Which miter saw to get?

samcrimm

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didn't want to hijack the other miter saw post.

So will a dewalt cut good enough for picture framing?

I was looking at a used Bosco 12" double mitre saw, its big and well its big.

Sam
 

neilframer

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didn't want to hijack the other miter saw post.

So will a dewalt cut good enough for picture framing?

I was looking at a used Bosco 12" double mitre saw, its big and well its big.

Sam
I have used many different saws and choppers.
My favorite saw is the CTD D45 AX pneumatic dual chop saw.
I've used Pistorius and Frame Square.

Where I work now, we use Dewalt.
We have separate saws for metal and for wood.

Whatever saw you use, it's more about the blade than the saw.
You can use a cheaper saw, but don't use a cheaper blade.
I recommend Quinn Saw for blades.
We buy our blades from them and they do the sharpening as needed.
http://www.quinnsaw.com
Bill (triplechip) is a Grumbler.
 
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samcrimm

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So Neil your tell me you use a Dewalt from Lowes? But just get high quality blades. Which model and what do you have to do special in the set up of the Dewalt?
Thanks
Sam
 

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I know a lot of people use contractor grade chop saws "successfully" (exactly what that means, I don't know). But I have used many such for trim level work and find it hard to believe they are rugged enough to provide a consistent precise result that I would be satisfied with for making picture frames. I would far sooner choose a fixed double miter saw designed from the ground up to produce 45° cuts. Or, better yet - a chopper, if it will cut the profiles you anticipate cutting.
 

neilframer

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So Neil your tell me you use a Dewalt from Lowes? But just get high quality blades. Which model and what do you have to do special in the set up of the Dewalt?
Thanks
Sam

I'm not familiar with the Bosco but it looks kind of like a Pistorius when I Googled it.
As I mentioned, My favorite is the CTD D45AX double miter saw but the setup we have works very well.
Even a dual miter saw has to be tweaked to get the best cut and often the moldings have issues, warping etc. so the setup of any saw is important.

I'm not sure about the model number of our Dewalt saws, I'm home now and I could check it out tomorrow.
We have them set up for cutting frames with dust collecting vacuums attached.
They both have Phaedra measuring arms with stops, but the Phaedra measuring grids aren't made anymore.
There are other measuring grids available.

We also have a Barton electric miter sander that can clean up any cut if necessary, but it's not often necessary.
The Barton sander is also not made anymore but there are some around.

It can also depend on your volume as to what saw you want to use.
We are pretty high volume, but I've been cutting frames for 47 years so I know how to make things work.
I like choppers, too.
Just not for everything. (I have one for sale by the way...;))

I will emphasize that the blade can be more important than the saw.
(just don't buy a saw at Harbor Freight....:eek::rolleyes:)

Our shop has 21 out of 21 5-star reviews on Yelp and all 5 star reviews on Google.
The shop has received a number of 1st place awards from the PPFA nationally and locally.
The owner is on the national PPFA competition committee and education committee.
I would call that successful.
 
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ArtMechanics

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I second Neil on the CTD da45. Probably the favorite saw I've used too. But I think you were asking about contractor saws.

I started with the Hitachi c10fsb. When I did trim work I used all the brands. The most experienced guys all recommended the Hitachi. The Makita was similarly ranked in certain circles. Not a fan of DeWalt mitre saws here, but sure it could work.

The market has changed since I bought mine but one thing that made it special is that it's belt driven, and soft start. This reduces vibrations translating to smother cuts. It really does give amazing cuts when it's set up correctly. Build it into a bench, bolt it down, and don't move it once it's dialed in. I switched to a used double miter saw only to speed up production.

Regardless of brand I'd recommend a 10" saw that slides. Past 10" contractor saws will have more issues with blade deflection. A saw with a slider adds huge capacity. Spend for high end. Even the most fancy contractor saw (festool) is cheap compared to a double miter saw.

