Navy man, Horatio Hornblower loomed large in Carter's consciousness...)
:popc: Rick

From Wikipedia: Admiral of the Fleet Horatio Hornblower, 1st Baron Hornblower RN, is a fictional protagonist of a series of novels by C. S. Forester, and later the subject of films and television programs. Ernest Hemingway is quoted as saying, "I recommend Forester to everyone literate I know."
 
I knew a guy who would habitually mispronounce words. It was ages before I figured what his "fassy-mile" machine was.:confused:

Nearly as good as a local radio newsreader who would say "hyper-bowl". You would have thought someone would have told her...
 
At the same time you hate to have someone continue under the delusion that he has an expensive piece of art. What if the unthinkable happens and the art is damaged or destroyed while in your posession, and the customer expects a $4500 insurance payout?

When someone brings me a "valuable" piece, I will take the job and then I will suggest that they get a real appraisal "for insurance purposes". After all, you want to make sure the insurance company pays out the full value of the piece should something happen to it, right? :)

That way the appraiser gets to be the bad guy, not me :D
 
You did what you could and should have, IMO.

You might wish to photocopy the CofA and keep it on file just in case the inks fade or the paper turns to mush. If something happens to the piece and he wants to blame you later on, you’ll have to copy to refer to.

I haven't read this thread yet, and I got only as far as Bill's reply, but I want to add that his is the right response. It is not our responsibility to pass judgment on the value of a customer's work. Just photograph it, make a copy of the certificate, and help the customer feel great about his framing choices. Whether it's a cheap print or an original, he will want UV glass to protect the color, and acid-free mats and backing to keept both the mat from fading and the art from staining.

You should not feel dirty. It is your job to protect your customer's art, no matter what the value. Now protect yourself by copying everything for your files and feel grateful that this guy chose you to frame a piece he feels has value.
 
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