WHAT IS THE SOCIAL COST YOU PAID TO GET / BE IN BUSINESS?

Whynot

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Joined
Dec 16, 2000
Posts
1,277
Loc
North-East US
And this, Mike willing, may become a statistically measurable cost one day. But first let's build a common language in this area.

A few days ago Don (DA) was considering his likely divorce as a price to pay for going into his own framing business and that reminded me that I paid that price myself to remain in business and that others (wittingly or not) may have lost or sacrificed other valuable family or social ties, not to mention their health, for the same reason.
We talked of sufficient or insufficient capital, of COG and profit; we went as far as to admit passion, pride, even addiction to what we are doing. Some are in for money, others for self employment or in search for a certain way of living but, in my opinion, he who is not aware of paying -one way or the other- the price I am talking of in here is lying to himself, doing it as a hobby, or being extremely lucky. Before admitting the last, ask those who knew you before becoming a business person, deal?

I wish that we don't rush to answer this topic with easy found platitudes like "you run the business, don't let business run you" because this would be just a pious desideratum with very limited application for not-so-busy-well-married-one-man-business owners only. Counting on spouse's steady income to pad for hurdles in his one’s little business is not very instructive, though it might be relevant for this industry (?).
 
What a fascinating topic for a thread, Cornel! It will be interesting to see what people come up with.
One that comes to me right away is that I have very strong feelings about political matters and about some of the directions in which our country is going. I would really like to be more involved in the process and in public discussion of issues. However, I know I would be alienating one half of my clientele on subjects about which people are pretty polarized these days. In a business that depends on personal relationships this could be risky, so I pretty much keep these things to myself unless I'm "preaching to the choir".
That's a price to pay.

kaffeetrinker_2.gif
Rick
Thanks again for starting this topic.
 
I have been open for just under 2 years. I have worked in shops that were the owners entire reason for living. I decided early on that I would not go that route no matter what.

I am moderately busy and have so far been able to keep things running smoothly (mostly) in personal and professional life.

I think if you have to chose between your store and your spouse ( no disrespect intended ) then you might have chosen poorly in both your choice of spouse and business if you must chose one.

My marriage is in every meaning a partnership. She doesn't get into the day to day running of the shop but I keep her up to date on things and include her in a fair amount of decisions. She is my sounding board, cheerleader, voice of reason and a million other things when I need her to be.

My shop at best may be around to see my family into retirement, it is my hope my wife will be around for much longer and has already given me more than any job or business could by way of my little one Emily.

There has been tough times in opening the shop and probably many more ahead but instead of causing a rift, it has gotten us to face the problems as a team relying on eachothers strengths depending on the problems.

We all make our choices for various reasons, I am very happy with mine. If my business fails so be it. We can move on. If my marriage failed the recovery would take much longer if ever.

I don't live to work ...(pardon the phrase) I work to live. If money is tight we cut back until things pick up. If things were to get real bad I would close up shop before I would walk away to the life commitment that I made.

I don't know anyone elses situation on the Grumble, I only know mine. What ever choices you make I hope they are what is best for you.

(I hope this doesn't seem to preachy, sappy, or judgemental. After rereading what I wrote I hope it comes across for what it is, my honest answer to a question)

Good luck in whatever comes your way!
 
Norm,

For the record, I didn't necessarily imply that one must choose between his business and his wife. In fact very few businesses would ever take off the ground without complete family support. But in the process things may grow apart and, regardless who's more to blame, divorce may be ultimately blamed on business.
You talk like a one man business owner. Some of us are larger business entities and, when one feels solely responsible for his workers’ well–being, his clients’ and his own reputation, if a sacrifice must be made, he may find neglecting and sacrificing himself and his family first... Not that he's sadist, but he knows that if he's got no other choice but hurt one party, family would more readily forgive him than his workers or clients. The individual size of any such “sacrifice” is not large enough to alienate people and sink the boat. But the added strain would eventually do it.
Besides, when you fall off a chair is different than when you fall off the roof. The damage is larger and the recovery time is longer. From a certain altitude you look at failures with less indulgent eyes.
 
Whynot,

"The individual size of any such “sacrifice” is not large enough to alienate people and sink the boat. The added strain would eventually do it. "

Very well said. You are right I am a one shop owner and I have lots to learn.

I complement you on your posts, well written and thought provoking.