I couldn't get a measuring fence so I made one on illustrator and had a sign shop put it on a sticker.

Saw is over 10 years old and still kicking. For about 3 of those years it was getting run daily for many hours without a break. Boxes and boxes of moulding...

Hope that helps.
 

graysalchemy

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The problem with contractors miter saw is that the are not designed for the accuracy that we need as picture framers. By the nature of the beast as saw which is designed to swing left to right isn't going to be as accurate as one which was fixed in place in the factory, even if you use two of them. So really if you want a good cut you need a machine designed for the Job. In the UK here the Dogs Danglies is a Cassese 969, which is what I have. They have 14" blades with over 120 teeth and will cut day in day out at pinpoint accuracy, and in my opinion will definitely cut better than a morso (except mount slips which it cant handle).

The main downside is their expense. I have no idea what they are in the states but mine cost me £8500 + VAT new. A second hand 939 go for about £2-3000 in the uk. Though they are getting a bit old now and will need TLC. They also need a big compressor to run them and a big dust extractor.
photo_1483105928310.jpg

Seriously if you are buying a saw buy one that is designed for the job, ie a twin bladed mitre saw.
 

Jeff Rodier

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I would see if you can find a Frame Square saw. Mount it on a piece of plywood and casters so it can be rolled out of the way when no in use. Uses a 10" blade and will cut much wider and taller moulding than 12" double miter saws. It is set up to be used with standard electrical outlet and is the single most versatile saw in the industry. Perfect cuts with excellent clamping that won't harm the finishes and will cut a frame in about 2 minutes versus all of the problems associated with miter saws.

Using miter saws the ideal situation is to use 2 of them and measuring scales but most likely will want to add a disc sander. By the time you add all this up the price will be more than a used Frame Square. My Frame Square is about 40 years old and if you ever need to replace the motor you can buy one off the shelf at a large variety of part suppliers. You'll get perfect cuts every time and I would use a Quinn blade since the Frame Square blades are very loud and about 2 1/2 times the price.
 

IFGL

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The problem with contractors miter saw is that the are not designed for the accuracy that we need as picture framers. By the nature of the beast as saw which is designed to swing left to right isn't going to be as accurate as one which was fixed in place in the factory, even if you use two of them. So really if you want a good cut you need a machine designed for the Job. In the UK here the Dogs Danglies is a Cassese 969, which is what I have. They have 14" blades with over 120 teeth and will cut day in day out at pinpoint accuracy, and in my opinion will definitely cut better than a morso (except mount slips which it cant handle).

The main downside is their expense. I have no idea what they are in the states but mine cost me £8500 + VAT new. A second hand 939 go for about £2-3000 in the uk. Though they are getting a bit old now and will need TLC. They also need a big compressor to run them and a big dust extractor.
View attachment 26021

Seriously if you are buying a saw buy one that is designed for the job, ie a twin bladed mitre saw.
£8500 + VAT you say, I thought they were substantially more than that, I feel my purchasing hand twitching.

i don't know how you work in that mess Alistair.
 

graysalchemy

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£8500 + VAT you say, I thought they were substantially more than that, I feel my purchasing hand twitching.

i don't know how you work in that mess Alistair.

Neither Do I Darren i must go and tidy it up.

You need to speak to your mate Joe and see what deal you can get, though that was ordered pre Brexit, I fear that the cost of the euro may have pushed that up a bit now.
 

CB Art & Framing

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I have a CTD D20 for sale. it's a great saw and extremely accurate. Also allows for independent cutting of each miter to reduce wastage.
 

JWB9999999

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I also agree that the quality of the blades matters much more than the saw. The quality of the saw just can give you corners that are closer to a 45, and to some degree, will affect how much chipping you get on mouldings of different shapes. But bad blades will tear up anything. Don't go cheap on the blades.

