What would you do??

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Elaine

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Joined
Jul 9, 2001
Posts
1,569
Loc
Skaneateles,NY USA
This is a first time experience for me...

I had a customer, came into the gallery, took two hours to finalize a design (a real pain), we did the work, she came back, raved about it in front of the customers, left, and is now baaacckk...

How would you handle this??

she brought the picture back - no complaints on workmanship, etc. She has decided that she really doesn't like the colors that she and my designer picked out. She wants me to replace the triple mat with new colors - I searched, and I concluded that the combination was a really good design and worked well. The biggest problem, seemed to be that she is "used" to seeing the 43/600 on the bottom with white all around - granted, she made the decision not to have this show in the design process.

so far, I have gotten her to stick with the mats but have taken on the task of opening up the matted area so that she can see the white space around the image - no charge.

What would you do and what policy do you have in place to divert this??? I know, that some people say the customer is always right, but, in this case, this is what she agreed to and has now changed her mind.

Any suggestions welcome.

As always, a new day brings a new challenge!

Thanks

Elaine
 
I would open up the mat, no questions asked and no charge.

I also always recommend showing the artist's signature. If they insisted on covering it, I would still not charge them.

Happy clients keep coming back and spread the word.


Did I tell you what a pleasure it is to hear Kathy complaining about work?

[ 12-01-2003, 08:39 PM: Message edited by: lessafinger ]
 
Elaine,

If you can find the fallouts from that mat job, widening the mat openings shouldn't be much of a problem. Getting the mats apart may be more of a problem depending on how you attached them.

Regarding policy, if the customer has chosen a certain mat combination and has agreed to the job, I would tactfully mention this to them and offer to change the mats to any color they want for the cost of the mats, free fitting, free teardown. That is the MOST I would offer to them. In my shop, they would not get that much of an offer. If the mats were MY choice and they didn't like them when they saw the finished piece, that would be an entirely different matter. But the customer is an adult capable of making informed decisions based on your help and they should take the responsibility for their decisions also.

If this customer brings in a healthy amount of framing annually I would try to make them happy with whatever it takes. But you are looking at a teardown, new mats, complete cleaning before re-assembly, and re-fitting for something that was not your fault nor your decision.

You will never be able to please every customer every time. And, in this instance, it looks like the customer can't even please themself.

Framerguy

Edit:

As Less said, if you can get away with opening up the existing mat openings, I'd do it for no charge but enlighten them on how much they are getting for their money because they made a dum bassed decision and now want to change their mind.

(I get cranky when I have to sit in a waiting room for 3 1/2 hours for a 3 minute examination that included a 6 hour round trip drive!!) GRRRRRRR!!

[ 12-01-2003, 08:48 PM: Message edited by: Framerguy ]
 
Our rule of thumb is that every customer gets one change of mats at no cost to them. It really is sometimes hard to tell exactly how a thing will look when it is all around the image. It is easier for us who have done it, but I cut the customer some slack because it is not always easy for them. But only twice... then there is a regular charge. (We have gone to Third Times the Charm option only once) The tricky part is when they want to change the frame (lots more expense to us)but that wasn't the question was it?
 
The last customer that came back with her frame and said she didn't like the mat colors was more than willing to pay for new mats. After all, she was the one that agreed on the color. After she got it home, it didn't match something in her room that she wanted it to.

I try not to "push" any design just for that reason. If they want me to do the design on my own (most don't), then that is fair to expect a change for free if they don't like it. Shame on me, if I didn't let them see the design befor I finished the job.

But give me a break, how much of a profit can you make if you changed everyones mats at least once for free? Do you pad your prices so that everyone pays some for the extra mat replacements that you do?

I like to make my customers happy, but I also like to pay my bills.
 
I offer a complete satisfaction guarantee. I would replace the mats (and frame if necessary) at no charge. As the majority of my customers have no clue what they really want to frame and mat a piece of art with, I believe it's my job to help them make the decision. It costs less to eat the replacement costs than to advertise and get a new customer. Typically we redo only about three items a year but those three customers keep coming back for more framing.
 
Thanks for your responses!

