I have used many different saws and choppers.didn't want to hijack the other miter saw post.
So will a dewalt cut good enough for picture framing?
I was looking at a used Bosco 12" double mitre saw, its big and well its big.
So Neil your tell me you use a Dewalt from Lowes? But just get high quality blades. Which model and what do you have to do special in the set up of the Dewalt?
£8500 + VAT you say, I thought they were substantially more than that, I feel my purchasing hand twitching.The problem with contractors miter saw is that the are not designed for the accuracy that we need as picture framers. By the nature of the beast as saw which is designed to swing left to right isn't going to be as accurate as one which was fixed in place in the factory, even if you use two of them. So really if you want a good cut you need a machine designed for the Job. In the UK here the Dogs Danglies is a Cassese 969, which is what I have. They have 14" blades with over 120 teeth and will cut day in day out at pinpoint accuracy, and in my opinion will definitely cut better than a morso (except mount slips which it cant handle).
The main downside is their expense. I have no idea what they are in the states but mine cost me £8500 + VAT new. A second hand 939 go for about £2-3000 in the uk. Though they are getting a bit old now and will need TLC. They also need a big compressor to run them and a big dust extractor.
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Seriously if you are buying a saw buy one that is designed for the job, ie a twin bladed mitre saw.
£8500 + VAT you say, I thought they were substantially more than that, I feel my purchasing hand twitching.
i don't know how you work in that mess Alistair.
I also agree that the quality of the blades matters much more than the saw. The quality of the saw just can give you corners that are closer to a 45, and to some degree, will affect how much chipping you get on mouldings of different shapes.
Surely if you are professional your mitres SHOULD be 45 degrees no ifs and buts.
And now for a more on-topic note: more teeth does not always equal a better blade; it depends on the application. I know that Quinn Saw often recommends using an 80 tooth blade for cutting moulding, though I use 100 tooth blades myself.
Cabinet makers will tell you get a table saw because it can do everything accurately.
I think I would be changing my mouldings supplier if that's the kind of stuff you are getting, we do get twisted mouldings or inconsistent ones but it's rare, maybe one in a hundred sticks, if I get the problems that you mentioned we get a credit for it.For what it's worth ... here are a novice frame-joiner's observations:
Wood moulding, whether solid or fingerjoint, is rarely fiddle-string straight.
Thus, the length of the fence/straightedge/guide bar will give a different angle when that length varies between machines. (Chop saw, table saw slider, dual miter saw, sander, v-nailer, Hoffman, vise, digital miter square.)
A full-length fence on the saw will yield something other than a perfect ninety degree corner in the v-nailer if there is crook or bow in the moulding because of the difference in the lengths of the fences.
The back/bottom of the moulding is rarely square to the side, so the angle will be different when one uses the back/bottom as the reference surface vs. the side.
Gesso slopped onto the back/bottom of the moulding makes it impossible to use that as a reference surface.
Mouldings vary in width. This is not necessarily a manufacturing flaw. Wood shrinks and swells in response to humidity, so variation in moisture content at time of manufacture will result in variable shrink/swell when the moulding reaches equilibrium after time in a warehouse. We measure cuts at the rabbet and expect the outside corners to match up, but if the width varies, the match won't be perfect.
Our little shop does mostly one-offs, so we buy lots of chops from distributors who have double miter saws that would cost more than half our gross annual sales. Some of the miters are less than perfect, and since measurement can be dicey, we sand them all. The single biggest revelation was recognizing we needed to remain consistent throughout the joining process with respect to which surface we used as our reference. Thus, especially on narrow mouldings, I rotate the sanding disc in the "wrong" direction, which forces the reference to the bottom. On tall mouldings, where I plan to use the tall fence on the Hoffman, the rotation is normal, putting force against the straightedge, as the outside of the moulding will be the reference on the Hoffman.
We've been happy with two fixed chop saws attached to a Miter Master fence (from Quality Saw) for cutting moulding from length. As with any chop saw system, the cutting force tends to pull the moulding against the vertical fence. If I plan to use the bottom/back as the reference surface, the cut will have to be modified at the sander. I've spent lots of time with straightedges and feeler gauges getting the equipment dialed in as close as possible, but it wasn't until I thought about the reference surfaces that the gappy corners started to improve.
I figured the less moving bits the
They weren't a particularly high-end brand but they were cheap and on special offer. I figured I would
give 'em a go and upgrade later. Been using them for 3 years and they've gone though 1000s of feet of big moulding
and never had a sharpen.
I haven't room for a big double miter rig. Or the cash for that matter.
Hope that's food for thought.
I have seen plenty of joiners and wood machinists with missng fingers but i haven't come across a picture framer with any missing digits yet.
The guy I bought my shop from was missing a thumb, and one of my sales reps cut half a finger off a few years ago, so it does happen.
Can a Frame Square Saw also be used as a regular table saw?
That shouldn't be a problem. Both of mine has a guard on them and unless a person has an IQ of less than 10 or if someone intentionally wanted see gushing bloodit would be pretty hard to remove body parts with either one of my saws.Though I don't like the idea of an open blade like that, not something I would want to use nor would I want an employee to use.
That shouldn't be a problem. Both of mine has a guard on them and unless a person has an IQ of less than 10 or if someone intentionally wanted see gushing bloodit would be pretty hard to remove body parts with either one of my saws.
That was an anticlimax Peter, I expected severed limbs, blood, snot the works.Where I used to work back in the '70s there were lots of injection moulding machines.
These machines were huge and basically they held two halves of an equally huge mould together
while molten plastic was pushed into it. The hydraulic ram pressed at over 100 tons, but there was
a sliding guard on the front which prevented the mould from closing when it was slid back.
Right, I think we all know where this is going.
At that time there was a labor shortage in the UK. All sorts of eejits got recruited. One night shift
one of said eejits was running one of the machines. The machines were mostly automatic. Mould
closed - plastic shot in - mould opened - moulded item dropped out , went down a chute into a box - repeat.
But occasionally one would 'hang up' and the operator had to slide back the guard and poke it with a stick.
Not this lad. He thought it would be good to reach over the top (not easy to do) and put his hand in.
You can guess the rest although by sheer good luck it wasn't as bad as it might as been.
The machines were in the process of being being modified so that the ram had a sensor which would
open it if it closed with any undue resistance. A bit like the window on a car. This was to protect the mould
if anything, not a safety feature. If someone left a pair of pliers inside then it would be expensive.
As it happened that machine had been modded just the previous day. The lad got a nasty nip but no permanent damage.
So never underestimate the sheer stupidity that some people are capable of. Especially when operating heavy machinery.