You can do just fine with a Dewalt saw, depending on your market. In the shop that I bought 10 years ago, our main saw was indeed a Dewalt chop saw, and had been used by the shop for 7 years. You do have to do more sanding and more corner filling when you use a saw like that. So a couple of years after I bought my shop, I bought a used Brevetti Prisma double miter saw, which is now my main saw for cutting moulding. It gives a much better corner for mouldings, which in turns means less labor time spent "fixing" corners afterwards. Cutting also is quicker with the double miter. So I bought the Brevetti to improve our quality, but also to reduce labor time. I estimate that we cut our typical start-to-finish time for frame jobs by 10-20%, depending on the type of moulding. That's a big time savings for a busy frame shop.

Now, it is VERY important to understand your customers and what they expect. My customers are generally lower budget than most here in this forum. The quality that we were able to produce on the Dewalt was good enough to take us from a startup frame shop to the largest frameshop for 90 miles in only 7 years. The quality met my customers' expectations for what they wanted to pay. But what we were able to do with the Dewalt is not the kind of higher end frames that are common in some shops.
 

graysalchemy

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I also agree that the quality of the blades matters much more than the saw. The quality of the saw just can give you corners that are closer to a 45, and to some degree, will affect how much chipping you get on mouldings of different shapes.

Surely if you are professional your mitres SHOULD be 45 degrees no ifs and buts.

Larger blades with more teeth will always give a better cut as long as the blades are sharp, but it is the Saw and how it is set up which in the main defines the accuracy of the angle and maintaining that accuracy. Granted blades which are out of balance will also throw out a mitre.
 

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There are basically three types of saws used in the industry. IMO your choice would depend on what you do:

1. The single miter - offers the lowest cost frame cutting option in the industry, but for professional framing, you'll need a measuring and clamping system to give you the accuracy and repeat-ability needed. Lowest accuracy IMO, but still considered adequate by many retailers.

2. The rolling-tabletop saw - such as the Framesquare. Think of the meat slicer at the deli - the material to be cut (salami or frame moulding) is pushed through the rotating blade. This type of saw is well-suited high end framing because of its accuracy, and also its ability to cut very wide (up to 5-inch if I remember correctly) frames while using only a relatively small diameter (10-inch) blade. This saw generally requires open floor space, and I consider it to be a bit slower than the other styles of saws.

3. Double Miter - combines speed with the accuracy of twin blades positioned at a stationary 45-degree angle. The cons: expensive, some require 3-phase (industrial) electricity, and many use the more expensive 12-inch, or even 14-inch blades.

You may also want to consider a chopper. Although they can't cut metal frames, they offer some advantages over saw systems. Perhaps the biggest advantage is that choppers don't produce sawdust -- the mortal enemy of the picture framer. And because your leg provides the power, you get that Stairmaster workout as your framing.
 

JWB9999999

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Surely if you are professional your mitres SHOULD be 45 degrees no ifs and buts.

Should is right. "Is" is a different story. I'll definitely be happy for you to stop by and calibrate my Dewalt to a true 45 next time you swing through the states. :) I'd guess mine is about 1/2 degree out, which is as close as is possible for me to get it with the tools that I have available to me. That said, you can get cuts that are not 45 degrees for a variety of reasons, with number one being warped moulding. It's just a fact of life. Cheap mouldings like my customers prefer are often more prone to warping than more expensive mouldings. So, you should always get 45s, but reality means you don't.

And now for a more on-topic note: more teeth does not always equal a better blade; it depends on the application. I know that Quinn Saw often recommends using an 80 tooth blade for cutting moulding, though I use 100 tooth blades myself.
 

ArtMechanics

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The contractors saws are adjusted by the fence support. Loosen the fence support bolts and set 90 degrees. You get ultimate squareness using the 5 cut method to get your 90. But it's kind of hard on a chop saw. If you don't have that patience, cut something as wide as possible, with parallel edges ( like a rip off the table saw), in half and flip one board over. You should be able to see no gap in the cut when the edges are up against a ruler or other known flat surface. Adjust as necessary.