I think the really funny side to this, is the fact that when I saw the order and saw where the woman had driven from, I asked my designer if she happened to ask the woman how she came to hear about, etc. My designer's response was "because they kicked her out everywhere else" :D
I think, that in general, I was tipped off to the "type" of customer based on the designers' experience and amount of time that it took to satisfy her enough to finalize the design. What I did find interesting, was that she insinuated that she paid a "premium" to have the art framed because we are in "skaneateles" - basically, the only premium she paid was for us framing utilizing best practices and materials and not using cardboard and masking tape.

I did offer to open the mat and refit at no charge, I'm still thinking about complete mat replacement - she actually mentioned she might be moving to Florida and would know today - Framerguy - do you want the referral??? :D

Thanks for your help

I think todays challenge is SNOW and wind

Elaine
 
I would open up the mat and make any other changes no questions asked, no charge and a big smile.


Jack
 
I've been asked to do this maybe a half-dozen times in 27 years and, in each case, did it for no charge.

It's very tempting to try and make the customer feel indebted for this extra service, but I'd recommend against it. If you do it, as others have said, with a smile, they will rave about you forever. If you try to make them feel guilty about it, you might as well charge them for it, 'cause you're probably never going to see them again.

If you know for sure that you have someone who is repeatedly abusing this policy, it's a whole 'nother story.
 
- she actually mentioned she might be moving to Florida and would know today - Framerguy - do you want the referral???

Actually, this could be a very interesting case study in how this customer reacts to 2 entirely different approaches to the same problem and also I would be interested in hearing where the responsibility for those mats actually being there is placed.

Sure, send her around and we can keep a "framing diary" of what occurs.

FGII
 
I wouldn't have a concrete policy. If it is a faithful, loyal customer whom has never asked a favor before....NO CHARGE! If it is someone that consumed tons of my time and still wasn't happy with THEIR decision....at least a nominal TAKEDOWN/REFITTING CHARGE (and then show on their computerized receipt what you did NOT charge them for, as a "favor"). This is the kind of customer that will continue to take advantage of you if they don't realize their is cost involved.
 
We have the 'sympathy discount' for people who don't like something they thought they would. Usually it runs along the lines of, "We'll have to charge you for the materials, but we'll do the labor for free." Often, we discount the materials as well.

I do remember one case where the designer actually told the customer "That really won't look good when it's finished. I don't think you will like it at all. At least make the mat a little wider, or go with a bolder frame."
The customer replied, "But, I don't want to pay any more than that. You're just trying to run up the bill." So we framed it the way she wanted it.
When she picked it up, she took one look at it and said, "That looks AWFUL!" We just looked at her.

Maybe it wasn't good customer policy, but we couldn't help ourselves. No one in the shop was the least bit inclined to be helpful to her. We did finally agree to reframe it at a discount, and she accepted the designer's advice, and was happy with the finished product.
 
Elaine,
Ya gotta play it by ear:
Do you want to encourage this customer to become a repeat offender?
My thoughts are to have a policy that protects you from abuse in such situations with your option to wave policy depending upon the situation.

Do you have a sliding scale fitting fee or other PIA charges for clients that take up 2 hours of your employees time? That is an awfully long time to spend with a customer on a single piece and the time/money continuum doesn't evaporate because they can't make up their mind.

What's to say this particular client is not going to show up on your doorstep in a week or so still not satisfied with the results?

I say protect yourself from abuse but leave wiggle room for you to wave charges for truly deserving clients. If your policy is such that you end up facilitating abusive behavior from the client, you only have yourself to blame.
 
If you do it, as others have said, with a smile, they will rave about you forever.

I really don't believe that this is the normal case in framing. If you do everything to the customer's satisfaction, including reading their minds to see what they are really trying to match in their living room, they will walk away with their framing, hang it, and probably not go out of their way to "rave" about the framer who did the work. They may enjoy the kudos from their friends and family on how nice the piece looks above their couch but, more times than not, there will be little said about the framer who busted his/her hump trying to please that customer. This throwaway society that we have spawned just doesn't put alot of credence on fine workmanship and quality anymore (on the average). This concept is what we would like to believe is still present in our trade, it is a framer's concept not a consumer concept. I don't think that it is as prevelant today as it was 10 or 20 years ago before the advent of "I want it NOW and I want it all in the same place" attitude.

