Where did you get your framing education?

Create a Post
V

Vic Grand

True Grumbler
Joined
Jul 7, 2001
Posts
50
Loc
Richmond, VA USA
In reference to one of the other posts, PPFA has found that there is over a significant ratio of members taking education over non-members. This was no means a scientific study, but with enough data to make me wonder why this would be true.

We've all bantered about PPFA's role in the industry, and I am curious to know how much importance you place on education(especially non-members of PPFA).

Do you see it as a component for success in your shop. Your employees success? Do you think customers care about how much you know?

And where do you (or have you) turned for education - the internet (including TFG), formal classes, chapter seminars/workshops, your suppliers, frame schools, trade publications, or where?

Thanks for your response.
Vic Grand - PPFA
 
OK I'll start .I first went to a local University and got the basics then I went to Charles and Herb carithers in Jackson, Mississippi for a week long course. I then attended a lot of seminars at a needle work guild in Charlotte while availing my self of all the courses offered by my Local chapter. I also went to the national show in Sans Franciso and New Orleans and then went to ABC shows in Atlanta and the PFM show in Vegas . I took as many classes as i could at every show I went to for over 13yrs. and still am looking for and atteneding more.I now consider this forum and the OLEX a very good source of education.
I haven't reached a point where I can't be taught anything new and don't expect to. I think I can and have learned something even from classes that I thought weren't well taught.
In my honest opinion the shows offer a good exposure to new products but there is only so much I have space for and cash to buy with. But when I don't know the latest and greatest techniques all this equipment won't get the job done. How many of us have accuired CMCs and now are begging for Classes on how to do more with them.
Charles Buddy Drago CPF(cm)

[This message has been edited by BUDDY (edited July 30, 2001).]
 
I took a basic framing course which was a 5 day event. I was the only one in the class so I got a lot of extra stuff. In 8 years I have learned from the events at the Atlanta Show. I read the trade magazines. I try to get the new books and other materials at the show. This forum and the HHer's have been an important source of education. I find I learn something new pretty often and I plan to keep learning and growing in knowledge. I do know I have customers who know I am trained well in my art and people will say you are the expert when they bring their article to be framed. I do know the knowledge I have and continue to gain is beneficial in the growth of my business. I read and study any materials PPFA sends to me as well. I have said this before and will say again. We will all improve our business in all ways if we will stay in touch with as many framers as possible. Communication among us is a great tool.

------------------
Gail Bridges
Kimacy Frame Shop
Tallapoosa, Georgia
kimacyfr@bellsouth.net
 
Framing is not rocket science. Having said this, I will say that I learn something new in picture framing every day. It does take common sense, visual and hand skills, talent, a creative way of seeing and thinking, and being able to communicate and work with customers.

I have a degree in fine arts. When I was in art school in the early seventies, pebble mat board was de rigeur, as was masking tape and rubber cement. Framing was accomplished with wood lathe strips or aluminum counter top strips. We've come a long way. This is from a former art student's perspective. I wonder what museums were doing at the time. I remember going to the Philadelphia Museum of Art, and in order to view a Van Gogh drawing, you had to lift a cloth to see it. I guess the cloth was protecting the ink from fading. Imagine touching a framed Van Gogh today!

I did come out of art school with an appreciation of 100% cotton rag paper and other good quality art supplies, an overview of art history, and hopefully some good taste.

Five and a half years ago I started working in the frame shop where I am currently working . Much of what I learned about framing I have learned on the job. In the shop, we all learn from each other, and we try to improve our skills all the time. Much information has come from the trade magazines (PFM and Decor). I learn things from frame company reps, visiting other frame shops, and going to museums. Most of all, these days, I learn from the Grumble. Thanks everyone! I've been to a few (very few) workshops. One featuring Brian Wolf was provided by one of our suppliers. I've been to a few meetings of the Ohio PPFA, although I am not a member.

I don't make a lot of money as a picture framer and really can't afford to go to the shows or classes or join PPFA, so I glean information anywhere I can.

This only addresses the visual side of framing. The business side is something altogether different. All the classes in the world wouldn't help me in that area!
 
My shop was not a member of PPFA for many years -- it is a long story that I decided I'd save for another subject someday.....