You are right in almost every thing that you wrote except for one thing...Norm is my dog.(ha)

Take care and thanks for an interesting thread I will try to follow.
 
Owning a business has changed the dynamics of every relationship I have. It is very hard to let it go at the end of the day. I think the biz is on my mind 24/7. I think even if it were a thriving business it would still be the same. It constantly needs to be fed.

I am a lot less available than I was before owning a business. At first I seemed to have lots of support from everybody. Then it seemed like everybody abandoned me. But, then I came to realize I bought a business and they didn't. If anything, I abandoned them. It changes your life for sure. As you change your interests change and you just start gravitating towards other things.

I have a friend who moved away 5 years ago. I wrote her and told her how sorry I was about my spotty contact. I told her she could still be living down the street from me and I bet she would have heard from me as often as she has living elsewhere.

It hasn't been all negative changes though. I have also enriched my life with learning to run a business and with getting to know others who run business's.

There is definitely a balance that needs to be reached for sure. I ain't there yet.
 
My wife and business partner tells me that I have absolutely no balance in my life! All work and no play she says. But I have always been like that. I was like it when I worked as an executive with a well known corporation (e.g. only 3 weekends not worked in one particular 5 year stretch, family vacations not attended, etc.). I am like it now that I own and operate a busy framing business. In the last couple of years I doubt that there's been more than a handful of days that I have not been in my workshop. And even when I have stayed away I have been pondering business or technical issues.

What's my point?

The time spent working (and hence "sacrifice") has more to do with personal mindset than anything else. Admitted many small business owners work more hours than "average" employees, but my guess is that it's their mindset that has led them to operate that way rather than the method by which they choose to be remunerated.

Bottom line if you enjoy what you are doing it doesn't feel like work. And I enjoy what I do. Thank goodness my partner has enough independence to do her own thing when I'm refusing (failing?) to take personal time off.
 
Cornel,
Not a day goes ny that I don't think of what being a small business owner has cost me. BUT, it is hard to think of those without being reminded of the trade-offs. There have been so many benefits associated with this way of making a living.

I started this business when I was 27 and had talked about it for at least five years prior. My mom says I always talked about being self-employed. Guess I was unemployable from the very start...

So, I don't really know of anyone who knew the Edie who was NOT self-employed. I don't know if being a small biz owner merely changed me- indeed it has made me who I am. The boyfriends and friends know this about me up front. The business has been a stable presence in my life- much more so than many of my relationships (until now.)

This business has also brought me into a new relationship with my family. Both of my parents work here to help me and it has been very wonderfully eye-opening to see how well our working relationships function. My parents built two houses while I was growing up and we got very good at tackling big projects together. Running a business, assembling frames, working with customers, etc. are all just more big projects to take one step at a time. I feel absolutely spoiled that I get to know them this way. This business has made our very tight family even tighter. I wouldn't have wanted to miss that given the option.

There have been costs. I marvel at the benefits that folks with 'real jobs' have- paid health insurance, vacations without cell phones, worker's comp., unemployment, regular hours, etc., but then I see that trade-off again and, well, it ain't for me.

Did I answer the kwestion?

edie illthinkaboutit goddess
 
I am a one person operation. I am open 71 hours a week and love every moment of it! OK 99% ;) No I do not have time to go shopping, meet with friends, or have a relationship, but I am happy. It works for me. When I was married my wife referred to my business as "The Other Woman". She was right. I still have the business.
icon21.gif
When I was not at work my mind was. This is what makes me happy. People that have not been self employeed do not understand the mixture of fear and bliss that we go thru.

All I can say is that I hope everyone on The Grumle can enjoy their jobs as much as I do mine!!
thumbsup.gif
 
Cornel et al; recent events have caused me to be a little more truthfull about why I am in business and what doing so cost OTHERS around me and why.

I started out with the concept that this would be something that my wife and I could do togetehr in our old days. I even had visions of includeing the children and maybe even other memebers of my immediate family. The biggest error was I didn't ask any of them if they had the same DREAM. This was especially true of Marie, my wife, who supported my DREAM in more ways than one.

Still another fatal error I made ,that cost Marie and others ,was that I spent most of my time and efforts seeking the personal praise for the quality of my work and not learning how to make what I did profitable so that I and those around me could one day work LESS not more.

