Where can i get some Art print catalogs??

[ArkansasJen]

Hey guys... Ive just started to toss around the idea of keeping prints in stock. I also would like to have some print books in store...but i dont know where to get any! I have a VERY small shop, so id rather have books to look through than keep a large assortment of in-stock prints. I just dont even know where to start!

Can anyone give me websites or phone numbers of places to get any print books?? I REALLLLY appreciate it!! Thanksomuch! - Jen

 

[Ron Eggers]

You can get most of the major open-edition catalogs from Lieberman's, as well as the prints themselves. They also have a searchable catalog on CDs.

Keep in mind that some of the catalogs will be free and some will cost $25 or more. Many are updated regularly and it can get expensive just to keep the catalogs around.

http://www.liebermans.net/

 

[Puppyraiser]

Go the CD route. We have been ever so much happier since we switched over, and the customers are delighted with the ability to search by artist or theme. Makes us look really 'cutting edge' too. As for carrying prints in stock, our sad lesson is: Whatever you have, they don't want that. We have ended up framing a lot of them with leftovers and donating them... sigh.

 

[artist]

Since most of my clients have become computer literate and can get on the internet,I haven't used a catalog for about 3 years, although I still have them. I get on the puter and look up Art.com or posters.com and there are about a bazillion pieces of art available. and they are all updated continually.

 

[Jerry Ervin]

artist

You need to be careful with giving out these websites to your customers. They will start buying these things pre-framed and cut you out.

 

[jvandy57]

I give em libermans website. Since all prices are retail and they only sell to the trade,they can find what they want and then I can order it.

 

[DTWDSM]

If you want to sell art but not stock the inventory go with the Lieberman's DVD. Don't expect to sell much art though, people want to see the art in person, touch it, feel it, and do whatever else they can do with it in person.

If you can pay for the DVD with art sales then it is worth it, but without inventory don't expect art to be a big money maker for you.

 

[ArkansasJen]

Yeah... Thanks for all the Ideas guys! I dont have a computer to use the Cd on...Nor do i have a place to put a computer if i got one. I dont expect to sell alot of art, nor do i want to... i just would like that to be an option for people, thats all. Thanks for all the input!

 

[Puppyraiser]

In that case, sell local artists, & local scenes. You WILL be competing with the internet, and all the BigBedBoxes if you carry more general things like kittens, pictures of Italy,etc. Probably good to have some nice photographs too. My experience is to avoid the stuff you see in bunches at the trade shows... (although a few of the better quality oils might be nice) But WAIT! You didn't ask us this did you; only how to get books. Sorry...

 

[ArkansasJen]

What is BigBedBoxes??? And EVERYONE sells local art and photography here... its the middle of the Ozark mointains and Hippie-landddd...yay.

You cant go anywhere around here without finding local stuff.
But yeah... i really just want to have a couple print books...haha. I honestly have a postage stamp sized area im dealing with here. Ive been checking out that lieberman's site....seems promising. There's a hobby lobby that sells portal posters about a mile away...so i willll not get anything like that. Anyhoo.. Thanks again!

 

[Bob Carter]

I like Ellen and she often gives excellent advice. Getting unique items often can give you an edge, but I would be leary of ignoring things that are popular.

Pretend you are a grocery store and you have a choice of selling RC Cola or Coke/Pepsi.

I suspect most would opt for selling an industry leader.

The problem is when you carry something widely identifiable and recognized at prices that are way out of the market range.

It just reinforces the most powerful negative impression that consumers already have about us.

So, I agree with her advice about the stuff you see at the trade show and that suggests that a great way to get some Art Print Catalog is to go to the shows.

I am just a big proponent of thinking that it makes sense to carry what consumers want-you just have to carry it at prices that are competitive.

We don't need to give the consumers anymore reasons to think that we are way expensive than we already do

 

[ArkansasJen]

Well... im gonna get that liebermans catalog. Thanks for all the advice... some of it just didnt really apply to what i am able to do here. Im just a framer, its what i do because i love it... im not really in it for the money or anything. Id do it for free if i could!

 

[sandymc]

we are also a very small shop with a smaller budget! We "created" our own catalog by going to art.com and printing out prints that we liked and put them in plastic sleeves and into a binder.

 

[ArkansasJen]

*Clapping* YAY! Ok... That is an EXCELLENT Idea!!! Hmm... I dont know why i didnt think of that. Heh... Genius!!

