Would you warn other shops?

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David Knox

CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2
Joined
Feb 8, 2001
Posts
429
Loc
Hillsborough NC
This is rather involved... I'll condense and hope I make it clear.

Recently a woman came in and asked for a quote on an LE. We talked, she left. Husband calls and says they have 7 more pieces by the same artist and would I give them a quote for all 8 pieces. She brings them, he calls with the frame and mat numbers, mat widths, etc. which I dutifully quote. My quote is less. They talk, say yes.

I don't have all of the frame samples so I round them up from the supplier and they make an appointment because I won't do the job until they and I have looked at and talked about each piece together. They don't show for the appointment which I have scheduled to give them my undivided attention, because by this time I know I'm gonna need it!

Saturday they walk in unannounced while I am by myself (assistant had surgery) and I have other customers. In between customers in the front, I drag out their art and the samples (in the workroom) and discuss each piece with them. Design changes were made but we only got half finished by the time they had to grab some lunch(since I had other customers).

They leave. I gather my wits and make design changes on the computer and lay out some alternate mat selections for four of the pieces for them to approve after their lunch. No dice. They go home and call me to make another appointment. They show and we make more design changes. Bottom line is we changed one of the eight frames and mats on all pieces but two. Price goes up.

Wednesday they call and "it's just too much money to invest in their art for which they only paid $20 to $100". (You know times for tight for an opthamologist). They love my designs, my attitude, etc. but will pick up their art AND the design changes! We know what will freeze over before they get my designs.

Thank you for letting me vent and get to the question... would you call area shops and warn them of these customers? There's no other shop in my town, but quite a few in the town where they live. Obviously someone has given them all the particulars because they gave them to me, and I'd venture to guess that I'm not the second shop they have been to... I bet they've been to more.
 
Sherry,

What these people did was rude and immoral, but hardly illegal, so I guess I wouldn't put myself in line for a libel suit by saying anything at all about them to other shops. What I would do is make a notation in my customer database so that, if they come back in ten years or so, I can say, "Hey, I remember you!"

Or, if it'll make you feel better, why not make several appointments with the opthamologist under various assumed names and then just fail to show up?
 
Hey, Sherry,
I can't believe that you're surprised by this. This happens all the time to me. It's frustrating, I know, especially when we invest so much time in price quotes, providing special deals, etc, but unfortunately it's a sign of the times. The price that someone will pay for something is directly comparable to the value that they percieve it to be. Thank God there are those who still understand the time, effort, skill and quality product that we provide and are willing to pay for it...most however, do not. This is where comsumer education and product knowledge are paramount.

The other side of the coin is this. I don't know about you, but I wouldn't buy a car without extensive research of the product, visit all the showrooms...get the very best deal I can and this takes time and effort, not only on my part, but on the part of the retailer. If I was going to spend hundreds...perhaps even thousands on a framing job, I would do the same. The bottom line is that only one shop is going to get the job...and the rest....arn't.
shrug.gif
 
Hi Sherry,

It's frustrating isn't it? Who knows, maybe they will come back with one at a time. But, I don't think I would say anything to other framers.

Although, there have been times I wanted to call the other frame shops in town and warn them of problem customers, or to see if the other shops have delt with these customers. Such as, bounced checks & cancelled orders.

I had one cutomer come in complaining of another shop and left a piece for us to framed. (he was checking out our framing before he'd place a large order) He liked what we did and placed a large order and left half the deposit. He picked up his ordered and paid the balance with a check. He called a day or two later and said he stopped payment on the check! He promised to pay it off, plus charges. I did call the frame shop he complained about and asked the owner if he had problems with payment from this customer. The other framer said no, but be careful with this customer! It took awhile, but we did receive payment for this job.

I've had a few customers that have made me wish the local framers had some type of network in place to warn each other. But, I'm not sure how lawful this would be! So for now, we just live and learn.