I was so busy trying to win competitions and enjoying the compliments of clients that I failed to see that I wasn't running my business profitably. My philosophy was not to work smarter and there by less but to do more and spend longer hours at it.

When Marie needed surgery and couldn't be at the shop I tried to bluff my way through it saying I could get things done until she returned. I never once realized maybe she didn't want to and all she ever was doing was allowing me to chase after my visions of grandure.

Well Katrina took it all away and now I have to admitt that I didn't even have the good business since to know what my insurance policy covered. But most of all I now have to admitt that the only thing that kept me in Business was Marie and her willingness to pay any price to allow me to feel important,both in dollars and with her mental and physical health.

I say this because just today I was feeling depressed to realize how others had started recovering from the disaster and I haven't even begun. But Marie spoke right up and said "Don't worry YOU"LL have YOUR shop again" Only to have me admitt that haveing a shop that didn't pay for itself was a total failure and what I should have learned was how to run a shop that was an asset to her and everyone else around me,instaed of a drain ,both physically and monetarily.

I can't help but wonder if GOD is useing this horrific disaster to show me the error of my ways.

I promise I will not open another Framing shop unless I can make it a BUSINESS and not an EGO TRIP that all my love ones pay for.

While that isn't a divorce story it is IMHO very similar ,don't you think ?And maybe now I have told you why I feel reluctant to consider myself in the same league as most of you .
BUDDY
 
Hi Buddy -

That is a very poignant post. I'm sure there is some truth in it, but it also sounds like you are just plain worn out, stressed and depressed, and I am so sorry for that. So much in life is subjective, and I bet you would put a different interpretation on all of the objective events you describe, if you were in a better place. Cause I can read all you have written and put a good spin on those events.

1)You have (had?) a dream. Well that counts for a lot! I can think of a lot of wives who would LOVE for their husband to have one.

2) Every wife that I know wants her husband to have an occupation - think of all those women whose husbands are newly retired who say they would collect bottles on the street to pay for their golf club dues if they needed to. This is only part way a joke! Every minute you were in the store, you were not getting in Marie's way in the kitchen or elsewhere as so many of those new retirees do.

3) What's wrong with liking the praise??? Especially well deserved praise ;) It sure helps me get through my day. It would be a sad person who ran a profitable business but never got a compliment or made friends through it. This is not ego trip, this is being a nice person, who feels good when they can help others, and make others happy.

4) I'm not much on God, but no God I can imagine would wreak such a natural disaster to teach you a lesson. Now, if you can draw a lesson from one of life's curveballs, that's a different matter.

5) All I can gather from your post objectivly, is that if you all decide to re-open a frame shop, you might benefit from a business manager, and that might not be Marie. And this is not unique to you - when you find one, send 'em my way!

Whatever you and your family decide to do in the future is, of course, up to you and your family. But please don't make important decisions when you are feeling so low. You have a wife and family who love you, so that means you're in a better league than many people, and you have design and "people" talents that many would envy.

I hope you feel better real soon, and that rotten insurance will come through quickly.

Rebecca
 
Thanks Rebecca but that wasn't what I posted for. I have been troubled by a lot of those thoughts for some time now. And before my religious beliefs get really misinterpeted,I don't think GOD punishes anyone ,not even me. But I do belive HE can utilize even a disaster like this to teach a BUNCH of people what they where doing wrong and what is REALY IMPORTANT and why.

I was trying to tell others not to make the same self centered mistakes I made. And while we are at it ,on a more practal point ,I hope all of you will read and re-read the water exclusions in the Frame-it/CAPAX/Hartford BOP insurance policies. Water of any kind could exclude any insurance payment ,which is another tip I have learned the hard way.
BUDDY
 
Oh I hear you about the water. We are at sea level, on a flood plain (though protected by geography and a dike). I tried to get flood insurance and was told that it didn't exist. I pushed and pushed, but they didn't budge.

I have a kind of evacuation plan in place, which consists of loading up the art right quick and visiting friends at higher elevations.

Best,

Rebecca
 
Hey Buddy, Always listen to Rebecca, she's, like, probably the smartest person on the grumble. Probably even smarter than Baer and Ron put together. No one could be prepared for the kind of experience you've been through. It's a too long road but you're on your way back.
 
