JudyN
MGF, Master Grumble Framer
Ok everyone is talking about networking computers in the shop. Someone told me I can do it via "wireless" networking. What do you think?
Wireless networking?
- Thread starter JudyN
- Start date
Hi Judy
Wireless works with the same instructions, pretty much, except that you'd use a different router. I suggest the new Linksys WRT54G router. It costs about $110, instead of $50 for the wired equivalent. You also have to buy wireless network cards for each computer, which are about $50-$79 each. (wired cards are $10-$20)
The computers should be less than 1000 feet apart, and it works slower than the wired equivalent. In a "perfect" environment, these things claim that they can go 1500 feet; but I doubt it
For internet use, you won't notice; but with the POS it should be noticeably slower. There are also potential security concerns, but it's possible to take precautions to make your wireless network somewhat secure. (ie: Someone sitting outside the shop, with a laptop, accessing your files, etc)
If wiring is possible, it's what I usually recommend.
Perhaps someone with more experience with the wireless can give their opinion. I tried the wireless stuff about 2 years ago and didn't like it, and haven't tried again. (it was an older wireless technology with too many security concerns, and wouldn't even transmit from one room to the next due to a weak signal) The newer stuff is using a higher frequency and should be much better.
Mike
[ 09-18-2003, 04:34 PM: Message edited by: Mike-L@GTP ]
Wireless works with the same instructions, pretty much, except that you'd use a different router. I suggest the new Linksys WRT54G router. It costs about $110, instead of $50 for the wired equivalent. You also have to buy wireless network cards for each computer, which are about $50-$79 each. (wired cards are $10-$20)
The computers should be less than 1000 feet apart, and it works slower than the wired equivalent. In a "perfect" environment, these things claim that they can go 1500 feet; but I doubt it
If wiring is possible, it's what I usually recommend.
Perhaps someone with more experience with the wireless can give their opinion. I tried the wireless stuff about 2 years ago and didn't like it, and haven't tried again. (it was an older wireless technology with too many security concerns, and wouldn't even transmit from one room to the next due to a weak signal) The newer stuff is using a higher frequency and should be much better.
Mike
[ 09-18-2003, 04:34 PM: Message edited by: Mike-L@GTP ]
You can add wireless to an existing network. For web browsing you probably won't notice much, if any, much difference in speed. Even for your POS, you won't notice much difference. And that's with the older 802.11b standard (11mb/sec speed). The newer 802.11g standard has a 54 mb/sec speed.
You should note that most cable modems have a max speed of 600 to 800 KB/Sec. The older wireless tech with an 11MB/sec speed is about 15 times faster than your cable modem.
Security: The biggest security problem is people not setting it up. Set up an encripted connection and you should be fine. Don't use the public defaults or others can access it.
I have a combination wired/wireless network in my home/office/shop. My regular computers are all hardwired and my notebook is wireless.
For someone doing this from scratch, I would recommend getting an access point that handles both wired and wireless connections. Most of these have 4 wired connections in addition to the wireless so you can hardwire the main computers and use wireless for the notebooks and computers that you can't wire. Dual purpose switches like these are about $110 for the older and about $220 for the newer. Linksys has a good product line for both. Unless the wireless have a REALLY heavy (always downloading large files)transfer load, the older technology is still good. I've downloaded files that are 50-100 MB in size on my older (802.11b) wireless notebook without any speed problems.
Most new computers come with a wired network connection for desktops and a wireless card for notebooks so using a dual purpose switch makes sense for many.
For a little more information on the types vist:
http://www.linksys.com/products/wirelessstandards.asp
Forget the 802.11a. Use either the new (802.11g) or the old (802.11a).
Range: The usable range for most is under 500 feet. I've used my notebook on my deck but can't get more than a couple of hundred feet from my house before it drops out.
[ 09-18-2003, 05:09 PM: Message edited by: Larry Peterson ]
You should note that most cable modems have a max speed of 600 to 800 KB/Sec. The older wireless tech with an 11MB/sec speed is about 15 times faster than your cable modem.
Security: The biggest security problem is people not setting it up. Set up an encripted connection and you should be fine. Don't use the public defaults or others can access it.
I have a combination wired/wireless network in my home/office/shop. My regular computers are all hardwired and my notebook is wireless.
For someone doing this from scratch, I would recommend getting an access point that handles both wired and wireless connections. Most of these have 4 wired connections in addition to the wireless so you can hardwire the main computers and use wireless for the notebooks and computers that you can't wire. Dual purpose switches like these are about $110 for the older and about $220 for the newer. Linksys has a good product line for both. Unless the wireless have a REALLY heavy (always downloading large files)transfer load, the older technology is still good. I've downloaded files that are 50-100 MB in size on my older (802.11b) wireless notebook without any speed problems.
