Wiring suggestions for oversized piece

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Julie Walsh

Julie Walsh

MGF, Master Grumble Framer
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Rest In Peace

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May 30, 2007
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I have a shadowbox 65"wide by 18"high containing a fairly light object and 3mm glass. Under the dust cover, I have secured wire in the shape of a W to eliminate any bowing in the middle. Now I'm not sure how to wire the back. I remember reading somewhere that you can incorporate the top and bottom with the wire, but can't remember how. Any suggestions? (By the way, I have no wall buddies or D-rings that I can use and there isn't enough wood to hold a two-hole hanger.)
 
Could you put the two-hole hangers vertically, with no wire between them -- hanging it like a mirror?

Do you have security hangers? Those might work, too.
 
Hi Paul,
Thanks for the suggestion on verticle mounting the hanger, I didn't consider it.
 
For oversized and/or heavy pieces, we often string wire like this. (Ignore the dimensions – they were for something else)

TwoQuarters.jpg


Most often we’ll use strap hangers, but, on occasion, we have used screw eyes. Just make sure the wire is anchored at the bottom rail while the wire on the vertical rails is allowed to move freely. Depending on my mood, we have the anchor points between 1/4 and 1/3 of the length of the bottom rail as measured from the outside.

I believe that if you have two hooks directly above the anchor points, stresses on the wire will be minimized (if I correctly extrapolate this from the examples given in F.A.C.T.S.
 
Instead of the "w" wire under the dust cover, another way is to use a piece of coroplast or upson the same size as your frame OD (or slightly smaller) and staple through the material into the frame. The solid rigid back will act as a strainer and keep the frame from bowing.
 
I would guess that if you have enough room to screw in verticle hangers, you should have enough room for wall buddies. They would add much more stability & support for the width and weight. You might also consider using Frame Strap or Frame Tite.
 
Jim Miller posted info on the Lincoln 8 point system in this thread . . .
http://www.thegrumble.com/showthread.php?t=14334

I am wondering that if all the wiring is pulled up taught, could there be too much strain on the wire, as in the angle normally preferred for wire ?

Found this when searching around . . . I was actually looking for a diagram I'm sure someone posted showing a little more simpler W wiring format to support particularly the bottom stile on larger frames.

Can anyone else find this, or have it on saved elsewhere ?
 
Thanks for digging up that thread Les, I honestly didn't remember anything about Jim Miller posting an 8 point wiring diagram and Less isn't with us anymore so his photo postings are gone. (That would be lessafinger, not you Les).

I would be interested in seeing that diagram again if Jim would be so kind as to post it for us. I know that he has finally mastered the photo posting challenge now and can do that kind of stuff. :p
 
I think that usually the heaviest part of most frame jobs is the glass, don't you?

The glass has a straight bottom edge. So the weight of the glass can't make the center of the bottom stile of the frame bow downwards. So what is the benefit of the 2 attachment points in the bottom stile?

The FACTS standard is quite clear about the stresses on the wire and the benefits of hanging on 2 hooks with the wire as vertical as possible up from the attachment points (D-Rings, Screw eyes, etc.). The standard uses 10 lbs. just to make the math easy for explaining the physics but the formula is linear and pertains to any weight frame.
 
I have repaired a few of those large pieces wired with that 'transferring-weight-to-the-bottom-rail' method. I don't think much of it and do not employ it in my shop. I do not think that the wood is strong enough once a hanger/fastener is installed in such a way that pulls perpendicular to the grain. (as it does in both the side and bottom rails.) If the wood of the frame is not beefy enough to support with two side hangers, then a strainer frame is in order.

If you are concerned about the glass popping out of the top caused by weight or someone carrying it by the top rail, you could staple mat board straps between the bottom and top rails- this is a version of what Rob does. My opinion is that wire strung in that method stretches too readily to do any good.

I would probably use a strainer frame and a Z-bar on this piece.

edie the daughterofanengineer goddess
 
My two cents ... I'm with Edie ... if the frame is marginal, add a strainer ... if there is no room for a strainer minimally attach a sheet of matboard to the entire back (stapled into the frame at 3" intervals) ... then use a non-wire hanger (e.g. WallBuddies, Z-Bar, vertical strap hangers, or the like).
 
WallBuddies, Z-Bar, WallBuddies, D-Rings, or WallBuddies would be better than a wire.

Julie Walsh said:
I have a shadowbox 65"wide by 18"high ...and there isn't enough wood to hold a two-hole hanger.)
Click to expand...

"..isn't enough wood..."??

That means the moulding is narrow, right? This does not bode well. If your frame is too narrow to hold a 2-hole hanger, then it's probably too narrow for any other kind of hanging system. In that case, I'm with Edie. Put a back-box or a strainer on it.

Or, as Rob suggested, fasten a solid board to the back, such as Coroplast.

After you install the backbox/strainer/solid backing board, or even if the frame is sturdier than you have implied, I suggest using WallBuddies, Z-Bar, or some other hanging system that does not pull the side rails together. If the frame is deep, tension of the wire would tend to twist it in inward at the point of termination. Bad framing.

No matter what sort of issues you have with the moulding, I probably would consider a wire to be the last resort on a 65" wide frame. There are plenty of really good hanging systems out there, and most variations of wire are not among them.
 
On large frames I have always used a triangle design in for my wire: two d-rings or one piece metal hangers with two holes on the sides and one hanger in the middle of the bottom rail. I was taught this method by a person who said that the "triangle is one of the strongest geometric designs". I believed her and have had no failures to date. Another way to support the frames is to attach on the back of the frame a mat board strip in the center
 
Greg Fremstad said:
I think that usually the heaviest part of most frame jobs is the glass, don't you?

The glass has a straight bottom edge. So the weight of the glass can't make the center of the bottom stile of the frame bow downwards. So what is the benefit of the 2 attachment points in the bottom stile?
Click to expand...

I feel it is also the side stiles are under enormous pressures inwards, so spreading the pressure on all stiles helps too there.
This is particularly prevalent with panoramic type formats.

Actually, having the full straight edge of the glass on the bottom shouldn't make the bottom stile pressure to bow (twist maybe if too light), but being fully supported more an overall weight problem on the corners ?

Still I figure if some thing's that bad either use the full Coro (or ply etc) backing stapled or screwed ed to the frame, or just start with heavy enough material in the first place (design).

Jim, thanks for that diagram.
Obviously the wire isn't threaded up totally taut as originally described in the text.

This isn't the W diagram I was thinking of, previously posted on the G.
That was posted maybe in the past 18 months or so, and was posted by Jo B, Bill H, or someone of similar good stead.

Edit : Looking at Bills diagram above again, that is probably fine enough for most jobs in any case, otherwise the Lincoln System or other non-wire methods could be used.
 
I would agree with Mik and Paul....I have used both methods and both seem to work very well with the mouldings I have in store and with some of the frames my customers bring in.
 
Mirror straps. There is a reason mirrors are hung with them, it's because they do the job properly with minimum stress on the miters. Many Grumblers, believe in four point, or even more, wiring methods, I am not one of them.

Just about every one of those with that artsy craftsy wiring method, that end up in my shop for whatever reason, have "popped" miters. Every now and then I will see it used on a large heavy moulding that has been joined properly, and it is just fine.

Myself, to me, it looks like an amateur framer trying to look like he/she knows what they are doing. It just looks, and is, unprofessional.

John
 
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