Buddy,


I've been browsing 'the grumble' for years now and only recently started commenting. And it was because I didn't consider myself in the same league as most of those here that I hesitated to participate. I've put a fair share of time and money into my home-based business, but nothing compared to what most people here have done. And I haven't really risked much by working from home. If push comes to shove I can just go get a regular job.

But I believe all of our endeavors are important because our intentions are good, whether it's doing something that we love or realizing the dream of owning a business.

Some of us are better business persons than others. And at the end of the day, that may be the most important difference. I don't know.

Pride, anger, fear, greed, any or all of these might affect us as we strive to build a more promising future for ourselves or the ones we love. But no matter what happens, even if we put those we love through some challenging situations. As long as they understand that we did it mostly out of love, they'll readily forgive us our faults.

I'm still not sure how I'm going to proceed with regard to pursuing a framing business. I'm still contemplating the matter. But if my marriage fails, it won't be because of the business endeavor. It will be because of the lack of understanding between me and my wife. I hesitate to say that it would be because of a lack of love between us. That would be a much sadder conclusion. And I'm not quite ready for that.


Don
 
"What is the social cost you paid to be in business?"

I have been guilty of confusing the "real" and "perceived" social costs of owning a business. There are times when you need to be in two or three places at the same time (especially if you are a parent). I think we are often guilty of greasing the squeaky wheel instead of stepping back and thinking which decision will be the one that matters in 10 years.

That slowly building resentment can be deadly silent.
 
What a powerful discussion. The honesty is almost painful to read, but it's the real thing. I don't think I've ever seen a more important topic on the Grumble.
 
Failure (and financial ruin) is not an option.

But its possibility and consequences, whether family related or social, are always on my mind, like a raven on the wall, watching.

Many times I think I shouldn't be in a relationship lest I subject those who care for me to the consequences.

And not having a family or wife to provide mental or financial support is both frightening and a reason to persevere.
 
The coming Holiday season reminds me of one social cost. I miss the parties and the invites that quit coming because we were too busy or too tired to attend.
 
Most of you know that Charles and I divorced. My framing business had nothing to do w/it (in my opinion. Charles may feel different)

My business has put me in many different situations I would have never gotten into. I have become friends w/people who were just "customers" in the beginning. I'm included in alot of social events that contacts through my business have brought on. I "date" (hate that word) several of the men that began as my customers. I network w/several business owners downtown and in neighboring counties that have taught me alot. My son has recently told me how much he respects my work ethics and people skills. I have a better sense of who I am due to my staying power and problem solving in running a business. My employees seem to enjoy coming to work. I don't have any turnover (hope I'm not jinxing myself here).

The down side of being a frame shop business owner are the deadlines, paperwork, physical exhaustion during the busy months and lack of time to pursue other interests, lack of funds to open other businesses that I know would do well in this area. I grew up in a small town business and knew the hours that a business owner puts in to growing their business. I have alot more respect for my dad and the energy level he commited to his retail business.

But, the number one "thing" that has come from my business that means the ABSOLUTE most to me is my best friend. Without my business, I would have never gotten to know her and established the roots of such a friendship. I've always heard you can count your true friends on one hand. I know for a fact, I can count my TRUE friends on one finger.
 
I suspect that this might be another "misunderstood" post, but, I think we are all responsible for the path we choose.

We carry a great poster that says something about a father and son and how no one will care how much money someone has if they don't spend time with their son (I am paraphrasing)It's called Priorities

And it is all about Priorities

We are pretty fortunate in that we have been able to become financially comfortable. That allows for a lot of "freedom" to exercise those Priorities

How many have burdened themselves into an "indentured servitude" scenario where they have to work 71 hours a week to simply keep the doors open so they may a job?

It's not the job,it's the person

I suspect that many of us might become an assistant manager and Wendy's at make more money,have more time off and a medical plan better than present.

But, it is the choices we all make and we are responsible for our choices

This past week my mother-in-law was to be discharged (she is 70ish)from the hospital (knee replacement surgey) on Tuesday. Her husband (also 70ish) was picking her up when he became sick (I won't go into details)and was taken to the emergency room. Momma-in-law was readmitted and we were called.

We were able to get to the hospital that night and Wednesday,we took Momma-in-law home and my wife stayed with her. Now, for those that know my wife, know that Wednesdays is the day that is reserved to spend time with the grandkids and that is pretty sacred.

