Grumble Alert Why I Don't Like Fillets On Mats

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Framing Goddess

Framing Goddess

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Joined
Jul 18, 2000
Posts
4,319
Loc
Cleveland, Ohio
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These photos pretty much tell the story.
This is a little print I framed for a customer in about 1988.
Ten years later, I bought it back from his estate.
Twelve years after that, I took it apart to remat it and this is what I found.
The 2nd and 3rd photos show the 2 ply rag barrier I applied within 1/16 of an inch from the edge of the fillet. In other words, less than 1/16" of the fillet hung out over the edge of the barrier.
The print was hinged to the back of the mat with filmoplast tape.
Crazy thing is that the 2 ply rag barrier was not at all discolored.

No, this print was not discolored when I originally framed it. It was brand spanking new.

I DO love fillets on frames however, but I was never too keen on putting a wood fillet right on/near the art. I also think they look kinda silly, a wood thing on a paper mat; like wearing high heeled pumps with jeans. Now I have a good case for not using them on mats. Yucky.

edie the acidburnsavailablehere goddess
 
Not sure why the 2 ply rag barrier paper was not discolored, but the only true barrier would be metalic film or glass. I hesitate to use fillets on valuable prints also, but when I do I use a mylar tape barrier.

F.A.C.T.S. standards, I believe, state that nothing non-archival should be within 1" of any artwork no matter what barrier you use. Of course this would be difficult with a painting on canvas.
 
I am not a fan of doing fillet jobs as I find their finishes too easy to flake off at the corners. That being said, I almost always put the fillet between 2 mats. This seems to take care of the issue you're having.
 
When I install fillets, I seal the back right up to the sight edge with Lineco Frame Sealing Tape, a metal barrier. On valuable pieces I also put a 4-ply mat beneath the fillet layer.
It would be interesting to take apart an older piece framed with the Lineco seal to see how it is faring.
:cool: Rick

P.S. How is the fillet physically installed on that piece? What about the 2-ply? I hesitate to even ask, but it looks like some less-than-ideal tape might be peeking out there in a couple of the photos. Could that be a contributor to the staining we see?

P.P.S. I never considered 2-ply to be very useful for much of anything except making storage folders etc.
 
As you can plainly see, 2 ply rag (even 4 ply) is not a barrier against much of anything. Barrier paper is even worse as a barrier. If you look closely with a microscope you will see that rag mats look like a scotch brite pad and they will pass air and gasses easily.

I don't beleive that the Lineco foil tape is actually made with foil but is a bunch of aluminum (or aluminum colored) dots very close together. I think that the only effective barrier part of this tape is the gummy adhesive.

A framer friend of mine showed me a nice etching that had been burned right through a 4 ply rag bottom mat, the top mat was a good 'ol paper mat.

It was burned EXCEPT where the ATG tape held the two mats together. My clue about the adhesive being a barrier.
 
Greg... your empirical studies sometimes shake the very foundation of beliefs that we often blindly accept. I thank you for not parroting the written and unwritten "gospel" of what many accept without question.

I will never forget the first time I spoke to you about foam core board and you posed the question... "Have you ever seen any damage caused by standard foam core board to artwork?". No, I hadn't... just the foam board itself sometimes yellowed but not the artwork.
 
I think Greg is on to something, too!
The only margin that was not stained is at the top under the filmoplast hinge.
And yes, it now makes sense that if the staining could happen through 2 ply, it could happen through 4 ply, too.
Rick, what you see peeking out is the wood of the fillet. I probably atg'd the fillet in to the mat.

I remember way back when I did this piece for this customer; he was a favorite of mine, an elderly Italian gay man with macular degeneration. He had to use a magnifying glass at galleries and art shows to see the art work, but that probably only slowed his art buying a little bit. He was a passionate and dedicated art collector his entire life. I became good friends with him and we quickly realized that he could still, with his impaired vision, enjoy documentary films in the theaters, so those became our "dates!"

