white spray finish on maple

Create a Post
A

adjframes

True Grumbler
Joined
Dec 17, 2011
Posts
85
Loc
Boston, MA
Hi everybody:

I just bought a bunch of framing equipment from some recently closed shops and am about ready to open up my own little studio outside of Boston. I've done a little bit of framing before for my own photography, and have a friend with a frame shop to consult, but am still very new to a lot of the intricacies. I'm planning on catering primarily to artists and working with simple hardwoods (VT hardwoods).

First of many questions: A lot of my customers will be asking for opaque white, so I'm trying to figure out the best spraying method without getting a sprayer (for space/ventilation reasons). Today I found a frame my friend had put together, profile 130 raw maple (http://vermonthardwoods.com/profile.asp?p=130), went to a local paint store and got Krylon primer and paint, with a Deft clear wood finish spray. 1 coat primer, 3-4 coats paint, 2 coats clear finish later and it is looking a tinge bluish. I really need to get it pure white to match the super white mat boards. Has anybody used a similar process that knows a better color/brand of aerosol to use? Know of an easier way to get the same finish?

bonus question: the bolt to change the height of the foot lever on my old Morso chopper seems to be on there pretty tightly and I cant seem to lower it. any tricks to loosen the bolt?

Thanks!
Alex

http://adjframes.tumblr.com
 
If your using Vermont Hardwoods, why are you not having them finish it? I did a large job earlier this year that used 100% VH opaque white on maple. As I recall the white paint finish was the same price as most any other finish.
 
In today's world of low VOC's I think you will have a hard time finding a premade white product that WILL STAY white - especially white enough to match digital whites. Many of the bright white mats achieve their brightness through the use of OBA's.

You may need to use a pigmented lacquer - and buying a premixed product and using spray cans is an awfully expensive way to apply product. A good HVLP rig will pay for itself in no time if you are doing any kind of volume. Why would your space/ventilation requirements be any different when using spray cans vs HVLP?

Why are you using Deft over Krylon paint? I would think you have way too many steps to be cost effective. How about using a high solids white surfacing primer and then a pigmented lacquer with a flattening agent to provide the appropriate sheen?
 
If you are using a high quality moulding like VT's why use junk paint? Let VT paint or stain it for you. That way when the customer comes back for more the finish will match. Finish your own, and guessing while you are doing it will bite you in the butt down the road.

My experience says an artist will not want to pay high prices for high volume. VT's moulding is not cheap moulding. You're gonna price yourself out of business fast if you don't watch out.

That foot lever is attached to some very sharp and unforgiving blades. Be very carefully messing with them, they'll bite, and bite very hard and very fast. The foot pedal should not be messed with.

Or are you talking about the pedal limiter on the front of the Morso? I don't have one of those bolts :) If it's stuck use a nut busting lubricant spray. And heat from a torch helps loosen stuck and rusted nuts. I've used heat on nuts on cars, but not on a Morso. A breaker bar from a hardware store could get you the added leverage too.
But those blades can do serious bodily harm be careful around them :)
 
Thanks for the tips. I am considering having VT do it, but was first experimenting to see if I could get a similar finish myself (for less money, but retaining quality). I am also wondering whether I will be able to match the color white when I fill the nail holes. How did it work Dave? Did you get length or chop?

I would like to get a sprayer at some point, I was just seeing if this method would work while I have limited space and no air compressor (as of yet).

As for price, I am planning on buying everything raw and staining/painting myself. I think there are enough artists in Boston who are looking for a place to get high quality frames made and I think I can do it at a reasonable price.

Bob, thanks for the help on the pedal limiter nut. I'll see if I can budge it.
 
adjframes said:
I am also wondering whether I will be able to match the color white when I fill the nail holes. How did it work Dave? Did you get length or chop?
Click to expand...

I ordered chop in this case but only because the size of the frames would have left me with an excessive amount of waste. When I ran the numbers ordering chop only cost me slightly more then what length would have.

As to joining the frames, I used my Hoffman joiner and had perfect corners that did not need nails or for that matter filling. At the time VH did not offer hoffman routing, but now they do.
 
If you have the moulding people paint the wood for you, you are at that point using pre- finished moulding and that would defeat the purpose of painting it yourself, right? So....your problem is probably with the top coat. If you use a satin krylon you shouldn't have to put a clear coat on it. It should dry nice and hard as is. Maybe 2 coats primer and 2 coats white, sand or steel wool between each coat. That being said, you should get an HVLP and use water based paint. Better for you, better for the world!
Try spraying your bolt with WD- 40 and let it sit for a while. Or some good penetrating oil.
 
