Question What is your default Hanger for a 39" x 52" Frame?

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monkey

monkey

CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2
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If you haven't discussed it with the customer and can't get a hold of them what type of hanger would you use on a 39" x 52" Frame?

I just finishing up a rush job for this really nice customer, who is also new. A large map framed with Larson Juhl 456351, Anti-Reflection Glass, 3/16" foamcore, and mat: Overall O.D. of frame is 39" x 52". I'm debating on what type of hanger to use, 3-hole Strap Hanger or Super Steel II with Super ZERLON #6 wire.

I didn't get a chance to discuss what type fo hanger he wanted because he was in big rush to pick up his kids and I haven't been able to get a hold of him. He is due to pick up his order this evening.

For something this size I feel more comfortable using the 3-Hole Strap Hangers. But some customers in the past have complain about the Strap Hangers because it is too difficult for them to hang and they insist on a wire, and depending on the frame SOMETIMES I would swap it out with a heavy duty wire.

Also, can you use the 50 lb courtesy hangers with the Strap Hangers?
 
monkey said:
...

Also, can you use the 50 lb courtesy hangers with the Strap Hangers?
Click to expand...

Yes you can. Just make sure the strap hangers are in far enough so that the hook doesn't show.

My preference on such a piece would be WallBuddies.
 
Whether you choose WallBuddies, Fletcher Wireless, Hangman, two D-rings, or any other two-point hanging system, it would provide better support and less stress on the frame than would a wire. Z-Bar would be a good choice, as well.
 
thanks for the quick response guys.

I agree, the two point hanging system would be the best. I guess what I'm concern with is that the customer may be expecting a wire and if I put a two point hanging system they may not know how to hang it properly and have to now hire a hanging service. Or should I not worry about that? Maybe I'm overthinking this.
 
I have a caution label on the back of large frames without wires. It states that due to the size and weight and size of the frame, hanging directly from "D hooks" is the recommended method of handing onto a wall vs a wire spanning the width of the frame.
 
Depending on the weight of the frame, I'd use either three
hole d-ring straphangers or Z-Bar. We've gotten in frames
with these D-ring hangers where they're almost halfway
down the side, usually from furniture stores. When we
put them on, they're up near the top, just a few inches
down.

About the 50 pound hangers, they'd probably be fine,
but sometimes I go ahead and use the 75 pound just to
be safe. While we're on the subject, has anyone here
noticed that sometimes the nails on the 50 pound ones
seem to want to work out of the wall? Not with D-rings,
but with wire hangers? I think I noticed that a couple of
times in years past when we used a wire with two of the
50 pound ones spaced apart on the wall.
 
This brings up a good question...

What is the 50lbs rating on hooks based on? Would they actually work for 50lbs frames? ...and does that include just into normal drywall and plaster, or only into studs?
 
I framed a large jersey not too long ago, around the size you mentioned. Customer wanted a wire.
I used my #8 wire, double twisted (does that make sense?) to create extra thick cable.
I did NOT include hooks with this job; it would be better to use screws into stud anyway.
I think the 'ratings' are a bit useless anyway; you don't know what kind of wall it is. I am sure the 50# hanger might support a 50lbs piece; the nail can still get out of the wall though.
 
Ylva said:
I did NOT include hooks with this job; it would be better to use screws into stud anyway.
Click to expand...

Is there any concern about the threads of a screw/anchor cutting into the wire, with that much constant pressure?
 
I did think about that; but am wondering about that though. It would be different if the piece was constantly moving; rubbing against the screw.

No matter what; I always advise those customers to check the wires once in a while and also state that on the dustcover.
 
cjmst3k said:
Is there any concern about the threads of a screw/anchor cutting into the wire, with that much constant pressure?
Click to expand...

I've had it happen to me. I was checking out the framing on a poster at a friend's house and re hung it on the same screw that it was hanging on before. A few hours later the wire broke right at the point where it was resting on the screw. I'm pretty sure it was the threads on the screw that cut through the wire.

James
 
monkey said:
t...if I put a two point hanging system they may not know how to hang it properly and have to now hire a hanging service. Or should I not worry about that?
Click to expand...

Of course you should worry about that. Losing a couple of nights' sleep is usually appropriate, but if you stare at the ceiling for a week or more, you're probably overdoing it.

Seriously, you can provide your customer an important service by explaining how to hang the frame properly. Using a two-point hanging system is not rocket science. A 30-second demonstration when the customer picks up the frame usually puts the apprehension (theirs and yours) to rest.

By the way, a large frame with a wire should always hang from two wall attachments, too.
 
cjmst3k said:
What is the 50lbs rating on hooks based on? Would they actually work for 50lbs frames? ...and does that include just into normal drywall and plaster, or only into studs?
Click to expand...

The rating is based on the strength of the hook. Not the wall. Not the wire. Not the frame. Just the hook.

Strength ratings of wall hooks are generally useless, because the wall hooks almost never fail. The point of failure usually is wall material that has been weakened by previous hangings and patchings, or the wire, or its attachment to the frame.

I suggest using something better than a wire or, if you must use a wire, use two wall attachments.
 
Jim Miller said:
The rating is based on the strength of the hook. Not the wall. Not the wire. Not the frame. Just the hook.

Strength ratings of wall hooks are generally useless, because the wall hooks almost never fail. The point of failure usually is wall material that has been weakened by previous hangings and patchings, or the wire, or its attachment to the frame.