Okay... That is what i will get started on Monday! Alittle bit of work goes a long way! Kickbutt... Im all Excited now...heheheh.... ThanksSoMuch!! *HUG*

 

[BILLIE BOB]

If i could suggest one cataloge to buy it would be the bruce mcgaw cataloge. bmcgaw.com I use to get a much better discount from them(50/40 for prints they publish). liebermans use to only give me a 50/10 discount and when you added the shipping back in, it wasnt much of a deal. I also used the Liebermans cataloge online but the print always look different when it came it(color was off from on the screen).

 

[Bogframe]

**erased at posters request, by Mike@GTP**

[ 08-31-2004, 04:27 PM: Message edited by: Mike-L@GTP ]

 

[Jim Miller]

Originally posted by ArkansasJen:
...Im just a framer, its what i do because i love it... im not really in it for the money or anything. Id do it for free if i could!

Whoa! "...just a framer"?! Pleasepleaseplease set the bar a bit higher. If you're going to be a framer, take the job seriously and do it well.

Framing is an honorable profession for many of us here, and our main source of income. I beg you -- learn to do professional work, and don't do it for free, even if you could. Charge a fair price and be a good competitor.

 

[ArkansasJen]

WOW.... And some of you wonder why people would rather do a crappy framing job themselves or go to a discount store... they dont want the attitude. Framing IS my only source of income... ive been framing for half of my life and i take MUCH PRIDE in that fact, sir. I frame because i love art and i love design and i LOVE MAKING PEOPLE HAPPY. Making people happy doesnt have a price tag on it.. and if it DOES for you...then i feel sorry for that. I dont frame for money...I have people that have been coming to me the entire time ive been a framer because they trust me not to take them to the cleaners and they trust my work. I came on this forum for some interaction with my professional PEERS... i didnt come to be belittled by someone who has their nose in the air. So thank you sir for making me realize that some of you arent my peers at all.

 

[Jim Miller]

Sorry, ArkansasJen. I didn't mean to offend, but I would not have guessed you are a professional framer, and in business to earn a living. If framing is your only source of income, then how can you not be "...in it for the money or anything"? I agree that making people happy doesn't have a price tag, but the rent does.

Your statement was typical of what we hear from hobby framers all the time, whose expertise is limited to framing their kids' artwork (badly) with moulding they picked up at Home Depot. They're REALLY not in it for the money or anything.

I misunderstood. I apologize.

 

[ArkansasJen]

It is how i make my living... but im not in it for the money. Its been my experience that MOST frame shops, small or large, dont make you hundreds of thousands of dollars. If i "was in it for the money" id be doing something else. I run my own shop and have done so for years. And as for People framing their childrens artwork "badly"...maybe if custom frame shops didnt charge so much.. they wouldnt do that. I know personally, i cant afford to custom frame alot of things! Even at COST.
I dont live my life for money...i live my life to be happy and do things i love to do. Fortunately, i can do both at the same time. You cant take money with ya when you go...but you can take your happiness and the happiness you made others feel.
Im sorry if my "priorities" are different than yours... but that is no reason to get nasty with anyone.

 

[Bob Carter]

There is not a single person in this trade that gives more of himself to make others better than Jim.

And he doesn't do it for riches; he does it for the value he imparts. He doesn't do it for fame; yet he is famous to many of us.

To have his honest opinion questioned when he speaks directly to the biggest problem many in our industry face is beyond nasty-it's stupid.

No one deserves our respect any greater than Jim. When you see him at the trade shows, he will answer anybody's questions. And he will take as much time as he has to do it. Think I am overstating a little bit? Just ask his wife, Gail

Jim is too decent to respond and I'm sure he would prefer that I don't either. I guarantee he meant absolutely no offense; but, offered sound, realistic advice to price work at a fair price to ensure a fair profit.

We have no idea of the skill level of our latest Grumbler on a framing level.

But, I am fairly confident I have an opinion on her business skills and her inter-personal skills.

To show such a good person as Jim that lack of respect as exhibited simply baffles me.

 

[ArkansasJen]

Oh thats wonderful too... Gang up on me! Super..
All i asked was a simple question and SOME people answered my question with great ideas! Some just want to pick on people.