White molding

With the wonderful white profiles available from Metropolitan Molding and others, it is hard to imagine why anyone would want to go through the hassle of making your own.



Hugh
 
When doing your business plan, don't forget to factor in the costs of your time and labor to do the finishing, as well as special facilities and safety measures that may be required, in order to get a true comparison of costs vs. buying pre-finished moulding. If this is going to be your regular offering, don't plan on spray painting it on the back porch.
:kaffeetrinker_2: Rick
 
Just did another test this morning. Got some Rustoleum white, which goes on much thicker btw, 2 coats primer, 2 coats paint then checked it and it looked great! then I sprayed it with the clear finish and it goes a tiny bit blue. I think we have an answer, scallywag hit it right on the head: No clear spray! The finish looks really smooth and clean, which I'm happily surprised about. Think this should work as a stop gap before I jump headfirst into hvlp territory.

Got the limiter unstuck (hammered the wrench and it came loose!).

thanks for all the tips!
 
I have done some this, I found Rustoleum to dry unpredictably, some times very sticky for days. Krylon is much better but either finish is not as durable as one form a vendor like Vermont Hardwoods. Also why not invest in a sprayer and air compressor. The fumes from either are going to be equally bad. I hope your wearing a respirator while using spray paint, my 2 cents.
 
Remember to pay the EPA disposal fees for all those cans of spray paint, and make sure your "spray booth" is OSHA approved. OSHA has absolutely no sense of humor.

Randy is right about the durability of the rattle can spray paint vs. the finishes put on by manufacturers. I would imagine that VH's finish is considerably harder and abrasion resistant than any over the counter product.

On a personal note, why would you want to put an opaque finish on hard maple moulding? You can get the exact same finish from poplar or southern white maple. For that matter, you can get a prefinished white stem moulding from any number of suppliers for less than the raw maple (no offense toward VH). If your artist customers are looking for cheap, there are a lot better ways of getting there.
 
Wally, I thought the same thing. My customer had the choice between an LJ and the VH painted maple at double the price. He chose the VH. :)
 
####, this is all well and good, but how are you going to replicate the finish exactly when the customer comes back for more? Especially if they don't bring the original frame in for comparison.

In my eyes you have two choices.

  1. write the formula down. Exactly. Attach it to the order so that it can be replicated. Maybe even to the point of attaching a swatch of the paint, a chip of the moulding for future comparison.
  2. Order it pre-done by the moulding manufacturer. Let them deal with the formula and the exacting record keeping.
From my experience you'll get the customer back in for 5 more frames right when you are swamped and don't have the time to spare to dicker around with getting the right white, the correct paint can lot number, the correct number of coats.


Looking on VT's website the future headaches you'll avoid are worth the $4 added retail cost they charge per foot. Unless you expect to only have this customer come to you once then go elsewhere.... :)


I had a carpenter neighbor make moulding for my in the past. Great guy great work, but different each time. Heavy coat of stain once, thin the next time. can't have inconsistency. VT's job is making consistently great moulding. And your buying it finished. Are you stripping off their finish or just painting over it? This conversation makes me think of the three antique oval frames in my back room I have to do for a customer. Someone took a great frame and spray painted it with the radiator gold paint so popular in the day. Might have looked good then but being spray painted it didn't hold up.
 
Many years ago I worked for a guy that scoffed at EPA protocols . . .

I finally got fed up with coughing up Krylon and 777 spray and quit.

About a month later I drove by and there was crime tape wrapped and taped
to the building. I stopped next door at the diner..... EPA. Came and condemned
the building . . . and he went away for a little staycation in LA County.

That is when lacquer became only something very expensive that you went to
Arizona to get shot on a classic car. Chrome shops almost ceased to exist, and
powder-paint started to become big.

I'm with Hugh on this..... why are you re-inventing the wheel?
 
The only reason I could see to finish your own is in a last minute emergency or if you are creating a very high end, high dollar finish. Spraying your own Maple is crazy unless you are doing thousands of feet at a time.
 
If you want to do finished corner frames, finishing yourself might save you some money. But do be careful of the EPA and OSHA. NOTE: if you are a sole proprietor, OSHA does not apply, however, if you are a corp of any kind you are an employee even if you are but one of one. And the EPA always applies, even to non-business individuals.
 
If you buy from Vermont Hardwoods and have the chops Hoffman dovetailed, you will not need any putty to match. The cost of chopping and dovetailing is nominal, the finish is consistent and perfect. The frames I have been getting are tighter than some finished corner frames.

The kind of work you are talking about IMO should be reserved for the occasional one-off or emergency job. In my shop, the job would always be finished faster ordering the chops.
 
Create a Post
Back
Top