Most new computers come with a wired network connection for desktops and a wireless card for notebooks so using a dual purpose switch makes sense for many.
For a little more information on the types vist:
http://www.linksys.com/products/wirelessstandards.asp
Forget the 802.11a. Use either the new (802.11g) or the old (802.11a).
Range: The usable range for most is under 500 feet. I've used my notebook on my deck but can't get more than a couple of hundred feet from my house before it drops out.
[ 09-18-2003, 05:09 PM: Message edited by: Larry Peterson ]
C
Cliff Wilson
Guest
I put in a wireless network here at the shop.
One computer (The Wizard) hooked directly (hardwired) to the router (wireless and four hard wire ports) which is hooked to the cable modem. Two computers in the front (show room) connected via USB wireless points. Works great.
I have D-Link. Costs: router (D-Link DI-614+) 57.99, two USB Points (D-Link DWL-120+) 32.99. All were "open box" with rebates at Best Buy. I think the "non-open box" price was $7 more each.
The whole thing was less than $150.
I forget all the specs, (knew them at the time) but they have the "latest security," but are not the fastest available. They seem more than adequate for my use.
The only "trick" to installing/using them is that (because I use dynamic IP addresses) they must be powered up in sequence; modem, router, station units.
Good Luck,
Cliff
One computer (The Wizard) hooked directly (hardwired) to the router (wireless and four hard wire ports) which is hooked to the cable modem. Two computers in the front (show room) connected via USB wireless points. Works great.
I have D-Link. Costs: router (D-Link DI-614+) 57.99, two USB Points (D-Link DWL-120+) 32.99. All were "open box" with rebates at Best Buy. I think the "non-open box" price was $7 more each.
The whole thing was less than $150.
I forget all the specs, (knew them at the time) but they have the "latest security," but are not the fastest available. They seem more than adequate for my use.
The only "trick" to installing/using them is that (because I use dynamic IP addresses) they must be powered up in sequence; modem, router, station units.
Good Luck,
Cliff
Wow, that's a great chart you posted.
54G (802.11g) is what I would go for if I was shopping. It has a greater range than the newer 54A (802.11a) and is downward compat with the older/slower 802.11b network cards.
It's interesting that some router companies are advertising 1500 and even 1800 feet range, but the Linksys is suggesting a more realistic range of "100-150 feet indoors". When you start moving further away and going from room to room, it negotiates down to a slower operating speed. Even at best, it's about half the speed of an equivalent wired (100mb or even 1000mb) network.
The wireless stuff is GREAT for laptops, inventory computers in a retail environment, or temporary setups. They use this technology heavily on cruise ships for portable computers such as the ones they use to call BINGOS. For machines fixed at a retail store counter, I personally prefer the wired variety.
Most wireless routers also have a 4 port switch built in, so they can be used with both wired and wireless connections at the same time.
54G (802.11g) is what I would go for if I was shopping. It has a greater range than the newer 54A (802.11a) and is downward compat with the older/slower 802.11b network cards.
It's interesting that some router companies are advertising 1500 and even 1800 feet range, but the Linksys is suggesting a more realistic range of "100-150 feet indoors". When you start moving further away and going from room to room, it negotiates down to a slower operating speed. Even at best, it's about half the speed of an equivalent wired (100mb or even 1000mb) network.
The wireless stuff is GREAT for laptops, inventory computers in a retail environment, or temporary setups. They use this technology heavily on cruise ships for portable computers such as the ones they use to call BINGOS. For machines fixed at a retail store counter, I personally prefer the wired variety.
Most wireless routers also have a 4 port switch built in, so they can be used with both wired and wireless connections at the same time.
Cliff said:
Mike said:
I'm also working on rigging my truck with an actual PC so I can play mp3s and use GPS travel software, and I'll be able to connect to my home network from the garage.
I have that same problem.. I've got about 5 incoming ports mapped to several computers and I periodically have to reset that list. I just wish my router had an option to change the lease length on the address.
Mike said:
Yeah, I just use wifi for the laptop at home. I've also worked from Starbucks a couple times, but that's way too expensive for casual use. I'm looking forward to when I can get wifi with a value meal at McD's though...
I'm also working on rigging my truck with an actual PC so I can play mp3s and use GPS travel software, and I'll be able to connect to my home network from the garage.
My truck cd player gave up the ghost a while ago (after 9 years) and I replaced it with a CD player (about $220.00) that also plays MP3s and has an input jack for an external MP3 player. I burned an MP3 CD with about 150 of my top 10 zillion list (from CDs I owned, not napsterized). Way cool.