 

[Emibub]

Originally posted by ArkansasJen:
And as for People framing their childrens artwork "badly"...maybe if custom frame shops didnt charge so much.. they wouldnt do that. I know personally, i cant afford to custom frame alot of things! Even at COST.

Except the reason we charge so much is because of cost of materials and the time and overhead it takes to produce the finished product. Your comment that you can't afford to frame for yourself at cost should suggest to you that materials can be pricey.


I'm baffled here. You appear to be framing for benevolent purposes. If your desire is to make people happy I bet your time could be spent more wisely doing charity work. It is certainly okay for you to spread the joy and frame for whatever price you deem appropriate. But, don't question who the professionals are.

[ 09-01-2004, 12:04 AM: Message edited by: Emibub ]

 

[Ruth]

I don't think they were ganging up on you. The way you stated things, you implied that we were all taking people to the cleaners on framing. If you are making a living then you must be charging enough to support yourself. You have to charge enough to pay all the bills and overhead and have a profit (what you live on) too.

This is a great board with a lot of great people who have excellent advice to run a business well. They're not picking on you.

 

[j Paul]

ArkansasJen, BAD FORM JEN

 

[ArkansasJen]

All right... You are all SO right. Im sure you are so proud of yourselves... as im sure you think you should be. Have a WONDERFUL Life all of you! Thanks for those of you who gave me good tips on the print catalogs. To the rest of you.. Sleep well. Go gcreime galar tógálach do dhiosca crua. Go n-ithe an cat thú is go n-ithe an diabhal an cat. *Maith thú*

 

[Puppyraiser]

You know? I was predisposed to liking you, Jen, because of your Rollins quote, and you seemed open to learning. But it is hardly 'ganging up' for several people to speak up in defense of our trade. If you can pay your bills on what you charge, then you are doing OK. We pay our bills, Jim pays his bills; all of us do.(I assume.. hehehe) None of us are rich, because few of us make that much. In fact, we ALL do this for the love of it. If I wanted to be rich, this would be a poor career choice. And if truth were known, I would never spend that kind of money on getting stuff framed. So ease up, and remember that when you slam us, we will squawk... kind of like you.

 

[Jay H]

“maybe if custom frame shops didn’t charge so much.. “

I don’t charge a penny more than its worth.

You’re not being ganged up on. However the “cost of framing” issue comes up with a large percentage of new grumblers post. Jim only thought that this was another one of those topics.

There was once a photographer who wanted to know if we could help him set up a small operation to frame his own work so he didn’t have to pay a framer. You are being treated like a queen compared to him. He did take advice better than you did though.

"Go gcreime galar tógálach do dhiosca crua. Go n-ithe an cat thú is go n-ithe an diabhal an cat."

Is this a spell? I only speak two languages. English and that strange dialect my wife uses in her sleep at 3am. This ain't that.

 

[SCFramer527]

I think she wants the devel to do something to our cats and our hard drives but, fortunately, she doesn't yet appear to wish that infectious diseases weaken our manly parts.

I'm not familiar with all the dialects in Arkansas, but somehow I doubt that Jen actually speaks this one....must have gotten a little help from http://www.lincolnu.edu/~focal/scripts/mallacht.htm

 

[Ron Eggers]

NOW I think you all are piling on.

 

[Jim Miller]

Let's not be too hard on poor Jen. (We know she's poor because she can't afford her own framing.)

She's only trying to defend herself from what she apparently perceives to be unfair criticism from a pack of vicious strangers. Is that about right, Jen?

Since I inadvertently started this interesting line of communication, I'd like to apologize again, to Grumblers in general, for unleashing the wrath of Jen.

Jen, you thought my reply was offensive, which was not my intent. That's why I apologized. Now you've got me wondering -- what's your intent?

 

[ArkansasJen]

Excellent... I have my very own Wrath AND im Poor!!

 

[Jay H]

I swear that you are in no way being singled out. This is really a bunch of helpful-fun people to chat with. Very little of what is said here should be considered of any value.

A good example of this is a recent thread entitled “Advertisements” where a few of us have wildly different experiences with advertisements. So the differing opinions basically void each other and none of has any value. However the one that asked the question has plenty of things to consider. Sometimes you agree, sometimes you don’t. There is no need to take any of this personal.

The Grumble needs participants to keep things lively. After all Ron won’t be around forever and the lurkers will leave if there is only 2 or 3 posts per day here. Your question was in fact about art catalogs. You didn’t ask for advice on pricing (that’s good too because we wouldn’t agree on that either) but threads do vary wildly around here.