Most of my framing education has come from reading and then applying and practicing. I read the books that came with our shop and then bought some more. I also read every article in Decor (and back issues as well) for a time. Framers Answer Books are STILL the best--tho some info is not current.

I've picked up tips from other framers, employees, things I'd seen other framers do (like when something was in for repair or re-do). Much of the old stuff I saw was not lacking in technique--just lousy materials. (Masking tape & cardboard were instantly not allowed in the shop---a bit before that was the fashion.) I also learned from my sales reps! (those were the days when one of my reps would come in and clean and align my mat cutter for me.)

Occasionally I would sponsor an employee for a class at one of our local suppliers -- and much less occasionally they would share something they learned.

I have a more business background than art and grew up with a hammer at hand and woodworking tools around. I even assisted my Dad with his summer custom woodworking jobs & expert quality handyman work---lifting and handing him tools! Being a girl, I didn't get to take shop (back in the old days), but I watched many a tool in use and projects get completed. I absorbed some knowledge and troubleshooting ability due to this.

After a few years in the business and feeling like we'd seen most common framing challenges the avid reading slowed down. Decor became uninteresting or unrealistic much of the time. As a mag has to gear to all education levels the articles would be too beginner (seemed I knew more than the author) or crazed into the creativity of it all, way underpriced and unpractical. PFM sparked interest again -- sometimes. I also assigned my main designer to reading the mags and "let it slide" myself, too often.

My interest in framing education skyrocketed after I re-joined PPFA last year. I wanted to see what educational resources you had on line -- for reference -- and ended up on the exchange. This was an eye opening experience and I spent the next several months at night reading archives on a multitude of subjects. (Tyvek -- what the heck is that?) This was very rewarding --- for one, the multitude of things I had been doing right, learned I had come to the same conclusion as others, and the ones I needed improvement on. Plus, with the conservators and some other experts around I was able to get a greater depth of knowledge and understanding in some areas. I find that discussions about a technical point are much more enlightening than "don't use silicone", for example.

I later joined the Grumble and have also enjoyed, learned & contributed on many occasions.

Due to these forums I am much less likely to "give" the shop away, I've created business relationships (& friendships) that make us both money (!), I have a POS system, I KNOW I am much more confident in certain areas---and a bit more competent too (he he). I've turned a profit this year AND made up for back bills....working more and enjoying it more, too.

IMHO PPFA pushes education hard and that's why it's members are more interested in it. It has become what PPFA members do. It may also "draw" those that are inclined toward the social aspects of trade shows as well as a continued eagerness to learn the craft or latest gadget.

"Grown-ups" don't want to go to school -- but they do like toys. When learning a technique is a pleasure than "education" is more attractive. I'm sure that you will see that those that take classes -- come back and take more. Plus, after being an "ear" for our customers we framers like to gab, grumble and brag of our horror stories -- and what better place to meet people than a course. (or the forums)

Enough!!!
 
We started out as a large (independent) Arts and Crafts store, and we taught classes on how to use the products we carried. As such, we learned how to use many of the products used in imbelishing, and repair.

When we went in to framing, we sent two people to another frame shop for training, then they came back and taught us. We were also members of PPFA, and bought most of the framing books that were available. I have read all those books, and I look up information on the internet all the time. I also have been fortunate to be a member of the Grumble, as I have been introduced to some very informative people.

I have taken classes at PPFA conventions, and at Larson Juhl's Frame Fest. My salesmen have been very helpful through the years.

(As for the classes, you always have to remember that they are being taught by people, not machines. I have been known to get wrong information in trade sponsored
classes.)

As an ex is a has been, and a spurt a drip under pressure, I hope to always be a student.

------------------
Sue May :)
"I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous!"
 
I think education has definitely contributed to the success of my shop and that many of my customers come to me because of it. Would you want to trust an important project to a professional who hadn't kept up with changes in the industry? I learned the basics from the shop's previous owner, more when I took my CPF, and continue to learn from every source possible: trade magazines, online exchanges, state association meetings, books, etc. Some things are better learned hands on, some you can pick up by reading. It's all valuable.