If you have a Pocket PC, you can equipment them with GPS and a wireless card and sync to your truck through your home network. I've never checked to see if any of the Pocket PCs have MP3 output but if they do (and I would be surprised if someone hasn't figured it out), you could download to your pocket PC either through the wireless card or CF card or just a normal sync and play your MP3s from the Pocket PC through the car CD.
Yeah, I wouldn't mind a nice Pocket PC just for the sheer cool factor. But I just can't justify the price. Right now the most expensive thing on my list is an LCD screen, running a little over $100, since I can pretty much scrounge up the rest of the parts I need. Plus I can stick a giant HD in there. A decent Pocket PC that'll do GPS and MP3s and wireless looks closer to 3 or 4 hundred. Ouch. Unless Wizard want to buy me one for "research"..
I have a pretty basic Palm m105 ($75 on ebay) that's adequate for most things, and when I first got it I wrote a little interface for the Wizard on it where I could enter in all my opening sizes for multiple mats, and then launch the Wizard interface for positioning the openings. Nobody seemed interested though. Shrug. I heard Specialty Soft was looking at doing pricing on a handheld too, but they were thinking about using wireless to talk to the main database running on a server at the store.
I also wrote a cool little tool to queue up ISBN codes for books that I want to buy when I visit the bookstore. When I sync it searches Amazon and downloads all the info about that book to a local "wishlist" database on my home computer.
[ 09-19-2003, 05:55 PM: Message edited by: WizSteve ]
I have a pretty basic Palm m105 ($75 on ebay) that's adequate for most things, and when I first got it I wrote a little interface for the Wizard on it where I could enter in all my opening sizes for multiple mats, and then launch the Wizard interface for positioning the openings. Nobody seemed interested though. Shrug. I heard Specialty Soft was looking at doing pricing on a handheld too, but they were thinking about using wireless to talk to the main database running on a server at the store.
I also wrote a cool little tool to queue up ISBN codes for books that I want to buy when I visit the bookstore. When I sync it searches Amazon and downloads all the info about that book to a local "wishlist" database on my home computer.
[ 09-19-2003, 05:55 PM: Message edited by: WizSteve ]
In my prior life as a contract programmer, my last contract was a wireless project and my part was the programming for Pocket PCs and other CE devices. It's amazing how much functionality can be built into a PocketPC. About 80% of the Windows SDK is available. Another person on the project had the Palm part and he had to struggle to get similar functionality on the Palm.
Used Compaq iPaq 3650s are going for $100-125 on Ebay. I have a 3650 and see no need to get a new one.
You could write a complete (and I mean complete) pricing program on a PocketPC that could interface with the normal store pricing program. The only limitation is the limited screen real estate, but other than that, full pricing functionality could be built. With a wireless card and an interface to the store system, a design person wouldn't be limited to where the comnputer is. I don't believe that any of the available systems have such functionality.
I have though of writing (in my appropriate free time of which I seem to have none), a web based pricing system for stores. All the vendor information would be stored on my server and updated by me. Stores without a pricing system could subscribe for a (to be determined) monthly or per use (100 prices for $xx.99, etc). I've gone so far as to get a URL (fastframing.com) and do some prototypes. My time is limited at the moment but at some point I want to bring this up on thegrumble and see if there is any interest and features that might be desired. Most stores seem to spend too much time maintaining their pricing system or are paying more than they want. I have looked at some of the systems and I think that there is room for some legitimate competition. But that is for another day.
Adding PocketPC support to such a system would be a natural extension. With a wireless card and internet access, implementation would not be hard to add.
Used Compaq iPaq 3650s are going for $100-125 on Ebay. I have a 3650 and see no need to get a new one.
You could write a complete (and I mean complete) pricing program on a PocketPC that could interface with the normal store pricing program. The only limitation is the limited screen real estate, but other than that, full pricing functionality could be built. With a wireless card and an interface to the store system, a design person wouldn't be limited to where the comnputer is. I don't believe that any of the available systems have such functionality.
I have though of writing (in my appropriate free time of which I seem to have none), a web based pricing system for stores. All the vendor information would be stored on my server and updated by me. Stores without a pricing system could subscribe for a (to be determined) monthly or per use (100 prices for $xx.99, etc). I've gone so far as to get a URL (fastframing.com) and do some prototypes. My time is limited at the moment but at some point I want to bring this up on thegrumble and see if there is any interest and features that might be desired. Most stores seem to spend too much time maintaining their pricing system or are paying more than they want. I have looked at some of the systems and I think that there is room for some legitimate competition. But that is for another day.
Adding PocketPC support to such a system would be a natural extension. With a wireless card and internet access, implementation would not be hard to add.
I have to completely concur. Even with the tool I am using, PocketStudio, writing for the Palm is tedious at best.
