Would you have handled this differently

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FrameMakers

FrameMakers

PFG, Picture Framing God
Joined
Mar 20, 2001
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Powell, OH
I just finished framing an 11x14 photo that was matted to 16x20 by the photographer. The customer purchased this for $59.95 at an art fair.

The photo is on a thick stock but has some rippling from where it was taped to the mat. I removed the tape, but the photo is still rippled. It is also signed with a gold pen.

I opted to just re-hinge the photo and fit the job. Would you have drymounted it and chanced messing up the gold pen signature or just do as I did and leave it alone?

All I was doing was frame, CC Glass and Fitting using the customers mats.
 
If the customer wants it drymounted I have had zero problems with the metallic pens. I get requests to mount signed photos all of the time and never worry about it. I'm mounting at 170 for 60 seconds on International Paper Fome-Cor Brand heat activated board.
 
I think the safest route would be to explain any potential problems to the client re: signature smearing and let them decide if the risk is worth the reward. No way would I try to "do them a favor" by attempting mounting without their knowing because that is a sure call to Murphy.

I agree with Jeff that I have had no problems with gold pens but I would double check my cover sheet after mounting just to be safe.

Without the custoemr's permission, I would do just what you did, Dave.
 
You're too nice Dave! I would have done exactly what they paid for, wouldn't even have re-hinged the art but just left the tape in place. That's what they brought in, they only paid for frame and glass and fit it in frame.
 
Oh, and my answer would be different if it was a returning customer...but this morning I just had people like that come in all over the place, with their carpy mats, carpy frames, carpy glass and the request to 'make it look nice'. I soooo wanted to have a Bob moment.

In real life I have to be nice and friendly and understanding of course....
 
I use Kool-Tack for drymounting, so there's less of an issue with harming the gold-pen signature, but I still would go over this with the customer first. For one thing, if they're only paying me for fitting, they definitely are going to pay extra for re-mounting!
 
I agree with the others, about only drymounting it after talking to the customer, then charging for it.

I've done quite a lot of drymounting with metallic signatures (used to work for a wildlife photographer that used silver felt tips to sign, and he mounted all of his work) and never had a problem. Sometimes where the ink was thick, some would get on the release board covering it and a little un-stick takes it off and you're good to go.
Gail
 
There is hope

This morning I had a customer come in with a readymade from JoAnn's. She wanted a mat cut to fit it for her art. I mentioned that we were still taking orders for Christmas. She then responded with a big REALLY. She told me that she had been to number of places that told her NO and that she couldn't even get a mat cut before Christmas.

She said that she wasn't happy with the readymade and that the mats would not be even and that she wanted this to be really nice. I ended up turning it into a full custom job.
 
I will never again dry mount a photo that has metallic ink on it!!!

I tried once and after it cooled, the signature became a perfect mirror image on the release paper. The signature on the photo had all but disappeared.

THAT was tough explaining to the customer.
 
Bill, I have had that happen too. Thus I don't mount metallic signed photos. The customer pick-up a short time ago. Looked at them, loved them and left. :icon21:
 
I would have wet mounted it in the vacuum press using VacuGlue 300 nice thin coat rolled on.....cold press.
 
I used to drymount with metallic pen all the time, until......
Wont do it anymore. All it takes is once.
 
How about dry mounting a metallic silkscreened print?

Hey there, So we were just brought a 24x67" silkscreen from about 1957, and I didn't get to take a good look until after the customer left.
The entire print is embellished with gold metallic ink, which from the time period I would assume to be either oil-based or _maybe_ acrylic-based.

Customer has had this kicking around for years and just wants the cheapest way to get it up on the wall. I thought drymounting on KOOLTACK would be a good option, but now that I've seen the metallic ink, I'm not so sure!

Would love some feedback if anyone has any ideas...
Thanks!

p.s. not a signed/numbered print
 
You will get more answers by starting a new thread, instead of resurrecting an old one....

Anyway. Is the silkscreen on fabric or paper? Is it getting a mat? Is it valuable at all? Giving the age, I would not drymount it as it is not replaceable.
 
Another point of view:

I will casually ask them if they like the signature in gold or silver or whatever. Then I ask if they would like me to remove it. Most say yes.

Some come back later to have it removed.

They liked the image not the signature scrawled across 25% of the image

If photographers and artists would get a fine pen, practice a nice small signature, do it in a color that suits the art, and place it in a suitable place on the image..............

Overdone, tacky, things most times.
 
I, like others, mount on KoolTak and have never had a problem other than forgetting to clean the release board and imprinting a faint signature on the next piece I mounted.

Dumb David.