So,we got her home, got her prescriptions, arranged al the things that are needed (Betty can probably add to the list,because it is longer).

Now, my wife has three sisters that also live in the Phoenix area. One is a regular employee, one is a stay at home mother and one is a "self-employeed" piano teacher

Guess which ones couldn't "get away" from their responsibilities/work?

Who is paying the higher "costs"?

I am thankful that we have the staffs that allow us the ability to do what we need to do. And, I am so proud of my wife stepping up.

So, I think we are gaining the higher "rewards" that our choices have created

In essence, it's not the job, it's the person that makes those decisions. I am responsible for every decision I make

Father-in-law is still in the hospital and we simply have no idea how long he will be in.

But, I am convince that the busier we are, the better we run our lives. Talk about Priorities?

Measure your time wisely, use it effectively and everything will get done

See, I even have time to spend 30 minutes here
 
Well said, Bob.

I have a sis that owned her own business for years and could never take a day off. She has sold that business and now works for someone else, but she is the "only one" that can do what she does, so she never takes a day off.

She is a widow with grown children, and can never find time from her job to come up for a visit. I'm sorry, but I resent that, and honestly it's beginning to take it's toll on our relationship.

I love what I do, and I am so lucky to have found something that I enjoy. But, having been on the other side of the coin now for several years with her, I try hard to keep my priorities in balance. Sometimes that takes an effort, because I think everyone in my family is predisposed to be workaholics. but doesn't everything have a cost? A relationship has costs just like a business does.

And I agree, it is not the job--it is the person.
 
Originally posted by Bob Carter:
But, I am convince that the busier we are, the better we run our lives. Talk about Priorities?

Measure your time wisely, use it effectively and everything will get done

See, I even have time to spend 30 minutes here
I imagine a very, very old Bob Carter all dressed up, ready to go, impatiently fidgeting about because his own Death is running late for the meeting.

Bob, your savant art of timing and prioritizing isn’t innate, is it? You are more efficient than most of us, but you too pay a HEAVY social price to stay in business because, if nothing else, I don’t believe that Wednesday is always the only good day for spending time with your grand children. It is more likely the only one left and it is always the same day as to avoid messing with MANY more other pressing business related duties of yours.
Business is more central to your life than you would like to admit it. It takes time, minds, compulsive hard working, devotion and many sacrifices to become that good at running it as you are.

I believe that we do pay a social price for being in business that regular people don't. Not that the other people don't ever divorce, break down and run against the clock, but with us those are professional afflictions, not pure hazard or the result of some otherwise frivolous occurrences.
 
Not to be political at all. PLEASE, I found that I loved what I was doing, hated quitting at the end of the business day because there was always more to be done so I worked very long hours. I found that men are applauded for working long hours, they are supporting their families, but women are neglecting theirs. The pull was very hard.

Running your own business teaches more than just about anything else can and develops and uses just about every talent a person might have. It also quickly shows your weaknesses
 
My social and family life have remained intact after 20 years of owning a business. I knew my priorities, and the business, though important, was not the first one.

I wish someone had told me the physical cost I would now be paying for 36 years of standing, and 25 years of bending over my work. Not worth it.
 
This is not Tom, but his wife here... When we started our shop ten years ago, we made a promise to each other that this was a business we were starting, and that if it ever began to interfer with our relationship, that we would quit the business. Ten years later and we and it are going strong! However, we both grew up in family-run businesses and could see first hand the potential disasters that can strike in regards to personal relationships. My parents both worked themselves to death (literally) and it ruined their marriage. Whether it was pride or fear or whatever the cause, they could not look past what their business was and see the cost they were paying for it. I swore to myself as a child I would never be in business. But as they say, the apple doesn't fall far from the tree... Hopefully, I am much wiser in my choices. Bob put it quite well when he said it was "priorities". We close for at leaste a week twice a year - plus a day or two here or there, for vacation time. The most time off my parents ever took was about 3 days a year (if that sometimes). My family comes first, the money will always come from somewhere. I've always held the belief that our time is the only thing we really have here on Earth, and it's how you spend it that really matters. All that said, I don't have as much time for friends as I once did - but then again, we started our business in a new town, in a new state and all of my real friends live far away. It takes time to build new friendships. However, I do have many wonderfull associates whose company I enjoy.
 
Well said indeed, Ms. Houston!
 
Back
Top