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Vermont Hardwoods solid wood picture frame molding

Where is my mistake

lightningmcnulty

True Grumbler
Joined
Feb 18, 2012
Messages
50
Hey guys

Ive just started using my newly acquired combination press, this is my first time with heat/vacuum mounting and I have a question.

I got 2 pieces of release board with the press, one of them is older and a bit messy so I put it on the bottom below the mounting substrate the other is cleaner so I put it on the top, when I was testing for the first time I used the old board, I rolled the glue (vacuglue 300) onto my foam board then I put the art on top and pressed/heated it, all went well accept the glue stuck the foam to the release board, Clearly it doesn't release as well as i'd thought.

for the second test I did the same but carefully wiped the excess off around the edges of the art, this worked great accept a little glue was left on the release board that I removed with adhesive release, clearly i'm still doing something wrong, do you guys use release paper to protect your release board? this seems crazy but who knows at this point.

The supplier told me that vacuglue 300 can glue anything including photos and that I should use it a 150 degrees for 5 minutes, is that right?

thanks for your help

Kim
 

tedh

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Joined
Nov 7, 2005
Messages
11,670
Are you mounting a poster to foamcore? If so, why are you not using Trimount tissue? What kind of press do you have? A Hot Press?
 

lightningmcnulty

True Grumbler
Joined
Feb 18, 2012
Messages
50
The one that i'm doing right now is photo paper to foam core, I understand that mounting tissue is an old method and that roller glue is preferred now because its less likely to bubble the art.

If this is wrong let me know


I have a vacuseal hot/cold press

thanks

Kim
 

wpfay

Angry Badger
Forum Support Team
Forum Donor
Joined
Sep 1, 2000
Messages
10,764
You have so many better options with a heated vacuum press. Dry mount tissues and film and foamboards already coated in heat activated adhesives are all much easier than the method you are trying.

it would be interesting to know where you are getting your information. I gave up using Vacuglue about the same time I gave up spray adhesive, some 25 years ago.
 

CB Art & Framing

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Joined
Feb 20, 2007
Messages
2,120
I think you are confusing a combination heat/vacuum press with a cold roller.
What it sounds like you are doing is 'wet' mounting. Typically you would not use heat.
To avoid glue leakage you would have to mask of the exact image size and roll glue on to substrate (a little tricky).
 
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tedh

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Joined
Nov 7, 2005
Messages
11,670
There are a really cool series of videos on Youtube by Drytac that even I learned from. Spend an hour or two picking up some solid information. It'll speed up your familiarization, and save some costly mistakes. And, of course, keep asking questions here.
 

lightningmcnulty

True Grumbler
Joined
Feb 18, 2012
Messages
50
I heard through the grape vine that tissue mount was old school but could be misinformation.

I scoured youtube and didn't find much, I will definitely look up the drytac videos tonight.

When you mount with the heat activated boards and tissue, do you just cut them exactly to the size of the art or is the release board good with these types of product?

thanks

Kim
 

lightningmcnulty

True Grumbler
Joined
Feb 18, 2012
Messages
50
I think your correct with the 'wet mount' the place that I've seen it done they have a machine that applies the glue to the board then they put it into the press but I don't know if they use heat, maybe its not needed, with the tests I've done it is working well even though its not the right way of doing it.

Thanks

Kim
 

neilframer

PFG, Picture Framing God
Forum Donor
Joined
Jan 27, 2010
Messages
8,035
You have so many better options with a heated vacuum press. Dry mount tissues and film and foamboards already coated in heat activated adhesives are all much easier than the method you are trying.

it would be interesting to know where you are getting your information. I gave up using Vacuglue about the same time I gave up spray adhesive, some 25 years ago.
:thumbsup:

There have been other threads with info on dry mounting techniques recently.
Gilman MountCor is a new product that mounts at 130 degrees and the board is similar to Gator board.
The MountCor has the adhesive coating and it mounts in 30 seconds in a mechanical press and at 2 minutes in a heat/vacuum press.
Chris Paschke and Rob Markoff both recommend it and I recommend it as well.
I've mounted about 50 pieces in the last week with it with excellent results.

We have used Kool Tack and Speed Mount previously, but the MountCor works very well.
Each MountCor board comes with it's own release sheet.

It seems that you may need to take a class or talk to Chris Paschke or read some of her info in PFM (Picture Framing Magazine).
She is the mounting Guru and has been excellent at passing along info to framers.
I have no idea why you are using a wet mount technique with a heat/vacuum press, but what do I know?
I've only been framing for 45 years. :cool:
 

lightningmcnulty

True Grumbler
Joined
Feb 18, 2012
Messages
50
Ok great I will look into her.

I did take a couple of classes but few of them covered much in the way of mounting and even when they did it was just the individual's opinion, the shop that gave me this technique has been around an awfully long time and are a landmark in the industry here, there are 100's of years of experience between those walls but people get stuck in their ways.