Once you set 90 the detents will be also set as well as possible. The quality placement of them depends on the quality of the saw. My Hitachi was very accurate. Never needed any sanding. And I got much praise from customers who switched to framing with me on my corners.

The length capacity on a frame square was a deal breaker for me. It's basically a table saw with a miter sled. I routinely cut length of 8' or longer. And sliding 13 footers on the sled requires too much hassle and extra room.

You'll have to prioritize what's important. Cost, space, environment, production. All of these cutting options give good joins when used within their limits.
 

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And now for a more on-topic note: more teeth does not always equal a better blade; it depends on the application. I know that Quinn Saw often recommends using an 80 tooth blade for cutting moulding, though I use 100 tooth blades myself.

Especially if you are cutting a lot of gessoed moulding.
 

samcrimm

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And I am still Listening and learning, and this has gotten interesting too. I would like to know more about the finer things with the box store saws, I have also been told a table saw with a sled would do a great job too.
I don't have a lot of volume as of now, and I am planning on that getting better, how much is the million dollar question. I have a bosco close by me, a little more money that I would want to spend right now and used, could need lots of work, but I can't help thinking of the future.
I have thought of a chop too.....that has limits I understand ( so do I) So advise is needed. And thanks a ton for all the input it really is great and I appreciate it.

Sam
 

ArtMechanics

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I really liked my 80 tooth 10" from Quinn. They only offered 100 in 12" when I got them for the pistorius. Would have rather had a little less.

Cabinet makers will tell you get a table saw because it can do everything accurately. But I find mitering long stock is a challenge on a sled. I feel folks really underestimate a good chop saw built into a proper bench.
 

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Cabinet makers will tell you get a table saw because it can do everything accurately.

I have made frames and I have made cabinets. Like making apples and oranges. The accuracy required to make cabinets is less than the accuracy required to make a frame that joins properly.
 

IFGL

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Holding the moulding still is a major part too, one of the reasons the cassese saw is so good is the pnematic clamps that hold the moulding in place, it's clamped from the top and from the side, in the 969 there's also a big lump of concrete to stop vibrations making a smoother cut, the down side is it weighs 3/4 of a tonne.

I can't comment on other saws as I have only used the cassese mine is the older 939 it's very fast about 7 seconds to clamp then cut both cuts on the mitre and very accurate, but as you saw (pun intended) from Alistairs photo it's a big lump of kit, heavy and won't go in every work shop, we had to have a builder take out our doors and door frames to get it in..
 

Dirk

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For what it's worth ... here are a novice frame-joiner's observations:
Wood moulding, whether solid or fingerjoint, is rarely fiddle-string straight.
Thus, the length of the fence/straightedge/guide bar will give a different angle when that length varies between machines. (Chop saw, table saw slider, dual miter saw, sander, v-nailer, Hoffman, vise, digital miter square.)
A full-length fence on the saw will yield something other than a perfect ninety degree corner in the v-nailer if there is crook or bow in the moulding because of the difference in the lengths of the fences.
The back/bottom of the moulding is rarely square to the side, so the angle will be different when one uses the back/bottom as the reference surface vs. the side.
Gesso slopped onto the back/bottom of the moulding makes it impossible to use that as a reference surface.
Mouldings vary in width. This is not necessarily a manufacturing flaw. Wood shrinks and swells in response to humidity, so variation in moisture content at time of manufacture will result in variable shrink/swell when the moulding reaches equilibrium after time in a warehouse. We measure cuts at the rabbet and expect the outside corners to match up, but if the width varies, the match won't be perfect.
Our little shop does mostly one-offs, so we buy lots of chops from distributors who have double miter saws that would cost more than half our gross annual sales. Some of the miters are less than perfect, and since measurement can be dicey, we sand them all. The single biggest revelation was recognizing we needed to remain consistent throughout the joining process with respect to which surface we used as our reference. Thus, especially on narrow mouldings, I rotate the sanding disc in the "wrong" direction, which forces the reference to the bottom. On tall mouldings, where I plan to use the tall fence on the Hoffman, the rotation is normal, putting force against the straightedge, as the outside of the moulding will be the reference on the Hoffman.
We've been happy with two fixed chop saws attached to a Miter Master fence (from Quality Saw) for cutting moulding from length. As with any chop saw system, the cutting force tends to pull the moulding against the vertical fence. If I plan to use the bottom/back as the reference surface, the cut will have to be modified at the sander. I've spent lots of time with straightedges and feeler gauges getting the equipment dialed in as close as possible, but it wasn't until I thought about the reference surfaces that the gappy corners started to improve.
 