------------------
Anne LeBouton
 
I consider myself self-taught. I have learned through trial and error, reading and studying, and applying what I have learned. If you have the proper equipment, I don't think framing is all that difficult. What I think is hard to do well, and I think can be taught only to a limited degree, is color and design. I have seen good framers who cannot design a project, and good designers who cannot frame. I have been a CPF from early on. One thing I have learned is that people outside the industry really don't care about the designation. If someone wants to become a CPF, it should be for their own satisfaction, not because they think the general public will care or that it will garnish them more sales.
 
The business was started by my parents. They were not so interested in making a living at it and as it grew they became less interested in spending the time keeping it going.
I worked with them a bit, but my education started in a small shop in Washington DC that dealt in Islamic antiquities. The owner was a respected expert in the field and was often out of town on buying trips. I was left to my own devices, and found that the conservators at the Smithsonian were very helpful in steering me in my efforts. I got out of the business for a couple of years and then was offered the opportunity to buy the family business. Like Pam, I learned a lot as I went along. I had a good background in woodworking and took a class from Bob Hendrickson in mat cutting. My interest in preservation framing grew with the industry's and I learned from trade mags and other reading material. I have a degree in art, and was doing design work throughout college. The business aspect was/is the toughest for me, and I find this forum most helpful. I will be taking my first seminars in Atlanta this fall. I'm probably too far gone to retrain for another career so I guess I'll just try to make the best of this one.
 
Started out with 5 year apprenticing in fine lithographic printing with one of the leading print companies in Dublin.
After a short spell selling printing moved into the sales of scientific and test equipment for about 20 years.
Took some time out to retrench and was invited to set up the sales/marketing for a framing business, put the business proposal to owner and he was kinda surprised that I would like to get paid for the work I was going to do, needles to say that relationship went nowhere.
I then got curious about the whole process of framing and collected and read anything I could about picture framing, boy was that a hard job in Ireland.
Took a short course on framing at this stage where I found I was more informed than the instructor, though my hands on experience was virtually nil at that time.
Attended the framing show at Birmingham England and a Framing show in New York City.
Purchased some framing equipment and tried to go the high street route which proved to be a non runner (approx 50+% of framing is homebased/backyard in Ireland) the lack of success was mainly due to landlord problems they were unwilling to provide leases so I told them to take a hike this is a problem for small business in Ireland.
I then purchased the only business which specializes in suppling glass to picture framers in Ireland, I will have disposed of this business by the end of this month after growing it 150% it is just to physical demanding for someone of my age.
I now live in a house which has by Irish standers quite a large garden, I have put in a studio which I'm framing from, I'm the only framer in this area of Ireland which has one of the largest concentration of artists.
The big shock I have had is after finding THE GRUMBLE how little I know about quality framing and belive me I thought I was on top of it, having read everything I could get my hands on and working with a framer with over 20 years experience.
As some of you may have read on another thread I'm now rewriting my business plan with the view to relaunching the business in a few years, I will keep what I have ticking over for the time been.
With respect to education I hope I never stop learning and with reference to framing I will keep educating my self both on the process of framing and the business side.
I subscribe to a few framing journals but without a shadow of doubt the internet has proven the greatest educator asides from my own mistakes and successes.

Dermot
ON THE EDGE Picture Framing

P.S. I cannot see any great advantage in being a member of the PPFA been based in Ireland, though I may change my mind after my trip to Atlanta.
 
I've been framing full time for 8 years after taking the Larson course. I grab as many seminars and courses as possible but the PPFA isn't too active in Canada and none of the major show producers can make up their minds as to support the Canadian market or not (eg: Decor cancelling Toronto show) so formal opportunities to improve myself are few and far between.

Travelling to Atlanta or New York is a MAJOR expense, especially when you factor in the exchange rate on the dollar, the 2 or 3 grand it would cost me to go I'm afraid is better served by in advertizing (yes... it's my decision, but it sure would be nice to go) so education on that front is out.

I've learned alot on The Grumble, it's a great resource and a nice place to chat.

My best resource though is the framers in the group I belong to. Five years ago we (my wife and I) joined the Framing and Art Centre franchise in Canada. Probably the best business decision we ever made.

My customers rely on me to give them the right answers and I try to educate them as much as I can. Our knowlege and design come through in every sample we have on the wall. Education is very important. I wish I could get more in my area, or at least within 300 miles.