Have a great day!
Michelle
 
Sherri, I too feel your frustration. Although My Dad was an Opthamologist and would never waste anyones time, so I'd like to think that part is a fluke.
I had a customer come in this week, who had designed with one of my framers and she asked if she could take the samples home to look at in the room they were going in. We let our customers do that occasionally so we agreed. Then she asked for a break down of costs on the job....I nicely told her that was part of the design and we didn't release that information. She went to another shop, with our samples, brought them back and asked if she could buy the matboard from us because the other shop had never seen it before. (because it was archival quality!) ARRRG! We now have a new policy that NO samples leave the shop. She paid dearly for the mat
smileyshot22.gif
 
<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Ron Eggers:
Sherry,
Or, if it'll make you feel better, why not make several appointments with the opthamologist under various assumed names and then just fail to show up?<hr></blockquote>

LOL. Ron, your a stitch!
 
Marc Bluestone had a great article in PFM some time back dealing with closing the sale, specifically the percentages. You don't close them all and this after a lot of effort and work. But there is a reason that you didn't pull the trigger, and you might want to reexamine the whys. Who knows why, the more you do know, the better the chance of getting a yes next time.

In those cases where we didn't get a sale, there has to be a reason. It might be salesmanship, it might be design, it might be price. It's gotta be something. If it's once in awhile, things happen. Like one poster said that it happens all the time. If it happens that often, I would work hard on my closing skills.

There is a reason, and I would spend my time and effort improving whatever shortcoming prevented me from getting the order. Sometimes it is internal.
 
Sherry

After over 25 years in sales/marketing this is down to the reality that you cannot win them all no matter how hard you try, though Bob is right you should question the why, if it is rude people who came into your shop you may not fall into that trap again, if it is your sales skills you will learn and hone your closing skills.

As I say I love to learn even if it is the hard way.

Ron

cry.gif
I was totally convinced that you were such a nice guy, then again my thinking can be suspect.
 
This is an interesting story and Bob hit the nail on the head. These people are some great potential clients who need some gentle advice in understanding the world that they've entered, it seems to me.

Allow me to make some general assumptions: The nouveau riche.... become successful and should therefore become sophisticated and conversant in topics such as travel, wine, art and the other finer things of life ....

buy some "art" to show it, and run into the problem that it costs SKADS to get it displayed! (Home or Office.... the benefits of hanging art in the business etc etc) They've become successful by their own efforts and will be able to conquer this little speed bump, as well, with some sweat equity & legwork.

Get a detailed design from some accommodating frame shop and proceed to shop it around. The details don't matter as much as cost, and this IS a potentially big order, right, so we surely can expect a quantity discount as a sign of respect for our position in the community. :rolleyes:

Become frustrated that it's so expensive.... put everything away in a closet and talk about how ridiculously expensive it is to get decent framing at the next country club gathering..... anyone know any reasonable framers?

I wonder how many thousands (or even millions) of these potentially great customers are out there? How do we increase our empathy and help them to cross over into the great enlightenment (where we reside, naturally)?

The thought comes to me again of how much I enjoyed seeing the good, better, best framing examples which were prominently posted in the last big-box frame shop I wandered into. Having that display and having someone who is willing to openly discuss the ins and outs may well be the closing trigger. Will it be the big, comfortable suburban box or the boutique, niche-oriented frame shop or somewhere in between?

You did great, I think, Sherry, in being pleasant and cooperative, and especially in keeping your designs. This is another good point for working right off the POS design software: "Our system releases the detailed design when it is converted to a work order by a deposit. I am more than happy to print a free summary quote for you. May I enter your name and address, etc?" smile!

I don't know if we can change the world as much as we can try to just understand it. I sure wish I could figure it all out.
 
po' framer, That was beautiful, man! I mean it.

Sometimes we like to think that, as framers, we deal with difficult people from time-to-time. When I have a day like that, I come home in the evening and Grumble* to my wife, the agency nurse. She usually has a story for me, as well.

Yesterday, she worked in the dementia unit of a Catholic nursing home. A resident there kept calling her "Father" as in "Oh, Father, could you get me a pain pill?" (My wife looks very little like a priest.) Finally my wife said (I'm sure quite gently) "I am a wife, I'm a mother, I'm a sister, but I am not a Father." She said the woman's face brightened and she said, "Oh, Sister, could you get me a pain pill?"