IFGL

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For what it's worth ... here are a novice frame-joiner's observations:
Wood moulding, whether solid or fingerjoint, is rarely fiddle-string straight.
Thus, the length of the fence/straightedge/guide bar will give a different angle when that length varies between machines. (Chop saw, table saw slider, dual miter saw, sander, v-nailer, Hoffman, vise, digital miter square.)
A full-length fence on the saw will yield something other than a perfect ninety degree corner in the v-nailer if there is crook or bow in the moulding because of the difference in the lengths of the fences.
The back/bottom of the moulding is rarely square to the side, so the angle will be different when one uses the back/bottom as the reference surface vs. the side.
Gesso slopped onto the back/bottom of the moulding makes it impossible to use that as a reference surface.
Mouldings vary in width. This is not necessarily a manufacturing flaw. Wood shrinks and swells in response to humidity, so variation in moisture content at time of manufacture will result in variable shrink/swell when the moulding reaches equilibrium after time in a warehouse. We measure cuts at the rabbet and expect the outside corners to match up, but if the width varies, the match won't be perfect.
Our little shop does mostly one-offs, so we buy lots of chops from distributors who have double miter saws that would cost more than half our gross annual sales. Some of the miters are less than perfect, and since measurement can be dicey, we sand them all. The single biggest revelation was recognizing we needed to remain consistent throughout the joining process with respect to which surface we used as our reference. Thus, especially on narrow mouldings, I rotate the sanding disc in the "wrong" direction, which forces the reference to the bottom. On tall mouldings, where I plan to use the tall fence on the Hoffman, the rotation is normal, putting force against the straightedge, as the outside of the moulding will be the reference on the Hoffman.
We've been happy with two fixed chop saws attached to a Miter Master fence (from Quality Saw) for cutting moulding from length. As with any chop saw system, the cutting force tends to pull the moulding against the vertical fence. If I plan to use the bottom/back as the reference surface, the cut will have to be modified at the sander. I've spent lots of time with straightedges and feeler gauges getting the equipment dialed in as close as possible, but it wasn't until I thought about the reference surfaces that the gappy corners started to improve.
I think I would be changing my mouldings supplier if that's the kind of stuff you are getting, we do get twisted mouldings or inconsistent ones but it's rare, maybe one in a hundred sticks, if I get the problems that you mentioned we get a credit for it.
 

graysalchemy

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I agree with what Darren has said. You shouldn't put up with bad moulding and try and make do. Your angles should be spot on 45 degrees you shouldn't need to be trimming back with a sanding disk you will potentially produce errors. If I could afford or didn't have the space for a proper framers twin blade mitre saw then I would be using a morso which will give a perfectly acceptable joint on the majority of what you do (though I still maintain the Cassese Saw gives a far superior cut). The only thing you wont be able to cut is solid aluminium frames ( I don't on the saw as it would require a change of blades) so just buy them on chop.
 