[This message has been edited by ChrisW (edited August 01, 2001).]
 
I started learning rudimentary framing skills when my boyfriend (now my fiance) opened his own shop three years ago. He was CPF certified by the shop he'd worked at before he opened his own, and he has taught me a great deal. (His shop did not work out but we still have all his equipment. *chuckle* That C&H oversize mat cutter makes a beautiful centerpiece in our dining room.)

Since then I have learned from co-workers in the shop I'm working at now, from mistakes I've seen come through the shop, and from my own hands-on experience. I also visit the on-line resources I have found, including TG.
smile.gif


I think education is as important to the client as it is to you. Which can be either not at all, or very much so. I know that the clients I have spoken with who have learned something from me about conservation become more loyal and trusting customers, but very few of them brought it up themselves. Most people assume that we know enough as framers to get their stuff on the wall; unless we go the extra mile ourselves, in making conservation important, I don't think most people honestly think about it. "How much will this cost?" is a far more common question than "How long will this last?"

Conservation is a fairly recent development in custom framing, and a lot of frame shops locally will not even bring it up, for fear of giving a price quote that will make them easy targets. (I know of one local framer who will talk customers out of UV glass just because he doesn't like to have it in his shop because it's so easily damaged, and so much slower moving. He considers it a liability.)

I think it's up to the framing industry to make education, and conservation, a priority, not just for other framers but for the general public. It's not always easy to talk someone into something that a.) no one else has ever told them, and b.) costs them more money for results that do not enhance the final product visually.

So yes, I think education is important, but just as much for the consumer as for the framer.

------------------
I don't care what color your sofa is.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Audrey Levins:
I started learning rudimentary framing skills when my boyfriend (now my fiance) opened his own shop three years ago. He was CPF certified by the shop he'd worked at before he opened his own, and he has taught me a great deal. (His shop did not work out but we still have all his equipment. *chuckle* That C&H oversize mat cutter makes a beautiful centerpiece in our dining room.)

Since then I have learned from co-workers in the shop I'm working at now, from mistakes I've seen come through the shop, and from my own hands-on experience. I also visit the on-line resources I have found, including TG.
smile.gif


I think education is as important to the client as it is to you. Which can be either not at all, or very much so. I know that the clients I have spoken with who have learned something from me about conservation become more loyal and trusting customers, but very few of them brought it up themselves. Most people assume that we know enough as framers to get their stuff on the wall; unless we go the extra mile ourselves, in making conservation important, I don't think most people honestly think about it. "How much will this cost?" is a far more common question than "How long will this last?"

Conservation is a fairly recent development in custom framing, and a lot of frame shops locally will not even bring it up, for fear of giving a price quote that will make them easy targets. (I know of one local framer who will talk customers out of UV glass just because he doesn't like to have it in his shop because it's so easily damaged, and so much slower moving. He considers it a liability.)

I think it's up to the framing industry to make education, and conservation, a priority, not just for other framers but for the general public. It's not always easy to talk someone into something that a.) no one else has ever told them, and b.) costs them more money for results that do not enhance the final product visually.

So yes, I think education is important, but just as much for the consumer as for the framer.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
 
Sorry For pressed the wrong key.

Audrey

Boy can I identify with the dinning room thing you should have seen our house up to two months ago before I got the studio in.
Love your input, maybe if Jean stays with her present company I might take a trip to TEXAS with her on one of her trips there and goof of while she works and get to meet you, her company are based out of Austin.

Dermot (Tea Break First)
 
Audrey wrote "..So yes, I think education is important, but just as much for the consumer as for the framer."

I believe you are right. When we can get the consumer to understand the value of framing, it will be beer and skittles for all of us. I guess a scary thought for me are those that work "in the dark". I've spoken to people who aren't a PPFA member (that's your own business decision), a CPF (that's your own personal decision), didn't subscribe to any of the trade publications, never took any courses (learned everything they needed to know on their own), etc.

I have to wonder what type of product that their customer was getting. I remember a clothing ad that used to run that toted "An Educated Consumer Is Our Best Customer".

