Question What would you have done?

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fireframer

CGF, Certified Grumble Framer
Joined
Feb 13, 2008
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minneapolis suburb
Got a tricky one for you all. And while we are soliciting opinions, I should let you all know that we have taken action and found a solution...but really am interested in other perspectives.

So we run a consignment art gallery and a high end custom frame studio. Recently we showed a new and emerging, extraordinarily talented young artist's work and put an equally impressive (three stacked moulding) design on one of her pieces.

She recently alerted us that she was being hosted for an artist reception and show at a fairly distant gallery. She asked if she could pick up her original works because she didn't have the time to complete enough work for the show. We agreed, but asked her to pay a bit above the cost of the framing since there was a chance the pieces wouldn't be returned to us.

As we expected, one piece sold and the client bought another piece quite a bit larger and asked the gallery owners to remove the frame they had put around the larger one and replace it with the combination we had put on the smaller one. The gallery owner just called us and asked us to supply them with the framing material since two of the mouldings used were from vendors they do not work with. "we want you to make money, so add a little in for yourself." was the comment regarding the unusual request. We said, why don't you just send your client to us and we'll take care of them. They proceeded to say, then the frame would cost more and the artist would end up with less money in her pocket.

We called the artist who said, she made nothing on the framing component, she is simply paid for her paintings...just as we expected. How would you have dealt with this?
 
Offer to sell them the frame at retail, minus a discount. Then entertain their counter offer. They can pick it up.
 
I agree with Bob. Offer them a courtesy discount ...maybe 20%.
 
I'd be honest with the other frame shop and explain that you don't feel comfortable taking a hit on this order while they profit nicely from it. If the art buyer wants the frame that only you can provide, the buyer should be seeing you. In the same situation, I would have played nice with my fellow framers and sent the customer to you directly. That's the ethical thing to do and they should think of it that way.
 
Deal, no deal.

I would treat them as any customer that wants to by full length sticks. I have a price for length and another price for chop per foot. I also have a separate price for joining which I would deduct from the footage price, that would be their savings. I would not ship, I would let them come get it...unless they wanna pay shipping and hand.,

They have the ability to take on the moulding company that has the desired styles, they can do that for free and solve their own problems in-house if they really want to. If they do not wish to do that, then they can pay me just like normal clients. Now, if there is future relationship that might be different...but it sounds like a one time favor they are asking for.

It sounds to me like they know their client might like your design sense, it makes sense for them to not have them ever meet you. It is a compliment if you look at it in that light :)
 
A deal like this this falls into the category of “professional courtesy” to another framer.

If you help, you wont make any money but you will make a friend. (Maybe)

If it were me asking the favor and not getting help I would find the supplier on my own, maybe using the Grumble and you would still be out of the picture.

I trade off similar services with other photo and frame shops and have developed a nice network of friends who help me and I help them. In the end I benefit greatly.

Here's interesting observation. Photofinishers are much more likely to share or trade without expecting profit. Not so much with framers. That's why I like the Grumble.

I'm waiting to hear your solution.
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You deserve at least a Gold Star for your design skills.

Doug
 
Doug i don't think in this case I would feel bad if the buying framer was my "freind" or not. They are
a fairly distant gallery.
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If they don't like my price, since it'll have to be shipped to them, they can approach a more local framer "friend" of theirs.

I work well with my local framers, do small stuff for Grumblers, as I have a relationship with them. But as to a framer in a town 50 miles away, well, they're 50 miles away. If they have something I want it's more of a pain to get than it is worth 9 times out of 10!

For me a framer with moulding I want, moulding that is not discontinued, I would set up an account with the supplier, or order from them via credit card.

If I ordeed the moulding chopped for them it would be under the stipualtion that its their measurements, no returns! Then I would call my supplier and have it cut by them and shipped to that site, me not touching it once. Billed on my card and shipped to their address. Blind billing in that the invoice and charge info be mailed to me. I'd also want a tracker number, I don't want this company to mess up my relationship with my supplier!