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The thing about gesso on the back side was mostly with LJ #140652. The box we just got doesn't have it, so maybe they've fixed the problem, or maybe it varies that much? We rarely get anything twisted, most likely because, although we do get length, we buy mostly chops. Not saying this is what shops should do, as everyone is different, but that's what we do. We send back any bad stuff, but product quality control has declined so much in recent years that flawed frames arrive more often than before. Our frames were okay before, but sometimes had gaps, especially as he was learning on inherited equipment. Not that a customer would notice, but we didn't want any at all. Replacing that stuff, and his detective work, have resulted in super tight corners. There are plenty of framers who sand as a matter of course.

One thing I've come to appreciate with him is, he's able to see complex things, but sometimes, it's a simple fix that others would miss. For awhile, no matter what we did, there were still wee gaps on small frames. After checking and double-checking all equipment, he noticed that the (inherited) wooden fence on our saw set-up had worn slightly over the years. Barely any, but enough that a small length would tip just a bit in the cut. Replacing that with a metal fence fixed it.
 

Prospero

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I've posted this before but in case you haven't seen it....

shed13_007.jpg


I got to a stage where I was chopping wideish moulding - one in particular with an undercut back. The Morso handled it OK,
but it was time consuming and a lot of filling needed on the back where a chunk would detach. So I dreamed up this rig.
I had used a saw now and then. It was a cheapo chop saw that I was given.The angle was waaaay out and mostly I ended
up truing up the miters on the Morso. But I got to thinking that if I had two saws I could set one for each end and any
inaccuracies could be tweaked out by a bit of jiggling. It would need a solid permanent setup which I eventually sorted out.
I wanted DeWalts but couldn't source a UK based one that didn't have a compound slide. I figured the less moving bits the
more accurate. Eventually I went for the Makitas. These are Japanese made ones. Beware Chinese versions.
Anyway, I got a pair. Fixed them up and made a cunning measuring scale. The whole issue came in less than 500GBP.
Having two saws means no swinging the heads for each cut. Less wear and once it's set no disturbing the angles.

It has to be said that I was more than pleased with the results, but I do cut mainly plain wood or gesso-only mouldings.
Not sure how it would perform on finished mouldings. I do get the odd gap, but these vanish in the finishing process.
The angles were spot on straight out the box. An improvised clamping system would maybe improve things.
It doesn't chip out the backs of mouldings like the Morso. Having said that I swapped the supplied 24 tooth blades for
80 tooth ones. They weren't a particularly high-end brand but they were cheap and on special offer. I figured I would
give 'em a go and upgrade later. Been using them for 3 years and they've gone though 1000s of feet of big moulding
and never had a sharpen.

I haven't room for a big double miter rig. Or the cash for that matter. No denying one of those is the ideal, but if you
get one it would have to work hard to earn it's keep. :D

Hope that's food for thought. :rolleyes:
 

David Waldmann

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I figured the less moving bits the
more accurate.

Agreed!

They weren't a particularly high-end brand but they were cheap and on special offer. I figured I would
give 'em a go and upgrade later. Been using them for 3 years and they've gone though 1000s of feet of big moulding
and never had a sharpen.

Well if you're making, say, 500 foot X 500 foot frames, that's only what, one frame for 2000' (which is, technically, thousands)? unless my math is off, which it could well be, although few people have accused me of that in the past.

I haven't room for a big double miter rig. Or the cash for that matter.

I kinda doubt that. If you've got $$ for cats or fancy socks you can afford any saw you want.

Hope that's food for thought. :rolleyes:

Oh, yeah!
 

Prospero

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Hehehee. :D

I claim back all cat expenses. She is a Guard Cat so technically an employee so her running costs are deductible. :rolleyes:

The sockies are work clothes so all laundering costs likewise. Yes, they do get a wash now and then whether they need it or not. ;)


Another thing about the saws.... I do a lot of frames that have an extra thin bit in the inside. So I can cut both pieces at the same time. :D
 

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Turn those sockies inside out, and you can double the laundering interval.
 

DVieau2

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I use a Dewalt 10" single saw with a Phaedra measuring and clamping feed table. The whole setup was about a grand.