Anyway, I tried to talk him out of using a fillet on this one, but he had used them on other pieces at home and did not care about preservation issues. He told me with a laugh, "Honey, I am not going to live long enough to worry about it!"



Thanks, Greg! The thick plottens!

edie the documentarycollector goddess
 
Greg Fremstad said:
...I don't beleive that the Lineco foil tape is actually made with foil but is a bunch of aluminum (or aluminum colored) dots very close together. I think that the only effective barrier part of this tape is the gummy adhesive...
Click to expand...

Have you discussed that rather alarming assertion with Lineco? They claim on the box: "Aluminum barrier layer prevents bleed-through of harmful elements." "Think" is an unusual word to describe this product.
:popc:
 
Thanks so much for sharing that with us.

I would never have thought that a regular mat would burn artwork through a rag mat! I also trusted the aluminium barrier paper was safe.

Scary stuff.
 
Yep!!

Further proof that however conscientious you may be there are still forces in the universe which will conspire to make you look bad.

I have never used fillets, mainly because I am fussy about my work find them too fiddly and time-consuming to be profitable but now I have a more practical objection.
 
Here is what Lineco says on their web site for this product:

Self-Adhesive Frame Sealing Tape
Frame sealing tape seals off raw wood rabbets and fillets to protect the art and stop acid migration. An acid-free, lignin-free buffered paper is laminated to a thin aluminum barrier layer and coated with an aggressive, acrylic adhesive that bonds firmly to raw wood. The aluminum provides a barrier that stops acid migration and meets the FACTS standard for maximum preservation framing.

I have also observed the phenomenon of ATG or other tapes being the most effective blockers within an otherwise overall acid migration. Obviously various materials fall along a range of porosities. As for the Lineco foil tape, this is the first claim I have ever seen that it is other than an effective barrier. If it meets the FACTS standards, I feel pretty good about using it. That said, I still agree with Edie's original premise that it is probably not a good idea to use a fillet within the framing package for a valuable or irreplaceable piece of art. Sometimes, however, the customer has strong opinions about what they want and all you can do is give your best advice and then use the best techniques you have to carry out their wishes.

:cool: Rick
 
Fillet

Excellent thread. It may be the case that the peroxides coming from the fillet caused some component in the print paper to discolor, but that same material was not part of the separation layer. Putting wood near paper is always risky and the adhesive on a pressure-sensitive tape may oxidize and "dry" out over time, allowing it to become dislodged. The pressure-sensitive hinge that seems to have stopped the stain migration may have done that by preventing air movement. It is worth watching to see whether something shows up, there, later, since many stains are latent. A UV light may be useful, there.


Hugh
 
Fillets are extra money. Why not take extra money? In terms of conservation we are all here pretty conscientious about doing the best for the art, as we know how to do. We also are very open to learning more and hopefully to changing our offerings as we learn newer and better ways to do our craft.

I don't do a lot of fillets, but I certainly do not shun them. It adds a very nice margin of profit onto a framing job, and adds a great dimension to the look of the art.
 
If I could just have 10-12 fillets that would work with everything, I would show them more often. I have often started down the fillet road and then the customer likes a frame that doesn't have a corresponding fillet. This makes for an awkward moment at the counter trying to figure out how to marry the two.
 
A mat or 2 on the art, then the glass, then a fabric mat with filet on top of the glass - that's my preference.

The texture of the mat looks great.

The filet is out front, even touchable.

Less glass showing, less reflection, glass is closer to the art - fantastic with museum glass.

Far less hazard to the art with the wood of the filet outside the package.

My customers like it.
 
Bandsaw, how do you keep the mat from warping when it is outside of the glazing?
 
I often show fillets but most of fillet jobs is fillet goes into frame.

Customers are always amazed what a range of new possibilities this offers. THat's why it's custom framing. If you don't show off your best designs, why would a customer pay your prices.


Interesting thread and photos Edi! I don't use fillets in mats a lot, but this is certainly something to keep in mind and to advise against for valuable art.
 
