Wizard dilemma

Create a Post
KincadeOverdose

KincadeOverdose

True Grumbler
Joined
Jan 9, 2008
Posts
88
Loc
Chicago
I'm having a bit of a panic about a major change in our CMC situation. Our owner has decided to switch out our leased 8500 Wizard for a 5000 model he now owns. Obviously the upside is that we will no longer be leasing, but the huge downside is that I've only ever used the 8500. I've been looking through 5000 manual and it looks like a huge downgrade. Does anyone have any input on exactly what we're giving up? Is it more worthwhile for us to keep leasing the 8500 and sell the 5000? I'm worried that we'll be giving up a lot of the features that we sell to our customers. Another worry is that I don't even know if this 5000 is in working order, I was told to hook it up and do a test run, but I can't do that unless I unhook the air hoses to the 8500...and there's nowhere to do this test.
To top it all off we gave away our nice manual mat cutter, so if everything goes pear shaped and we're stuck without a working CMC, it's panic time!
Any advice?
 
I used to have a 5000 before my 8000 - all I can say is from a technical/quality perspective he's a complete idiot!

Not sure if current software works with the 5000. The software I used to have on my 5000 was prehistoric compared to current version.

Blade change was a pain.

Noisy.

Didn't do V-grooves worth a spit.

Different blades.

Personally if finances are tight I'd lose an employee or cut back on hours before regressing to a 5000 (not that that's what you may want to suggest to your owner!!!!!)

Somehow I'd find a way of making that test run show just how awful regressing will be!!!!!
 
What Andrew said.

It's really like going back to the stone age - the difference is substantial, and....changing the blades and blade depth alone is a major reason not to go back!
 
sigh
This is what I was scared of.
I knew by looking at it that it would be a nightmare. How easy is it to sell a 5000 model? We did get two fancy pistorious saws in this same deal, so it's not all bad news, but I think with none of us knowing anything about the 5000, and losing the Wizard tech support, it's a bad idea.
Thank you so much for your replies, you might have just saved our holiday production!
 
If you have old 5000 software you'll just be thrilled when you come to do multi-openings!!!!! The sheer joy of calculating X/Y placement by hand is something not to be missed!

All those extra labor hours will sure add up in a hurry!
 
CAframer said:
If you have old 5000 software you'll just be thrilled when you come to do multi-openings!!!!! The sheer joy of calculating X/Y placement by hand is something not to be missed!

All those extra labor hours will sure add up in a hurry!
Click to expand...

Oh god, I'm having a panic attack!;)

I'm quoting you exactly to my boss.
 
I should think you should talk to somebody at wizard.

Many things said here are flattly wrong,
.
Example is the software, its the SAME software, same updates etc. So software is not a reason. Also 5000 cuts v grooves just as well as the 8500.

BIggest problem is however, is comparing a paid machine(the 5000) to a rented one. With the rented one anything that goes wrong with the machine Wizard fixes for free. On the 5000 because it is purchased, you have to pay dearly for any replacement part, not becasue its a 5000 but becasue it was a purchased and out of warrenty.


BIll
 
And one of them cannot cut 8 ply mats.....

Allegedly the 5000 can cut 8 ply if you remove the backing and toy around with a screw driver to adjust the blade depth....

Yeah, they are identical machines.
 
wcox said:
I should think you should talk to somebody at wizard.

Many things said here are flattly wrong,
.
Example is the software, its the SAME software, same updates etc. So software is not a reason. Also 5000 cuts v grooves just as well as the 8500.

BIggest problem is however, is comparing a paid machine(the 5000) to a rented one. With the rented one anything that goes wrong with the machine Wizard fixes for free. On the 5000 because it is purchased, you have to pay dearly for any replacement part, not becasue its a 5000 but becasue it was a purchased and out of warrenty.

BIll
Click to expand...
Just to put things in context .... in earlier posts I said:
"Not sure if current software works with the 5000."

"If you have old 5000 software ... "
​
My 5000 would never cut good V-grooves, despite every effort - maybe other 5000s were different
 
I hated to see my 5000 go when I moved up to an 8500.
With a little tweeking I could get my 5000 to cut some cool stuff.
I really enjoyed my 5000. every now & then I miss my 5000, But I have to say and no disrespect to the 5000 it was a good cutter my 8500 is much better cutter. You have to remember the 8500 is also a Third or Fourth Generation CMC compared to 5000 First or second generation CMC.
Of course it is going to be better.