If I have a quantity project I can get into a rhythm and be pretty darn efficient. NO I don't have to swing the saw twice for every leg. Make the right cuts and then make the left cuts and you swing less.

I don't use the clamps unless I have a quantity project. I find it a pain to setup for every different mounding.
Sticky palm gloves usually gives me all the clamping power I need.

I cut a lot of metal and absolutely need a saw that switches blades easily.

I also have a Barton 12" sanding disc. I find the sander to be tool that produces the perfect corner. I consider the sander turns my $1000 setup into a $5000 set up.

I know there are some who cry fowl at the use of a sander but consider that I sometimes need it on chops from my suppliers who own the best saws made.

I would say that the blade along with the measuring and support system is more important that the make of the saw. I wore out a Milwaukee 10 inch and I thought it was a better tool than the Dewalt but the Dewalt works fine.
 

Joe B

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I have a couple of Frame Square Saws and for my sized shop it is absolutely perfect. Unfortunately the company is now out of business but these saws are built to last forever and don't seem to ever bread down - sort of like a Morso chopper which I also have. I use the Morso mostly because I do not get dust in my shop with one but for wider moulding or mouldings that chip out to bad with the chopper I use the saw. With the Frame Square Saw the measuring is dead on and I never have to sand. If you can pick up a used Frame Square Saw I do recommend that for the average sized frame shop.
 

graysalchemy

CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2
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Just seen a picture of one of those frame square mitre saws. So its a single blade with a right and left fence which you slide over the table. Obviously slower than a twin bladed saw, but to me they look very robust and thus should be accurate. Though I don't like the idea of an open blade like that, not something I would want to use nor would I want an employee to use. I have seen plenty of joiners and wood machinists with missng fingers but i haven't come across a picture framer with any missing digits yet.
 

graysalchemy

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The guy I bought my shop from was missing a thumb, and one of my sales reps cut half a finger off a few years ago, so it does happen. ;)

Well thats new to me though I don't think a morso would have much trouble in amputating a digit though I think it would be prety hard to un intesionally do it unless you keep your foot resting on he peddle when you put your fingers near the blade.
 

Joe B

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Can a Frame Square Saw also be used as a regular table saw?

It would be hard because of the measuring arms. I suppose if you took of the measuring arms it could be used for a straight but I don't know if it would be worth it because you would also have to figure out some way of attaching a fence.
 

Joe B

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Though I don't like the idea of an open blade like that, not something I would want to use nor would I want an employee to use.
That shouldn't be a problem. Both of mine has a guard on them and unless a person has an IQ of less than 10 or if someone intentionally wanted see gushing blood:eek:it would be pretty hard to remove body parts with either one of my saws.:rolleyes:
 

graysalchemy

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I am used to my cassese which has a hood and two hand button operation so even if you had you hands near it you wouldn't be able to initiate a stroke. Also you can't open the hood with it switch on either.

Thats the EU for you:):)
 

Prospero

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That shouldn't be a problem. Both of mine has a guard on them and unless a person has an IQ of less than 10 or if someone intentionally wanted see gushing blood:eek:it would be pretty hard to remove body parts with either one of my saws.:rolleyes:

Where I used to work back in the '70s there were lots of injection moulding machines.

These machines were huge and basically they held two halves of an equally huge mould together
while molten plastic was pushed into it. The hydraulic ram pressed at over 100 tons, but there was
a sliding guard on the front which prevented the mould from closing when it was slid back.
Right, I think we all know where this is going. :confused:

At that time there was a labor shortage in the UK. All sorts of eejits got recruited. One night shift
one of said eejits was running one of the machines. The machines were mostly automatic. Mould
closed - plastic shot in - mould opened - moulded item dropped out , went down a chute into a box - repeat.
But occasionally one would 'hang up' and the operator had to slide back the guard and poke it with a stick.
Not this lad. He thought it would be good to reach over the top (not easy to do) and put his hand in.
You can guess the rest although by sheer good luck it wasn't as bad as it might as been.
The machines were in the process of being being modified so that the ram had a sensor which would
open it if it closed with any undue resistance. A bit like the window on a car. This was to protect the mould
if anything, not a safety feature. If someone left a pair of pliers inside then it would be expensive.
As it happened that machine had been modded just the previous day. The lad got a nasty nip but no permanent damage.

