when the one you trust ,lets you down


SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Dec 31, 2001
New York's Hudson River Valley
Newburgh Mercantile
I need some advice here - What happens when you send a customers poster out to one of those companys that offer the canvas transfer service, and they call you to inform you . . . . that it was "lost in production", . . . . but they hesitate to buy the replacement poster?

Can I make them go through extreme lengths to get that replacement?
How extreme, Eric?

Is it a rare or out-of-print poster? Signed by Paris Hilton, or otherwise priceless?

If so, it probably wasn't a good candidate for transfer.

If not, you mean they won't spring for a new one?

Are you talking OGG? They botched the last transfer I had them do. While they didn’t lose the print, they really screwed it up. It took a long time on the phone to get them to replace it.

If it is Old Grange, lean on them! Mistakes happen, but at least you’d think they would try to make it right if only for the sake of public relations. This forum hasn’t been too kind to Old Grange Graphics exactly for that reason.
I'd remind them they have a legal responsibility, and electing to do nothing creates exposure (aka liability) and that if you need to employ the services of an attorney to force them to do what they are legally bound to do in the first place they are going to end up springing for the poster, plus their attorney, plus your attorney.
Ok let's all settle down here. What was the poster anyway and can it be replaced? More than likely the cost to replace the poster will be less than $50, and you can either send it back to that company and short pay the invoice by the cost of the print or just send it to another company to get the job done.

Getting a lawyer involved is a waste of time and money for all involved if this is a poster that can be replaced.

Both companies that we have worked with have always been god when it comes to customer service and i can not imagine that they would not be willing to replace the poster, maybe you need to talk to the right person and not the person who drew the short straw and had to call you with the bad news.

Good luck
Both companies that we have worked with have always been god when it comes to customer service
Tim, that's a very high standard! I don't think many of us could live up to it.
Realistically no one is going to call a lawyer for a poster.

Lawyers are for the most part bottom feeders and they will be the only ones that make a buck on the situation.

When someone says they will get their lawyer involved I ALWAYS view it as an empty threat and if they do so what?!

Take me to court and if you win you still have to try and collect.

Doctah, although well intentioned a more than likely replaceable poster isn't worth the time (yours and the customers) and money (money you will never see) that calling in a shark will take from you.

Better yet call the company that messed up and keep asking for the next higher person if the one your dealing with doesn't help.

If you get the boss and they don't help (like Bendix) then tell them to jump off a bridge, cut your losses, bad mouth them here, and find someone better that wants your business.
"Take me to court and if you win you still have to try and collect.'

Acually, that isn't such a good philosophy. If you refuse to pay, the person sueing you can always put a lein on your property and you won't be able to sell it until the lein, plus interest!! is paid. That can really add up to alot of money if a lein is left on property for 10-20 years.

My lawyer says that is what I should do if the person I have sued in Small Claims Court refuses to pay.

Other than that, I agree with you completely!
>When someone says they will get their lawyer involved I ALWAYS view it as an empty threat and if they do so what?!

That can be a very expensive attitude. Most normal people will recognize that they're gonna pay one way or another and will do the right thing, even if it's painful, especially when they are so clearly in the wrong. Of course, there are always the few hardheads that don't take the hint and give the "go ahead and sue me" response. Even the majority of these get religion when the demand comes through in writing on letterhead (not that expensive). The real dunderheads make you go to a judge.

Certainly the first line of defense would be to talk to someone who actually has the power the rectify the situation. It's only when you've gone through the rounds and gotten nowhere that escalation needs to take place (and the level of harm vs the cost to make it right are an additional calculus to be considered). I would have assumed this was understood. Nobody sane shouts "I'll sue you for this!" at the first hint of trouble, except the excessively wealthy and those in the movies.
UPDATE - they are looking for a new poster. They know that it comes from a museum in Paris, and they are waiting for confirmation that it is available.

I thought from the conversation yesterday that they were not willing to pay to have it shipped from Paris, but when I called back today, they were more clear about what the hold up was. It should all work out fine - if Paris has a copy. :rolleyes:

It was not rare or signed by anyone, just a very, very large version of one of the masters that came from an exhibition.

Sorry this turned into a legal battle thread

Signed by Paris Hilton, or otherwise priceless?
Didn't you mean to type 'worthless'?

Sorry if I don't seem "normal" in your eyes but if I had a nickle for every moron that yells for a lawyer I would have more money than the lawyers do.

I've never been sued personally (or profesionally)and you would have to sue the business not me if someone wanted to considering I am an LLC not doing this out of my basement.

So their could be no lein against my property and the business is a lease.

I have never given anyone cause to sue but hear the war cry about going to court come out of soo many people it ticks me off.

If your coffee is too hot..sue McDonalds
If you start smoking and get cancer...sue big tobacco
If you get fat eating burgers... sue Burger King
If you do anything, ever ... sue someone for the heck of it.

That rant felt good.
If my Kinkade lost value...sue hobby Lobby for putting paper mats on it.
Well, the worst possible thing. The museum is out of stock of that poster.

Has anyone else been in my position? I would like to talk to someone that has had to be in the middle like this.
I dread making this phone call. This is a poster that my customer received as a gift from her brother, after he knew that she had been looking for it a long time. More than the usual attachment to a poster. It's like her dream piece of art, well it was anyhow.

Next time I will prime the customer of this possibility before agreeing to take an order.
There has to be an answer Eric. The museum must know the publisher of the poster...When I was at Michael's somebody lost two paintings from Paris, of the selling on the street corner variety. The paintings weren't worth anything but meant a whole lot to the customer. She was able to retrace her steps through various places she had gotten receipts from and pinpointed where this artist had set up shop. She contacted one of the stores near there and they were able to put her in contact with this street vendor, who of course was able to replace her one of a kind "original" art by two pieces that were uncannily the same. All that from various receipts she still had in her purse all the way to Paris, and the guy didn't even have a store front.

You have a museum where it was purchased, I bet it will take time but they will find it for you.

How about Ebay?

I'd also like to add that the missing "art" in my little tale was found several months later by somebody who was moving empty sleeves from point A to point B.

I'd also like to add that I was no longer in charge of the crew when said incident took place. I had already given up my crown, defeated........
Check the web for a site of the museum.... if they are OUT that is different then "limited run that no longer exsistes".

I have gotten posters for museums that have sain no to the customer.... and then I contacted them and explained the situation and wow, they found the "last one" and shipped it.... a roll from Paris,
doesn't cost that much.

Not nearly as much as a photographer to make a bootleg copy.... don't ask.
Has anyone tried the new canvas transfer service from Liebermans? I was just looking through their catalog today. I guess they dropped Old Grange Graphics (or whatever) and are now doing this service themselves.
Ron, I read your post with my quote for about the 5th time this morning and finnaly got it. Good, yes...God, might be overstating it!

Eric, find out what the options are before calling the customer so you have a solution to the problem. If you call and then don't have a solution you only make the situation worse.

As for "priming" the customer, don't expect to sell a transfer again if you tell them what could go wrong.
Now that I have a heat press I have been teaching the canvas transfer method to myself. I have yet to offer it to the public but I plan to soon. At least if something happens to my customers print, it will truly be my fault and not that of a vendor.

This is not the first horror story I have heard about the before mentioned vendor.

Let us know how it turns out Eric.
WHat does the poster look like and who is the artist.

Slim chance but one of us might have it or can track one down somewhere.

It's worth a shot and we would help if we can.