I guess what I’m trying to say is, Welcome to the Grumble.

 

[ArkansasJen]

What a welcome.

 

[ArkansasJen]

You know... I apologize to anyone who was just being NICE. Ive been "proving" myself for 10 years..proving my dedication, proving my skill level... well.. sometimes you get alittle irritated with proving yourself..especially to people who are just on a web board. I really do appreciate the advice on print catalogs. I just get very tired of dealing with people who think that they are better than everyone else. I think some framers get so used to rubbing elbows with well-off people and Uppity artists... they begin to think its "ok" to act that way too. I just think that we as a whole should be more willing to work with people who dont have so much money to spend. And yeah...Jim, i AM poor. Not because i dont make enough money, but because i choose to give most of it away to things i believe in. I like to make this world better by my actions as a human being sharing this earth with millions of other creatures. I dont really delight in making the little guy, poor guy or new guy...feel badly because of the hand they were dealt. Maybe my shop isnt as big and fancy as some of yours... but i worked my BUTT off to get it and i work my butt off to keep it respectable. I do good work.. and yeah.. I WOULD do it for free (i know i CANT). I donate my time and money, because i WANT to.. and because i CAN. And maybe thats "stupid" to leave myself without some things, like money to custom frame my own things, but man... i sure sleep good at night. Now i know 99.9% of you guys on here are SUPER people...and if you knew me in real life.. youd think i was great too, id like to think so anyway. So, sorry if i freaked people out by saying id do it for free, but i think some of you didnt understand what i meant.

 

[Dermot]

Jen Welcome to the Grumble

So you think you have had a bumpy welcome to the Grumble …….well it was suggested that I might be an “Axe Murder” see this thread http://www.thegrumble.com/cgibin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=7;t=000137
I guess that’s one of the things that makes the G such a “interesting” place you can never tell how something is going to be taken or responded to……that thread about me being an Axe Murderer still brings a smile to my face…..principally because when Ron posted it I knew that people around the G felt comfortable with me and that they felt they could say what the wanted to me knowing that that it would be taken in the spirit that it was intended……

Just a word of warning about the G….it is a fast moving place and on occasions things can get said in a way that may not always reflect the true intent of what the person is trying to say…….though I can honestly say that there are no intently bad people around here………once again welcome to the Grumble…

BTW am I correct in thinking that that is a bit of Irish you were posting a bit back!!!!!.....

 

[Jerry Ervin]

Originally posted by ArkansasJen:
...I just get very tired of dealing with people who think that they are better than everyone else. I think some framers get so used to rubbing elbows with well-off people and Uppity artists... they begin to think its "ok" to act that way too....

Jen,

I feel the same way you do. I am going into my 11th year as a frame shop owner. There are a lot of good people in this industry. Some of those are here on the Grumble. There is also a large number in our industry that are just like you say "think their better" than the rest of us. I have actually found that to be to my advantage. Everyday I get new customers that have been put off by the actions of other framers. Also I feel like that is part of the reason big box framers are taking away business from some, not all of the independents.

Hang with us here on the G for a while and let's me and you have this discussion again later.

 

[Ron Eggers]

Oh, good. Jerry finally has a kindred spirit to talk to.

Not that my testimony is going to mean much - I'm probably one of the bad guys - but Jim Miller is a rare, maybe unique, combination of great guy, great framer, great businessman and great teacher.

I can't imagine anyone less likely to intentionally insult or belittle a fellow framer.

 

[Jerry Ervin]

Let me clarify.

I did not mean that anyone in this thread met the criteria. I think the world of Jim Miller! It is just what she said struck a cord! Maybe it should even be a new thread. That is why I said we could talk about it later. After you get to know people here, you have a better idea where they are coming from.

No one here please be offended by my previous comment.

It is really hard to run a business, wait on customers, and Grumble all at the same time. I don't know how Ron does it.