:icon11:
 
can you spell P M A
 
Kristin said:
Hey there, So we were just brought a 24x67" silkscreen from about 1957...Customer has had this kicking around for years and just wants the cheapest way to get it up on the wall...p.s. not a signed/numbered print
Click to expand...

Customers always want "the cheapest way to get it up on the wall". In truth, that would involve a handful of thumbtacks. But in reality, the customer generally means "the cheapest way to get it up on the wall" that meets their appearance expectations and looks good and lasts forever and does no harm to the art.

If you do anything that harms or destroys this artwork - and any permanent mounting attempt could possibly do that - you might learn from the customer that it has suddenly become a priceless heirloom, and you will be held responsible for the damage. That's only fair, right?

What happens next? You obviously can't replace it, so that means you pay for conservation treatment (if possible) or you pay whatever the customer claims it is worth, or you go to court and pay still more. In any case, you would lose much more than the possible profit on the job, and you probably would never see that customer again.

I suggest caution.
 
"If you do anything that harms or destroys this artwork - and any permanent mounting attempt could possibly do that - you might learn from the customer that it has suddenly become a priceless heirloom, and you will be held responsible for the damage. That's only fair, right?

What happens next? You obviously can't replace it, so that means you pay for conservation treatment (if possible) or you pay whatever the customer claims it is worth, or you go to court and pay still more.

Please describe actual cases of this occuring in the framing industry?

Thanks
 
This is a perennial dilemma.

If someone brings something for framing, where does framing end and restoration begin?

It may be "Can you just flatten it out a bit" or "Can you just fix that little tear" or "Can you get rid of that fingermark"

Do you take the thing and deal with it as it is or do you attempt to 'improve' it?

The second option can be a minefield. :help:
 
eeep

Ylva said:
You will get more answers by starting a new thread, instead of resurrecting an old one....

Anyway. Is the silkscreen on fabric or paper? Is it getting a mat? Is it valuable at all? Giving the age, I would not drymount it as it is not replaceable.
Click to expand...

Good point, I'll re-post! The silkscreen is on paper, and will not be going in a frame. I've been looking into some other cheap and non-invasive ways of "getting it up on the wall." I also looked up the artist but wasn't able to find much about the value of his work. It's a fun piece though.
Gracias!
 
Kristin, if it's not going into a frame, I wouldn't touch this project at all.

It's on paper, not protected, it's from 1957 so probably not replaceable. I would tell my customer to store it until they can find the money for a frame. Or tell them to find a yard sale frame and I would cut a mat to make it fit and throw in plain glass.
They want cheap. I wouldn't make this my problem. (I would tell them in more friendly terms of course why it is a bad idea)
 
Bandsaw said:
Please describe actual cases of this occuring in the framing industry?

Thanks
Click to expand...

Based on what we have been hearing over the years our industry must get sued at 100 times the rate of the medical profession. Framing is the only industry where you can be sued for not providing a $1,000 product when the customer buys and pays for a $10 product.

I'm thinking about buying a Kia and suing the dealer for not providing me a Mercedes. It is common knowledge that a $120,000 vehicle is safer than the $15,000 vehicle so it will be a no brainer. The dealer will be forced to buy me the $120,000 car that I really wanted when I bought the $15,000 car. People are so dumb that nobody has thought of this before me.
 
Quite seriously, I would like some detailed history and data on cases where a framer has paid out in response to a complaint of negligence.
 
I don't think you will get that Bandsaw. I think most framers will handle situations like that with a customer themselves and it won't go higher up.

What would you do if you ruin something that is not replaceable?
 
After all these 30 plus years and hundreds of thousands of items framed it hasn't been suggested that I have ruined anything.

There are a few thousand framers in North America framing a few million pieces every week using various common practices and there are some that feel that these practices may lead to accusations of damage to the art.

I would like to review instances of these accusations and the outcomes of them.

Having some knowledge of them would certainly be interesting, perhaps usefull.

I haven't come across a case.
 
I'm not so sure that it is fear of lawsuits that drives caution or a "conservative" approach to framing. It has partly to do with the availability of vastly improved materials and techniques compared to what was standard decades ago, along with the marketing thereof. It also reflects the fact that we are craftsmen (and -women), and have a desire to do the best work we can; and, we would like it to continue looking good for as long as possible. Yes, "doing the right thing" sometimes conflicts with the imperatives of unfettered commerce. ...But isn't that the central conflict of our time?
:kaffeetrinker_2: Rick
 
Kristin said:
I've been looking into some other cheap and non-invasive ways of "getting it up on the wall."
Gracias!
Click to expand...

When talking with customers, I reinforce the idea that I can do some things inexpensively, I never use the term "cheap" unless I'm asking the question "do you want it inexpensive or do you want it cheap"
 
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