Can you run a shop with the 5000? We did for over eleven years before up grading to the 8500.
I now would not go back to the 5000 CMC.
But if you were looking for an entry level cutter at a probably a great price It would be a good start if you did not want to go new.
The improvements in the 8500 cutter itself I think are substantial.
My guess would also be that the improvements in the next generation will be better than the last. Just the way it works.
Just set it up should only take about an hour max. Kick the tires.
Check see what version of software you have 5.5 5.6 or 5.7
 
Just a suggestion because I'm not really sure how their policies work...but perhaps the folks at Wizard will accept this old machine towards the purchase of the machine you're now renting. That sounds like it could solve all of your worries (okay, other than being responsible for machine breakdown).

If nothing else...maybe they'll toot your horn for you and do a cash for clunkers.... trade-ins can be worth a lot of money...and if they come across someone willing to buy maybe they'll refer them to you....
 
An option would be to purchase the 8500 out of rental and trade in the 5000. I don't know what Wizard's current policy is, but they gave me a fairly generous trade in allowance on my 5000 (purchased used) when I upgraded to an 8000.
Your best information is going to come from Wizard about the support they offer on the 5000. My understanding is that they are no longer manufacturing replacement parts for the 5000 and any parts you need to get will have come off of machines that were traded in.
 
contact the cmc doctors guys---they deal in anything(i think) cmc may be your best/only out for this boat anchor.
 
We in Wizard Support would like to bring all of you up to date on the Model 5000.



The Support Team is providing phone/product support to all Wizard CMC users. The models that we support are CMC 5000, CMC 8000, CMC 8500, CMC 8500e with SBT Head, Eclipse Classic, Eclipse XL and Eclipse Pro. We have OEM parts for all machines supported and provide warranties for all listed machines. Depending on the type of computer you have we have updates to the MatDesigner software to fit your needs and updates are free. Wizard Customer Services also provides in shop service for a fee, just call and schedule.

There are around 2000 CMC 5000 users world wide so supporting this product will not end in the foreseeable future. The model 5000 has been a workhorse for many framers for the last 15 years.
 
Thanks for clearing that up, Dani. When Jim (Gumby) came to train me on my 8000, he showed me a number of designs he had done on his 5000. They were quite impressive, so I know the 5000 is a capable machine, in the right hands.;)

:cool: Rick
 
Before sending the machine back, talk to Wizard. When preparing my annual tax assessment last week, I contacted them about the value of the machine. I was shocked to learn just how little it would cost to own it. And not intending to do a commercial for Wizard, I also learned that they are currently running a special that would allow me to purchase it for about 70% of its tax value. This was a very affordable number. I might keep a 5000 as a back up if I already owned it or somebody gave it to me and I had the space. But probably not. The learning curve in getting it into production will probably be steep. And don't forget the time and cost of packing the leased machine up and shipping it. It cost $500 to get the machine to me, so I figure it will cost at least that much if I ever send it back. I think you should encourage your boss to ask around and think seriously before sending the leased machine back.
 
Thanks Dani for your input. So far my boss has been dealing with Wizard, but I think I'm going to call and see about trading the 5000 in towards buying our leased one. He's asked me to try and sell the 5000 (now that I've convinced him to keep the 8500).
I totally understand that some people love their 5000's, I think I'd be the same way if that's what I was trained with, you get used to a certain machine after a certain period of time. I guess there's also a bit of pride in using older, more hands-on machines...it just so happens that I've got used to the nice new flashy one!
Thanks for everyone's advice. I knew it would be a conversation we'd have to have with Wizard ultimately, but it's invaluable to get the hands on framer's opinion too!
 
Excellent.

Those Wizard people are cool, huh?. I haven't even BOUGHT from them and I see how hard they work to make people happy.

I want my machine to run forever...but when it doesn't.... It'll be a Wizard...
 
We recently had to live without any CMC for about 3 weeks. The computer that ran the Wizard 8500 was kaput. I ordered a Dell Vostro with XP installed and after being promised a 2-3 day delivery window, we waited 3 weeks with constant delays. Dell has not let us down like this before and we kept thinking it would be here any day, so we did not move our IF computer over to run the Wizard.

Everyone brushed up on manual skills on the Cronomat that we did NOT get rid of when we bought the CMC. In fact we use it for straight cuts on mounts every day. We had only one employee who never learned to use a bar cutter for mat cutting. Everyone else was with us before the Wizard.

We were also lucky to get the cut files off the old hard drive. We had not realized that our back up drive had stopped working regularly. We have a lot of saved cut files. I now have a trial plan with Dell for online back up on that computer.

Which brings me to ask, do you have staff members who do not know how to cut mats without a CMC? Do you add this in to your training even though new staff will probably always use a CMC?
 
Create a Post
Back
Top