This group already showed their trustworthiness by lying to you in that they said the artist would be shortchanged, and they already "cheated" the artist out of an extra percentage.
 
as per bob's suggestion, instead of billing, can they pay for the chop, COD? also, when this other gallery tells you what they need in the first place, have them fax it to you so you have it in writing.

as far as the option, not taken, of them sending the client to you and it being an independant framing sale, it should not affect the artists bottom line, but that's assuming they wouldn't want a piece of the action somehow. there are situations, though, where the art seller expects a certain profit that would come from the art sale and framing. if they were to pocket less by virtue of not doing the framing, but still wanted the the same in the end, then they might nickel and dime the artist to compensate for lost framing.
 
Froptop I was thinking of suggesting COD but if they bounce the check then my account looks bad! And since I don't know them I don't want to mess up with a supplier just to do a stranger a favor.

I'd bend over backward for a Grumbler or a framer I know, but not for a gallery that wants to sidestep me on a frame sale I designed for them. Plus I don't know if they can chop and join on site or if they have to order joined. How is their measuring? With three stacked frames am I getting all three or are they getting the one they can get?

More I think about it more I want to say, here's the supplier's phone number, the account's person's name, the frame numbers, send me $50 for a design fee and get the moulding yourself. If the check doesn't clear, oh well, headache gone. Chock one more up to experience and not do the same for the next frame shop that calls!

Hey, its the XMas rush right now, I don't want to deal with headaches outside my control. June, March I'll wrestle you for the $10 difference, but right now my time is more valuable....
 
There is no way on this here green earth that "some distant gallery" will get to dictate to me what I make (and don't make) on each sale. I alone decide what I will make on each sale and I do not need someone deciding that "I can add a little for myself."

The agreement between the artist and That Gallery is their business and none of mine. I do not decide on my prices based on what an artist may or may not be able to make from it.

I would certainly offer the name and numbers of the supplier of the frames and be done with it. If they're in business, then they can get it themselves. If they're not: then that's what I do, send them my way.

Edie the keepitsimple goddess
 
We're happy to see our feelings are resonating in your responses to this. So here is what we did...We offered the gallery TWO choices, one was a slightly reduced retail price for the two frames that they were not able to get on their own. A pregnant pause on the other end of the phone line ultimately led to "...God, that is expensive...uh, moulding." We confirmed that it was, but that we had some discontent around them basically asking us to hand over information for them to benefit from our aesthetic sense.

We then said, it would be really nice if you could simply let your client understand your limitations but let them know that you contacted the gallery who did the original work (mention our name) and tell them that you would collaborate with us to get the job done and they would still be able to pick the piece up at the gallery where they purchased it. Basically, we wanted them to have our name associated with the project and originally viewed workmanship. The gallery would pay the same price we quoted them and they could do whatever they wanted with their client.

The gallery responded rather favorably to our discontent, understood it and said, well, I guess, I will just give them a credit for the frame that was around it and tell them to come and see you. I said, I am not trying to steal your clients, I just want your clients, who are appreciating our design sense, to know who they can work with on other projects going forward.

It is worth knowing that the gallery is distant enough that we would not hold the artist to our exclusivity clause but the gallery is maybe 8 miles away, a good 15 minute drive. Now, I personally wouldn't have inconvenienced the clients, but the gallery clearly doesn't value the client relationship enough to keep them from walking through our doors. We gave them an option of admittedly paying a bit more to get the job done while creating a nonthreatening(to the gallery) and professional way for their clients needs to be met. And they opted for easy on them.

Curious to see responses now....
 
a fairly distant gallery.
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gallery is maybe 8 miles away, a good 15 minute drive.
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####, my commute to work is 12 miles! 8 is right next door! I guess distance is pretty relative.

I've been to the Twin Cities, the loop around the cities is longer than 8 miles, my "close framers" I do work with are 4 (1), 8(3), 25(1) miles away. Bill Henry is "a distant gallery"! If my "artists" showed their work in the other 5 shops around me I would consider them breaking their exclusivity contract.

But good choices. If that works for you then do it. Surprised they'd be willing to lose a client to a better business person and probably a better framer!
 
so glad you came up with a solution that you're comfortable with.

now, about that 'credit,' i know this has nothing to do with you but i'm just curious; will them issuing a credit affect the artist's bottome line???? hmmm...
 
i'm so glad to hear that. as a framer and artist, i've been on both sides. so nice to sell a piece of artwork and really nice to get paid!!!

all's well that ends well...
 
Good solution, Fireframer. Well done.

JoAnn

P.S. I was born in St. Paul but have always lived in WI. Go Vikes! I mean, Packers!
 
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