FrameMakers said:
If I could just have 10-12 fillets that would work with everything, I would show them more often. I have often started down the fillet road and then the customer likes a frame that doesn't have a corresponding fillet. This makes for an awkward moment at the counter trying to figure out how to marry the two.
Click to expand...

If I'm looking at a wood toned frame I'll often show a brighter broken leaf gold filet for intentional contrast. I called it a "mismatched pair" and it works when you have a piece which is mostly darker with hints of sunlight.


IMAG1775.jpg
 
Framemakers,

The filet, mat, and whatever spacers are needed to level the mat to the filet are attached with ATG and some glue. This is then attached to the glass with ATG which sticks to glass like you know what to a blanket.

I didn't have one in the shop but ran down the block to a coffee shop which has had this one hanging for about 10 years:
 

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Or use an AR product for the inner protective layer, and then a second layer for final glazing.
 
Ylva said:
I often show fillets but most of fillet jobs is fillet goes into frame.

Customers are always amazed what a range of new possibilities this offers. THat's why it's custom framing. If you don't show off your best designs, why would a customer pay your prices.


Interesting thread and photos Edi! I don't use fillets in mats a lot, but this is certainly something to keep in mind and to advise against for valuable art.
Click to expand...


Agree. One of our frequent customers has used a fillet or two on every frame. Seldom do we put fillets on mats.
 
Bandsaw said:
Framemakers,

The filet, mat, and whatever spacers are needed to level the mat to the filet are attached with ATG and some glue. This is then attached to the glass with ATG which sticks to glass like you know what to a blanket.

I didn't have one in the shop but ran down the block to a coffee shop which has had this one hanging for about 10 years:
Click to expand...

When trying this my mats always ripple away from the fillet. I don't understand how you keep them so flat when they are exposed to the elements.
 
The filet lays flat on the glass. The mat, cut with reverse bevel, lays flat on the top, outside rabbet of the filet. The space between the mat and the glass is filled with spacers of suitable thickness. Like all framing, all layers are complete and even in thickness. The mat is attached to the filet by about 2 inch alternating sections of ATG and glue. The ATG holds until the glue sets. I run a sandpaper block along the filet rabbet to ensure glue and ATG will bond as some mouldings are waxed or have finishes that resist bonding. The spacers are attached under the mat with both ATG and glue. The filet, mats, and spacer assembly is attached to the glass with a line of ATG along the back of the filet. The frame holds the outside against the glass. I'm at home and looking around the room there are 3 pieces framed in this manner, 2 needlework and 1 photo which are at least 15 years old and look perfect. I've never had one of these come apart.
 
When assembled that way, I see no reason why there should be any problems with longevity, unless exposed to real extremes of temperature and humidity. Of course, the fabric mat is exposed to the room's "elements", but that shouldn't be any more problematic than a linen liner on a painting being exposed.
:kaffeetrinker_2: Rick
 
When I come across new to me framing ideas I will grab some scraps and make a mockup to see if I want to pursue the idea further. Then I can decide to move ahead with the idea or drop it. This filet/mat on top of glass will suit some and not other framers - give it a try.
 
FrameMakers said:
...That being said, I almost always put the fillet between 2 mats. This seems to take care of the issue you're having.
Click to expand...

Like Dave, we never show fillets on our samples or at the design table without a mat above and a mat below... think of it as an alternative design in a triple matting configuration. With our entire staff on the same page (trained in this manner)... I do not recall a customer asking for anything where the fillet is the last element near the artwork.

Amazing how powerful procedural discipline can be...

Bob Doyle said:
Fillets are extra money... ...It adds a very nice margin of profit onto a framing job, and adds a great dimension to the look of the art.
Click to expand...

Indeed - we do lots of fillets, always have and love the look...


John
 
I use fillets on the majority of my framing. Because conservation is an issue in most of my work, I routinely use Lineco's aluminum barrier tape, and where important, fillets with metal finishes (metal leaf,i.e.) that wrap around enough to meet the tape. Larson's 131912 water gilt fillet is an excellent example for quality, ease of fitting and a metal barrier around the edge.

Surprise.jpg
 
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