Dermot, at least I'm not an axe-murderer.

*I didn't mean to capitalize Grumble. Force-of-habit, I guess.
 
I'm going to take a little latitude here. Please don't take any of this personal but this might be a good learning experience.

Sometime a good attitude does not cut it. I see several areas that you missed on. Bob is right sometime you need a hard close. The quote on one piece early maybe, but all never, sounds like they were working you. When they came back on Sat. I would have made them wait in line and then given then 100% of my attention when their turn came. If they walked you are time ahead. If they are serious they will stay. Your time there is important to you. Don't ever worry about some doctors time. That game is crap.

If you quoted a lower price on all eight earlier the customer had already busted your hand and is still playing you. He may wait a couple of days and approach you or hope you call him taking the deal. Car dealers do that all the time.

Hard close, take deep breath "Am I doing this for exercise or are you going to do this." and smile big and stare into their eyes. OK! that was an extreme example. But you need a GAME PLAN to get the money and close the deal.

You could write books on closing the deal.

As for telling the other shops NEVER, they are big boys and girls and can find out on their own.

Well these are just quickie thoughts and maybe off base, without really being behind you at the time I have no real way of commenting with any authority.
 
<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by framer:
As for telling the other shops NEVER, they are big boys and girls and can find out on their own.<hr></blockquote>

Besides, Sherry, if the other framers in your area are Grumblers, they'll probably be calling you up and asking for names. And if they're not . . . well, to he** with 'em!
 
<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Ron Eggers:
Dermot, at least I'm not an axe-murderer.

[/QB]<hr></blockquote>

Ron

It's amazing how a rumour can stick.

shrug.gif
 
Time is money. These people blew off an appointment then expected you to drop all and squeeze them in...why is it that people assume only their time is valuable? I think I would've asked if they wanted to reschedule since they missed their appointment (don't doctors/dentists charge for no-shows?) which would have told you immediately if they were honestly interested.

I almost always ended up with the sale from "price shoppers" because of the succinct descriptions/explanations on the product, material, what custom framing is...an investment in lifetime protection of their art...then I break it down...this piece is $350 to frame, but only dollars a year for something they will enjoy day in and day out...

Usually other framers aren't as up on the latest technologies, trends, or just won't hone their sales schpiel...it makes a difference when clients are deciding who gave the best available service and info...even if you are higher, done well...they'll come back.

Bob, po framer and framer are right on the money, though I do like Ron's idea...hahaha. (One of my partners once asked a local doctor what kind of discount he gave on multiple visits...the guy got the hint, paid full price and loved the design, though I think it was a little rude)
 
I've pondered your responses and as always, am amazed the Grumble is so much help to me. I feel that I get more than I give on this forum.

I will not warn other shops, but am spending my time more productively trying to figure out the close. The biggest why not, to me, is the fact that the original quote went up after the couple made numerous design changes (triple linen mats, fillets, wider mat widths, v-grooves, etc.) AND they wanted me to do the job for $1200 less than the quote.

I did not offer a discount, as is my policy. I don't regret that decision. I don't discount my biggest customer and don't feel it fair to offer a discount to someone else either. I treated them knowledgeably and with respect; but was a little too accommodating time-wise, especially after the first no-show appointment.

These pieces are not new... The couple has a price in their minds about what to pay for the framing and I think they drag the pieces out about every six months and make a run on a different frame shop trying to fit the framing into the price they have in their minds. Those pieces can be framed within their budget and look terrific, but not when the couple won't budge on the original frame selections they made.

I hope I didn't offend anyone with the opthamologist remark in the original post. I didn't know he was an opthamologist until the last hour I spent with them when he asked who my optician was and told me it was the wrong one! I sweetly asked him for a recommendation (since I knew he was going to give it anyway)... No I'm not changing eye doctors. Ron, the ugly side of me wants to take your suggestion, but the best side of me says NOT!

Thanks to all of you for the great advice and insight.
 
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