 

[ERIC]

I've heard that it is quite a sight to behold

 

[ArkansasJen]

Well... at least there are some people who know what i meant by it all. I dont know... I am younger than most of you on here.. and well, The generation i am in thinks very differently than alot of you. And im sure many of you can and will say that my generation is full of apathetic, lazy whiners.. and you know... youre right, halfway. Part of my generation IS like that... but MORE of them are very socially aware and active in helping others and helping the world we live in. But i think alot of that comes from the fact that we were raised by a generation of people who were focused on themselves and what they could "get", and how much money they could make. Alot of people who are my parents age are so consumed by money that they are horribly unhappy with their lives. They have raised Children that either dont care anymore... or children who just dont want to be anything like their parents. I think its hard for people to get a different view of life when you are looking over such a generation gap.

 

[Kit]

Originally posted by ArkansasJen:
Well<font color = red>,</font>at least there are some people who know what <font color = red>I</font> meant by it all. I <font color = red>don't</font> know...<font color = red>incomplete sentence</font> I am younger than most of you on here<font color = red . <strike> and well</strike></font> The generation <font color = red>I</font> am in thinks very differently <strike>than</strike><font color = red>from</font> alot of you. And <font color = red>I'm</font> sure many of you can and will say that my generation is full of apathetic, lazy whiners and... you know... youre right, halfway.<font color = red> Overuse of ellipsis.</font> Part of my generation IS like that...<font color = red>(again)</font> but MORE of them are very socially aware and active in helping others and helping the world we live in. But <font color = red>I</font> think alot of that comes from the fact that we were raised by a generation of people who were focused on themselves and what they could "get", and how much money they could make. Alot of people who are my parents<font color = red>'</font> age are so consumed by money that they are horribly unhappy with their lives. They have raised <font color = red>c</font>hildren <strike>that</strike><font color = red>who</font> either dont care anymore... or children who just don<font color = red>'</font>t want to be anything like their parents. I think it<font color = red>'</font>s hard for people to get a different view of life when <strike>you</strike><font color = red>they</font> are looking over such a generation gap.

You are correct in your assumption that most of the people here are adults. We behave like adults and treat each other with respect. Those who behave like children are treated accordingly.

Captain English

 

[Puppyraiser]

Well, THAT should throw fuel on the fire! hehehehe

 

[ERIC]

Originally posted by ArkansasJen:
Well... The generation i am in thinks very differently than alot of you.

Hmmm, now where have I heard that one before?

(tick, tock, tick, tock)


I know! All us old people were saying the same exact thing about 20 or 30 years ago. My goodness, I'm only 38 and I remember thinking that.

King Solomon, thought to be one of the wisest men that ever lived, said "There is nothing new under the sun".

Did they have generation gap way back then?

 

[Ron Eggers]

Did they have generation gap way back then?

Oh, sure, Eric.

The three-hundred-year-olds were always putting down the one-hundred-year olds in the Old Testament, calling them "snot-nosed whipper-snappers," if I remember my Scripture correctly.

 

[Gumbogirl]

Oh, wow. I have never seen Captain English's red pen in action! That's, er, impressive, and a tad scary! P.S. We raise livestock and rear children, don't we? (I could not resist.) Did that point the ominous red pen in my direction?

Ron, I sincerely hope you don't hit the 10K mark while settling an argument, or smoothing ruffled feathers. You seem to be working overtime in that department lately! I hope you are describing your favorite pickle, recipe with root beer, rutabegas,
or telling us about your newest application for the AttachEZ or those beloved Wallbuddies! One can hope.

Has the full moon passed?
Eric, you and I are "old as the young hills", I guess...

 

[John Gornall]

Interesting that each generation thinks they invented idealism.

Also interesting how the idealism changes as life goes on. The adjustment to making money so you can feed your kids and give them a life where they can be idealists.

 

[CharlesL]

Reading this thread should inspire one of the moderaters to trash it. Any takers?

A Google search for "Art Prints" yeilds 6,250,000 results...just in case anyboby's interested.

 

[DTWDSM]

Jen, you talk about your generation, how old/young are you? I too would guesstimate that I am younger than many here.

I will say that I think that you took offense to something that was not meant to be offensive. There are people here that do offend but, you have to remember this is an internet forum, don't let it bother you. I have never met Jim or even talked to him before but I am sure that he didn't mean to offend. If it were some other person I might not have said the same.

Don't know what age or generation you come from but you can't let what is typed or read on the internet offend no matter what generation you are from.

 

[Maryann]

I have never met Jim

Well, I have. If you looked up gentleman in the dictionary, it might actually have a picture of Jim Miller.

IMHO, I think offense was taken where none was meant....just a small bit of advice was offered from one of the leaders in our industry.