Opinions Wanted What's the rule for glass / liner?

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Paul N

Paul N

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
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When using a liner, do you place the glass below or above the liner?

I am almost always finding myself placing the glass below the liner (with a spacer if required) if glass is not Mus. Glass.

My reasoning being that the glass over the liner (although it will protect the liner) that it will give it a shadow box look when none is called for (too much space between the glass and the art).

What are your thoughts on this?
 
I do both Paul depending on the design and the fabric used on the liner. If the framed object has depth sometimes using the liner as a spacer is a great way to go.

I'd say most of the time I place the glass below the liner.
 
If it's museum glass, I almost always put it between the frame and liner. Any other type of glass usually goes behind the liner with a spacer.
 
I might do either, but most of the time I but the glass between the liner and the frame.
 
Glass over liner, usually. Seems to make the liner look more integral to the art rather than an afterthought and it protects the liner.
 
Usually, glass over the liner, as if the liner were a mat/spacer. I like the depth anyway. Problem with glass under the liner is cleaning the glass....you can tell folks till you're blue in the face, "Don't spray the glass, just the rag", but they won't remember, they'll squirt that cleaner on the glass, it will drip down and be soaked up by that bottom liner and then you've got a stained liner, and "I told you so" still won't get it.
 
Val said:
Usually, glass over the liner, as if the liner were a mat/spacer. I like the depth anyway. Problem with glass under the liner is cleaning the glass.
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I'm with you, Val, for the same reasons. Even if they just spray the rag, they are going to wipe dirt onto the liner itself...
:cool: Rick
 
Thanks, Rick, I guess we all know this from experience, eh?

I have one in the shop now that I'm trying to figure out how to replace the filthy-dirty-stained liner for that very reason, and keep the filthy-dirty frame, but the liner is very old and not available in that size anymore. Looking at painting the liner to "fix" it, as she's not receptive to replacing the entire liner and frame. I think I will have to tell her I'm not going to attempt it.

How many times do we hear, here "We are framers, not magicians"...?

It's hard to say no.
 
Val said:
Looking at painting the liner to "fix" it, as she's not receptive to replacing the entire liner and frame. ACK!!
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Val, we have a framed painting that we purchased 30-35 years ago when we were first married from a painter at the county fair. Kind of nostalgic, so we didn't want to re-frame it. I took the painting out and separated the liner from the frame and "Sprayed" it and it turned out great. Although it is now relegated to a room in the basement, as our taste in art has matured, as we.


While rules are meant to be broken, as they say, I can't see using a liner on top of glass. The main use is on a canvas in lieu of a mat. Not going to be spraying that with glass cleaner. Using it under glass as a space is OK, in my book.
 
Val said:
I have one in the shop now that I'm trying to figure out how to replace the liner for that very reason, but the liner is very old and not available in that size anymore. ACK!!
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Val,
Why don't you get a wider liner and rip it down to size on a table saw. Even if you don't have the saw I'm sure you know many people who do. There is no special knowledge needed for this, just a rip fence on the saw. Should only take 2 or 3 minutes.
 
I usually let my customers decide and most of the time they want the glass over the liner. They like the fact that it is being protected also. The only time I will not put it over the liner is if it is RC glass.
 
j Paul said:
[U]"Sprayed" it and it turned out great. [/U]Although it is now relegated to a room in the basement, as our taste in art has matured, as we.

While rules are meant to be broken, as they say, I can't see using a liner on top of glass. The main use is on a canvas in lieu of a mat. Not going to be spraying that with glass cleaner. Using it under glass as a space is OK, in my book.
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Sprayed it with what? I have my ideas, but not the gumption to try it yet. I have an airbrush that I don't use often, and have tried painting with a brush, but it clumps up and looks yukky. I'd bet the airbrush would be better. Suggestions???
 
Val, Jeff has the best advice for a new one. Most of the fabric/liner suppliers will assemble the liner and cut off the excess from the perimiter. When all else fails, you can remove the old fabric and recover it.

As for the glass between the frame and liner or under the liner, we seem to mostly sell it between the frame and liner when the designer has neglected to compensate for the LARGER MORE EXPENSIVE glazing when entering the job into Lifesaver! :smileyshot22: :)
 
jframe said:
As for the glass between the frame and liner or under the liner, we seem to mostly sell it between the frame and liner when the designer has neglected to compensate for the LARGER MORE EXPENSIVE glazing when entering the job into Lifesaver! :smileyshot22: :)
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For that reason I really liked the upgrade on Specialty Soft that allowed the glass to be moved in place and priced correctly. Does lifesaver have a way to compensate for this? For Full calc I used to figure my frame size and enter that as my dimension and enter my liner as a "fillet".

So I guess from that you can tell I am a big fan of glass over the liner. But the liner height to frame rabbett ratio often makes the fitting more awkward in that respect. It really does depend on teh art though. I hate to put spacers on canvas but flat art I really don't mind if it is preferred.
 
Frankenthread

Val said:
I have one in the shop now that I'm trying to figure out how to replace the filthy-dirty-stained liner for that very reason, and keep the filthy-dirty frame, but the liner is very old and not available in that size anymore. Looking at painting the liner to "fix" it, as she's not receptive to replacing the entire liner and frame. I think I will have to tell her I'm not going to attempt it.
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Val, I took an eraser to an old dirty liner once. Took a few minutes and it looked pratically new when finished. I think it depends on the dirt/stains but it's worth a try.
 
My customers like the look of the glass over the liner. I framed a cross stitch project that way. The downside is having to clean the glass frequently because everyone ones to poke at the glass to make sure it is there. The upside is it's easy to sell museum glass with this look.
 
Depends on the art be usually it is glass on top of liner. We do it this way for the very reasons people are commenting on: It acts as the spacer, keeps the liner clean, and eliminates the I warned you. As for cleaning that old liner and frame I charge extra for cleaning up peoples old messes.
 
Val... Remove the old liner fabric from the wood and re-wrap with new fabric. Or if you are going to paint the liner, spray works the best. If painting, use light coats of paint with ample drying time between. Too much moisture and the glue with fail and you'll get to re-wrap the liner. Another trick with old stained liners is to re-stain them with coffee or tea.
 
mik said:
Val... Remove the old liner fabric from the wood and re-wrap with new fabric. Or if you are going to paint the liner, spray works the best. If painting, use light coats of paint with ample drying time between. Too much moisture and the glue with fail and you'll get to re-wrap the liner. Another trick with old stained liners is to re-stain them with coffee or tea.
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I like Acrylics for painting old liners..If you can create a painting on stretched linen canvas...you can paint a linen liner!
L.
 
imaluma said:
For that reason I really liked the upgrade on Specialty Soft that allowed the glass to be moved in place and priced correctly. Does lifesaver have a way to compensate for this? For Full calc I used to figure my frame size and enter that as my dimension and enter my liner as a "fillet".
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In Lifesaver the liner goes into the mat field so that the glass/frame size is figured on the outside measurement of the liner.
 
jframe said:
In Lifesaver the liner goes into the mat field so that the glass/frame size is figured on the outside measurement of the liner.
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Jo:

Is this really the case??

Because when one is selling a frame + liner, LifeSaver doesn't seem to realize the outside size has changed to that of frame+liner (essentially, the art size has increased by whatever width the liner has). The price does increase in LS (frame+liner), but not the sizes.

To get around this, I enter the liner-width in the mat-width fields. Now one has the true size for glass as well.

PS: This might be a post better suited for the LifeSaver Tips and Tricks thread.
 
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