Vic Grand - PPFA
 
I worked in this business for several years before becoming Certified in 1992. At that time I had never attended any classes. I gathered information primarily from the magazines, and new books as they were published. In the years between 1996 and 1999 was active in a local PPFA chapter in southern California, which sponsored a few classes and seminars. Since then I have made a point of taking classes at trade shows. I still read the trade mags cover to cover as they arrive and I still buy books as they come out.

The same ppfa chapter honored a local framer who had been framing in that area for over 50 years. In his speech he said that the single greatest mistake he made in his business was not keeping current with materials, methods, tools, and trends. (It didn't seem to hurt his business though, the reason he hadn't retired was that he had too many jobs lined up.)
 
OK, here goes:
1969, came home from Woodstock and went to work for Kramer the Framer (named after a Charles Bragg etching), a self taught framer. Kramer bought his business in the fifties and tried to schmooze other area framers but they were a tight-lipped crowd back then, not given to sharing trade secrets. So he invented his own way in the framing world. Some of the things he taught me are amusing today, some would make you cringe, and some are with me still.

For instance, I learned to mark the inner mat using a coffee stir-stick, and then cut the mat from the FRONT. Needlework was Kramer's baby (if you are squeamish, skip this bit). He would steam and block a piece, then glue with white glue to a piece of 3X mounting board. He would let this dry, squashed under a huge weight, the (here's the kicker) carefully TRIM OFF ALL OF THE CANVAS EDGE!!!!
To his credit Kramer taught me to fabric wrap mats and liners in the way I still see being touted.
After two years I was hired away by a rival shop, boss also self-taught. So I was the framing expert. I cut mats, worked with customers, started doing ordering. It was in this area that I pursuaded my boss to let me buy tools, etc. for myself. He thought I was nuts ("What are YOU going to do with a 36" ruler?" "I'm going to RULE!"

I went to my first framing convention on my own, met Bob Hendrixson, came home and pursuaded my boss to hire Bob to train the entire shop. This was an intensive 5 day course and I was blown away by the information and techniques.

I eventually acquired my own Keeton cutter (which we used at the shop) and since I could not join the PPFA at that time, I joined the short-lived Picture Framer's Guild. My boss used to yell at me for reading the trade mags on "His" time and after eight years I was fired for being uppity.

Ended up back at Kramer's, who by this time had a thriving DIY business. UGH. Went to more trade shows, tooks courses, read every thing I could get my hands on. I even wrote a few articles for Decor.

Eventually hired to be a manager of a VERY SHORT-LIVED shop (not my fault, but I learned a LOT).This led to backing sideways into owning my own shop with a partner who was a victim of the same disaster. She does photo retouching and restoration and I have learned a lot from her. Her hubby is a woodworker who builds what I call "earthquake-proof" shadowbox frames for me.

Was a member of the PPFA for a long time, became a CPF in 1986 (and in the time since, whenever a customer asks about the "diploma" I get the distinct impression that they are vaguely amused by the presumption of a mere picture framer trying to look like she has a "REAL" degree). Dropped out of the PPFA one year when money was especially tight and there was no chapter in my area anyway.

I keep files of Decor articles (after 20 years I have been forced to start cutting them up - they are like National Geographics
-they take up a lot of space!) I try to read current trades and I buy books on anything I want to learn, and I watch woodworking shows on PBS.

Needless to say, I am finding TG to be an invaluable resource. I may have to rejoin the PPFA just so I can see the HitchHiker!

That's my story, and I'm sticking to it!
 
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Framar:
1969, came home from Woodstock and went to work for Kramer the Framer (named after a Charles Bragg etching), a self taught framer.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Framar,

I recall this image......the etching of a framer who was obviously NOT a PPFA member!
smile.gif
For those not familiar with this artist, he had a great sense of humor.

Upon Kramer the Framer's front window was a sign that read, "In by 10 - Out by November"

My own framing education began with a PPFA workshop on Business practices back in 1978 in Minneapolis.......taught by Jim Kirkland.............these were traveling workshops in those days. I also purchased private "one-on-one" traning from two established framing businesses that year. Since then, I've taken dozens of PPFA workshops and seminars at trade shows and local PPFA Chapters.

I also took a traveling workshop taught by Leslie Sieswerda and the late, Cliff Bonnie. (Great Man) Piedmont moulding offered this workshop in the early 1980's. Leslie and Cliff then went to work for Larson-Juhl.