Lets take this back another step. Our customer has chosen a mat combination that is suitable for the framed image, looks good no matter which room in their home it is hung, but the customer brings it back because it doesn't match the colors in their couch.

So you call LJ and tell them the entire story and request some help on buying 3 replacement mats to satisfy your customer. Where do you think you stand with LJ? Would they send you 3 free replacement mats in order to keep YOU as a customer? What do you think their reply to your story would be? Would YOU really expect free replacements on the mats in order to satisfy YOUR customer?

I am not as heartless as this may sound. But I am trying to satisfy those that I think will bring me more work. I am also trying to weed out those customers who may be more of a hindrance to my business than a help. It has to be a judgement call with each and every instance of this nature whether to oblige the customer or cut them loose and focus your efforts on another more "receptive" customer.

Plumbers, electricians, painters, auto mechanics, and most other tradespeople do this as a matter of good business. YOu just don't realize that they have blown you off because you have become a pain in the patooty. They will tell you that they are "booked" up for months and aren't taking in new work, they don't have an opening until (insert date) and can't do the work until then, or "the part is discontinued/out of stock/backordered in hopes that you will shop somewhere else and find another plumber to snake out your drain full of hair and other goop that you pour down there.

I HAVE replaced mats in the past and, just recently, have torn down a new frame package, cut apart a chipped rail, and replaced that rail with a new one for a flaw in the grain that was nobody's fault. It just happened. I made a judgement call to take care of this customer because he is a potential money maker for me. Had it been a PIA customer, I would have repaired the frame and sent them on their way.

(FYI, LJ charged me for the replacement rail, oversized chop at length price, but they didn't donate their product to satisfy MY customer.)

Framerguy
 
I should have qualified my comments with, "In my limited experience . . ."

My point was not to give the shop away, but, if you're going to make concessions, do it pleasantly or don't do it at all.
 
It's intereting to see how some of you have handled this type of situation. I thought about raising a somewhat similar situation about a month ago.

I had a customer who went against my recommendtion on a frame. When she saw the completed piece she liked everything except the frame. Claimed it didn't look the same as the corner sample she selected. I pulled all the samples out that we examined and she decided she preferred a different sample--it was the one I originally recommended.

Well, I redid her job and put the rejected frame in my "open back" inventory. She didn't pay anything extra and was happy. I wasn't particularly pleased about the addition to my inventory, but I figured this was a small price to pay to make a new customer happy. She's been back a few times.

I did have another situation that I handled differently. Young doctor and stunning new bride bring in four pieces to be framed. He seems like a pretty nice guy. She's a princess, smart as a bag of beans, and probably pampered for her entire life.

Price is not a big issue for this couple. Doc wants to make his bride happy and wants "good taste" in the framing. The art: a van gough production poster-print; an Italian sidewalk vendor oil; a print on rice paper that was a gift from his parents (probably purchased in an airport gift shop); and a poster. Got frames and mats selected for three of the pieces in about 45 minutes. Went with my recommendations except for the glass--he wanted museum glass cause he heard it was the best.

After about two more hours they agreed on a nasty combination for the van gough. They had looked at virtually every mat/frame combination possible. They had turned down my recommendation that we do away with the screaming "Van Gough" lettering at the bottom of the poster, and they rejected my suggestions for mats and frame. They asked me for my opinion of their selection. Told them that I thought they would not be happy when they saw the completed product. I was right.

They loved the first three pieces; hated the Van Gough. Apparently the bride had consulted with her sister and was informed that "no one in New York" would have kept the lettering "because people with taste would know the artist is Van Gough."

Well, I ended up doing this piece two more times. I didn't like the new selection(and told them so), but the first redo was done at my cost. The second redo (still very nasty) was priced at the normal cost.

The lovely couple basically ended up paying
twice for the job. They consumed a tremendous amount of time; she insisted on a rush for the redo efforts so they could hang the art in their new home in time for their Christmas party. She called almost every day to see if it was done. Screamed a couple times. I am sure they would have changed the second redo if they weren't charged for it.