So never underestimate the sheer stupidity that some people are capable of. Especially when operating heavy machinery. :p
 

IFGL

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.
Where I used to work back in the '70s there were lots of injection moulding machines.

These machines were huge and basically they held two halves of an equally huge mould together
while molten plastic was pushed into it. The hydraulic ram pressed at over 100 tons, but there was
a sliding guard on the front which prevented the mould from closing when it was slid back.
Right, I think we all know where this is going. :confused:

At that time there was a labor shortage in the UK. All sorts of eejits got recruited. One night shift
one of said eejits was running one of the machines. The machines were mostly automatic. Mould
closed - plastic shot in - mould opened - moulded item dropped out , went down a chute into a box - repeat.
But occasionally one would 'hang up' and the operator had to slide back the guard and poke it with a stick.
Not this lad. He thought it would be good to reach over the top (not easy to do) and put his hand in.
You can guess the rest although by sheer good luck it wasn't as bad as it might as been.
The machines were in the process of being being modified so that the ram had a sensor which would
open it if it closed with any undue resistance. A bit like the window on a car. This was to protect the mould
if anything, not a safety feature. If someone left a pair of pliers inside then it would be expensive.
As it happened that machine had been modded just the previous day. The lad got a nasty nip but no permanent damage.

So never underestimate the sheer stupidity that some people are capable of. Especially when operating heavy machinery. :p
That was an anticlimax Peter, I expected severed limbs, blood, snot the works.
 

JWB9999999

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Ok, I'll give you a little blood. In my shop, it's the v-nailer that's out to get you. Smashed one employees finger open like a tomato, and it still cracks open every year when it gets too dry. Another employee broke her thumb by putting it behind the foward-sliding clamp; when she took her foot off the action pedal, it slid back and broke it like it was nothing. And then there is me. I was in a hurry, put my hand up on a moulding to hold it in place, with my thumb at the bottom, and hit the foot pedal; sent the clamping spike right through my thumbnail and out the other side of my thumb, which also split open like a tomato as it wasn't used to a 1/4" spike being shoved through it. And it broke it, just for good measure. :D It was about as much fun as it sounds like.

But don't underestimate those enclosed double miter saws. You think it's hard to hurt yourself on one, but that's how my rep lost half a finger. He was cutting moulding, and a piece was falling back into the interior of the saw, so he reached in to grab the falling moulding, right through the protective guards on the side, and... now has 1/2 of a finger less than before.
 

IFGL

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That's more like it, I once got a paper cut :)

It would be hard to reach in here, you have to have both hands on the buttons to operate that saw, let them go and the blades retract.

rps20170210_183843.jpg
 

graysalchemy

CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2
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Messages
243
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Salford UK
Glad to see you use the top of yours for offcuts Darren. They should have made them with a sloping top to stop that.
 

Gary Tanner

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I use a Milwaukee 12" compound slider running a Diablo 100 tooth blade from Home Depot. I have no clamping system other than my hands, and no measuring devices other than a ruler and a pencil. I do make my own shadow box frames from locally sourced (southern VT) rough-cut hardwood - mostly cherry and oak. I only make shadow boxes as commissions from the fly fishing community. My corners never need filler (which would never work as my frames are stained and satin finished). I think they look ok. I am by no means a production shop. I'm just saying a pretty darn good, on the money 45 degree miter is possible on carpentry-level equipment.
Gary
7Kdy70c.jpg
 
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