Of course I read the journals, PFM, Decor, Art Business News as well as the UK publication Art Business Today - This comes with your membership in the Fine Art Trade Guild. Fine Art Trade Guild (UK equivalent to PPFA)

Framar.....any idea where I can obtain a copy of "Kramer the Framer"? I've always wanted this piece?

John

(PPFA Member since 1978)

------------------

The Frame Workshop of Appleton, Inc.
www.theframeworkshop.com
Appleton, Wisconsin
jerserwi@aol.com
--------------------
 
I got into framing after college...I was waiting tables, doing freelance graphics and design and found myself repping artists...many of whom needed framing. My ex and I initially opened a small shop, he attending a week long framing school in Charlotte, me flying by the seat of my pants. I worked third shift at the local Waffle **** that fist summer serving over- cooked eggs to drunken redneck idiots and saved up to attend my first Atlanta show. I was absolutely overwhelmed and realized how much I needed to learn. I took classes in almost all areas, complementing the hands-on with constant reading and trial and error. If I can get just one thing out of a class, it has been worth my time and money. I am confident in my knowledge as a framer and that reflects in the type of framing I offer, what I am willing to do or pass up. Articles on business practices in trade mags have been invaluable, and now that I am basically starting over in a new shop, have helped me develop a solid strategy and business plan. The best aspect is the daily online interaction with other framers, conservators, artists...feedback my clients are thrilled I have access to. I am amazed at how few framers in my area bother to attend classes/seminars. I believe I am the only one on any of the online forums. Given the amount I have learned on this chat alone, these folks are missing the boat! And so are their clients! Knowledge is power, education is key to success.
P.S. It's great to be back on!
 
It's great to be back! My cable modem at home died and I never replaced it, only this past Spring getting back online at all. I've been laying low, regrouping this last year after some personal life changes and basically starting over with a new store. I'm registered for Atlanta, but no classes yet...not 100% sure on going but would love to meet everyone if I'm there!
 
I learned framing from the previous shop owner who is a CPF.
I have read the trade magazines since I started and also the books on the study list for the cpf test.
I'm also planning to take some classes in Atlanta in September to further my skills.
I find this forum and the hitchhikers an invaluable source of information. There is still so much to learn. I am pleased that there are so many of you that are willing to share your expertise.

I have only been doing this since 1998, but feel confident in my abilities to do good design work and to cause no damage to the customers artwork.
I agree that a lot of what we do is educate our customers. It is easy to "sell up" when you can give someone a reason for using a product.
Now if some of those customers would stroll through my door...
 
John, so thrilled that someone knows Kramer! The piece you described was the OTHER one, and I only saw it once. Many years ago I contacted Bragg's agent to obtain the one I have (Kramer in his workshop, apron strung around his bulging middle, flies buzzing around the glue pot, corner samples on pegboard, stick of moulding denting a canvas, and an example of a really overblown piece of framing.)

When I asked about Kramer, his agent had never heard of it and he had to call Bragg to find out about it. At that time, all Bragg had left was one proof. I framed it in the first frame I ever bought from Kramer.

Is Charles Bragg still alive? Does anyone know?
 
Most of my preservation knowledge came from a small shop in Round Rock, TX. After that I started reading the mags and obtaining books. Always said if there ever came a time where I couldn't learn something new I'd get out of the business. Don't think it'll happen in my lifetime, at least I hope not.
 
I learned proper framing at me second framing job way back in 1981. I was put under the supervision of a crusty old framer who had been at it "since time began".
I was taught basic hinging with filmoplast (yeah, I know, but it WAS 1981) basic and advanced mat cutting, cutting and joining and fitting.
My next job was doing conservation fitting, but for a chain of 4 stores, so I had to learn how to not only do my job well, but do it FAST.
I took the CPF for the first time in Chicago in 1988, and missed passing it by 20 points or so. I took it again in 1996 and passed.
Jobs have come and gone since, my knowlege has grown through the years, and will probably keep growing.
Now if I could only find a decent job to replace the nightmare one I'm stuck in now!
smile.gif


------------------
Seth J. Bogdanove, CPF
22 years framing and still loving it!
As usual, the website is www.masterclamp.com
 
Create a Post
Back
Top