Some customers are worth making sure they leave happy. Some customers are too expensive to keep.
 
This is a very interesting thread. So far, we've been lucky and this hasn't happened yet, but I am sure it's only a matter of time before it does.

We use LifeSaver here at the shop, and on all of our customer receipts as well as the work order copies, there are three "disclaimers" printed. One specifically states "I agree to the materials, design, and price for this project. Please proceed with this order." Then there's a line for the customer to sign. Mike's been harping on me to start getting the customer's to sign off on every order, but for whatever reason, be it stupidity or plain stubborness, I have been very resistant to doing so.

One of these days I am sure it will come back and bite me in the butt, but I am curious about just how much you can enforce the issue ("See? You signed here okaying the design. I can change it for you, but it will cost $x for the new mats/frame/glass, plus $x for labor."). Do any of you folks do something similar, and if so, how does that work for you in keeping this type of thing from happening to you? Or is it yet another thing that sounds good in theory, but harder to implement?
 
Andrew--

It's great in theory to get the customer to sign, but what do you do when they come in excited to pick up their framed art and you can see immediately they are not satisfied?

In my first example, the customer was a new grandmother. The art was a picture of her 8-month old grandaughter. Her daughter had lost her first child.

The grandmother had never considered custom framing prior to walking into my shop a few weeks earlier looking for a ready-made frame. She bought one of my open backs and double mats. I mounted and fitted the piece, and she said she would be back with something special for her first custome frame. She did come back and put a deposit on a $250.00 frame and mats for an 8x10 photograph.

When she came to pick up the work she just didn't like the frame. She was distressed because she knew it was her selection, not the one I recommended. She works two jobs and this was a lot of money to her. Maybe I should have said this is not my problem, but I like happy customers.

She would have paid up if I insisted and walked away with a framed photograph that would trouble her every time she looked at it.

Yea, somtimes I'm a softy. I hated to do this over and eat the cost of the frame. I'll eventually sell it, donate it or do something to recover my money. But the important thing for me was to do my best to make my customer happy so she would return and buy again.

She has come back, and I know she has told some of her friends that they will be treated well if they bring their work to me. I've got two jobs in the shop now from two similarly aged and situated women who were referred. They didn't say who referred them, but I bet it was the grandmother.
 
I have a policy that if the customer isn't happy with the color of mats for any reason I will redo the mats once at no charge(not the frame). But first we asked them to take it home and live with it for a month before redoing it. I give them a 2 month window to avoid someone redecorating at my expense. In 11 years I have only had to redo one. An unhappy customer will not come back so I do my best to make them happy.

If the customer has gone against my judgment on color combo's and they don't take my advise during the design process I tell them up front that I will frame the picture their way but will not guarantee the outcome and the satisfaction guarantee will not be honored.

[ 12-02-2003, 05:10 PM: Message edited by: P. Kotnour ]
 
Re-doing work gratis, regardless of whose fault, seems to be a sound framing business practice. But on another level, if you will, there is something quite special about a customer's delight (and maybe 'delight' is too mild a word in many cases) at first seeing the finished product. When this doesn't happen, we should know why and fix it. There is kharma in retail!
 
The Grumble has done it to me again.

I respond to this thread yesterday, and what happens first thing today? A customer brought back two pieces that I did a couple weeks ago and thinks I put the wrong mats on each.(Transposed)

These are not real big items and I very well could have marked the ticket with the wrong mat numbers.(I doubt it)

So, being the nice guy that I am, I will replace the mats, NO CHARGE. She said that she would be willing to pay for the new mats, but I want to make her experience with me a pleasant one.

Next time I respond to a thread, it will be about winning the lotto. :D
 
I think that it's best to redo such a piece at no charge even if the customer was determined that the signature, etc. should not show. If they're happy with the piece when it's finished the second time, the next order they will bring you will contain more profit than the additional charges to redo the piece. I always try to remind myself that I (hopefully) have more framing experience than my clients. Their errors in selection can be forgiven. Just playing the devil's advocate for a minute... shouldn't we be pricing everything from the start so that we're still making money if we have to redo a triple mat? Granted it's less money, but still profit.
 
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