I also had an issue with a piece a while ago before I was doing production and I took it to a specialist who make most of their money from printing and mounting very large art, they also told me that mounting tissue was old fashioned but I think what they neglected to mention and what I misconstrued is that it has been replaced with boards that have adhesive backs.

i'm going to call my supplier Monday and get some of the mountcor, from what you guys are saying it seems like it would be a much easier product to use anyway so i'm excited to try it!

thanks everyone

Kim
 
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Rob Markoff

PFG, Picture Framing God
Joined
Mar 8, 1999
Messages
5,190
Wet mounting is a lost art. I usually never use heat. As others have pointed put, it is very difficult to apply glue to a specific area- and when you try to control the perimeter adhesive, it is often too thick or too thin.

I usually apply adhesive at least an inch past what I am mounting and confirm that it is an even, uniform layer. After applying what is being mounted, I use adding machine paper (comes in rolls 2 - 2-1/2" wide) and apply it all around the perimeter over the adhesive, then use my roller to smooth out the piece before mounting. I cover the piece with a release board and draw a vacuum.

If you are getting so much squeeze out that it is getting on the release board, you may be applying too much adhesive. What are you using to apply the glue with? Are you using a smooth, flat surface like a piece of glass to load your roller? You need to have an even, uniform application of glue which cannot be achieved if one pours the glue onto the board and then tries to spread it out. Many people apply too much adhesive using this method. I pour the glue onto a piece of glass to scrap of Coroplast and load my roller that way, being sure it is evenly coated, then apply to the substrate. I also use YES! Paste for the majority of wet mounts. I did a 48 x 72 piece yesterday.

Nonetheless, mounting substrates with the adhesive already applied, especially like the new Gilman Mountcor which mounts at 130 degrees for a 2 minute dwell time are as state of the art as one can get.
 

lightningmcnulty

True Grumbler
Joined
Feb 18, 2012
Messages
50
Its not so much a problem that the glue is squeezing out its just that I didn't know i'd have to use release paper as well.

Whats the price of the mountcor per sheet, i'm quite excited to use it because it seems like it would be much easier and cleaner!

thanks

Kim
 

CB Art & Framing

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Joined
Feb 20, 2007
Messages
2,120
"Wet" mounting is appropriate for:-
- Items that may not fit in your press, like the example rob mentioned above
- Photos, prints that you determine may be damaged by heat (although lower temperature boards available today make this less of an issue).
 

AnointedHandsFraming

Grumbler in Training
Joined
Jan 19, 2011
Messages
7
Hello to all

I have used speed mount for years and have never experienced any "bubbling" ever.
I have never had a problem with anything sticking to my release board. Maybe you should consider replacing your release board or using release paper if you suspect that your boards are no longer serviceable. Hope all works out for you!
 
Vermont Hardwoods solid wood picture frame molding

tedh

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Joined
Nov 7, 2005
Messages
11,670
In all my years of using the Hot Press, I've never used a release board, only release paper, and only when not laminating. If I'm laminating, I use a foam blanket. As a matter of fact, a release board will block the heat necessary to activate the adhesives. Am I right on this?
 

neilframer

PFG, Picture Framing God
Forum Donor
Joined
Jan 27, 2010
Messages
8,035
In all my years of using the Hot Press, I've never used a release board, only release paper, and only when not laminating. If I'm laminating, I use a foam blanket. As a matter of fact, a release board will block the heat necessary to activate the adhesives. Am I right on this?
The release board will not really block the heat.
Believe me, I have used all kinds of release papers, etc.
Sometimes with the release papers, silicone,etc, you get wrinkles and then the wrinkles get transferred to the item being mounted.

Using a release board makes it easier to move things in and out of the press and you might need to give the mounted items a little more time for the heat to get through the release board but it works fine.

Now using Gilman MountCor which mounts at 130 degrees and each sheet comes with a release sheet (we still use a release board over the top), we have had NO problems with any of the mounting in our heat/vacuum press.
I'm using 2 minutes in the press and it works great.
 

tedh

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Joined
Nov 7, 2005
Messages
11,670
Never knew that. If I do indeed have problems, I'll look into a release board.
 

treeves

CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2
Joined
Dec 15, 2004
Messages
218
been using a Bienfang laminate in my vacuum press for years, works great, I use the foam with a release board on top of the foam that was heated up with the press to about 210-215 degrees, have never messed one up and always come out just perfect, hard to tell the laminated print from the real canvas, framed it just as I would a canvas. I use the canvas striated laminate to achieve the canvas look....
 
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framah

PFG, Picture Framing God
Joined
Mar 15, 2001
Messages
8,811
Naaaaah!!!! Why start now???!!! :thumbsup: :beer:
 
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