I suggest using something better than a wire or, if you must use a wire, use two wall attachments.
Click to expand...


I had a picture fall in my gallery with a 30lbs brass hook. The hook was intact but the nail in the hook somehow tilted down and the drywall let go. I'm guessing it was a failure of the wall, but it got me thinking about how well they are designed to keep the nail pointing down (to grab in the wall) and whether they needed to be in a stud, etc. In a 50lbs hook there are 2 nails, and in a 75lbs hook there are three nails, so the quantity of nails are based on the weight rating... whether arbitrarily there or not.
 
shayla said:
We've gotten in frames with these D-ring hangers where they're almost halfway down the side, usually from furniture stores. When we put them on, they're up near the top, just a few inches down.
Click to expand...

Same here. Which begs the question: What is the best way to determine how far down the side rails to locate the ring hangers?
:cool: Rick
 
The brass hooks with the hardened steel nail are my wall hooks of choice. When properly put in they will support a lot of weight with very little wall damage.

If you notice, the 20lb and 30lb hooks use the same one nail only for the wall. This is because the weight is actually, to a large degree, carried by the plate of the hanger being pushed against the wall, not the nail itself.

The rating is for that amount of weight on good quality drywall and properly installed, but I always go one size up for safety.

As Jim said, two point hanging is always better, but in a gallery setting I only use one hook for convenience unless it is the artwork is long and horizontal. We change our artwork around on a constant basis so one hook is much easier to work with. In a home or corporate setting I always advise two hooks if using wire except for relatively small or vertical works.
 
Either LJ's Larson Juhl Premium Picture Hangers (pg 47 in my pricer) or
from Ziabicki Import:

http://www.ziabicki.com/
 
I am a big fan of cleats or z bars for large, heavy frames. You can be assured of being able to screw deeply into 2 studs using this method.

I have never trusted hangers that rely on the strength of the wall. But I am in an area where the housing stock is quite old. A good percentage of it is old plaster & oak lathe. But there is also a lot of 1/4" (not a typo) drywall...and much of that is on 24" centers. yuck.
 
I did an installation at a new gorgeous home with a million dollar view of a local
inland lake the other weekend. Thought my brass hangers would work well... NOT! The builder used some of the defective drywall that was coming out of China. The poor Doc who owns the home needs to talk to his builder. What a nightmare!

I ended up using anchor bolts because the drywall was mush. Even then I had a hard time securing them.
 
It's well to advise the customer at the outset that hanging the thing on their wall is not going to be just a case of banging a nail in. On heavy frames I favor attaching wooden a batten to the back of the frame which mates with a similar one fixed securely to the wall. Rather like Z-Bars (which aren't readily gettable over here). This is quite a simple and very safe system, but it does need a modicum of DIY skill (and a hammer drill in most cases). Most people could manage this or know a local handyman who will do it. Sometimes I have done this for customers, but only ones who fall into the 'friend' category. Providing this service to all and sundry is fraught with danger without getting suitable insurance pinned down before you start attacking people's walls. :icon21:
 
prospero said:
On heavy frames I favor attaching wooden a batten to the back of the frame which mates with a similar one fixed securely to the wall. Rather like Z-Bars (which aren't readily gettable over here).
Click to expand...

That's what we call a "French Cleat" over here in the USA. I guess it's OK if you can't get Z-Bars, since you're closer to France.:icon11:
 
Why do the French think they invented everything? Everyone knows it was the Chinese......

(Pity the Chinese didn't invent a camera, then they could prove it.)
 
This discussion of hanging method should be discussed with the client during the design process. Really, how obvious can it get that a 30x40 artwork getting a 4" mat, a 3" frame, and glazing of ANY sort, will require an appropriately considered hanging method??

This is where the framer/designer might want to consider offering of installation services (whether in-house, or jobbed out).

2-point, or cleat-type hanging are the superior methods for hanging ANYTHING-----as others have already said.
Even relatively small pcs, though possibly more conveniently hung by wire by one point, is a poor method. For one thing, because they are lighter, they will move more readily from doors closing, breezes, cleaning, etc. They will therefore have problems staying level. They will also put greater stress on the wire and the other hanging hardware AND the frame. A 2-point WITH the wire is better, as Jim stated, but WHY would you? There are of course VERY narrow-core frames that require some special considerations. Sure, tall stem mldgs can/should be completed with a strainer, and thus the hardware can then be attached to the strainer, but the tiny frames need tiny hardware. A wall-buddy or 2 sawtooth system would be best. I wonder if anyone makes a tiny z-type-cleat with holes to accomodate #4----or even #2 screws, hmmmm? THAT might solve the potential problems these exceedingly micro-frames present, huh?

Sorry for rambling....
 
I agree that the construction quality of new homes (even upscale ones) tends to be generally atrocious. That 1/4" drywall on 24" centers is about the worst I've heard of. How can that meet code? Wouldn't want to be living in that house if a strong wind comes along. I'm happy to live in a house built in 1954 (as was I), when two-by-fours were actually 2" x 4" and builders knew how to do proper plaster.
:cool: Rick

P.S. To repeat my earlier question, what is the proper way to determine how far down the side rails to locate ring or strap hangers? Depending on the size of the frame, I usually put them about 3 to 4.5 inches down from the top.
 
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