What happened to the $75 Bread and Butter jobs?

[Baer Charlton]

Today was "one of those days" where you keep looking up to make sure the door is unlocked and the "open" is lit.

Actually we didn't expect much business today, the sun was out. (In Portland speak, that says volumes)

So we were crunching numbers and doing comps for past years and weighing whether to ever stock Non-glare in any size ever again..... we're not.

Turned out that our Regular glass gross profit was $5 less than CC, and so Reg will only be stocked in the sizes we have stock frames in....

Which lead to an interesting number crunch... 1998 vs 2006, Bread & Butter frame jobs.

For those you didn't take Stats in college.... "the average ticket" is not always the same as "the mean ticket".

If you do 4 jobs at $25 and 1 job at $500 your "average ticket" is $25+$25+$25+$25+$500 = $600 divided by 5 jobs = $120. This looks good.... but your "mean" ticket is $25.

The mean ticket price is sometimes much more telling about your business and what you really do, than your average ticket.

One big closed corner, or a framed rug, or 3'x5' flag with OP3Museum can really throw a misguiding wrench into a month of $64 quick fits in ready mades. So our computer guru worked up a macro that fields all the data and graphs it so we can see where our mean and average are. Usually they are with in $50 of each other, and some months $200 distant.

So in 1998 the mean was $75 two mats, mount in a ready made with regular glass. (average ticket for year was $102.)
In 2006 the mean pushed in over the $120 mark, but less ready mades, and more CC. (average ticket was $217 and the job count was lower.)

So, whats your Bread & Butter, and what is your "mean" item framed?

 

[MarkyW]

I could very well be wrong about this. I was a math major in college, but that was a very loooong time ago, and I've forgotten a ton more than I remember. But to the best of my recollection the average and mean are the same thing. You might be thinking of 'mode' to describe which number is happening most often. And the 'median' is the number with half of the items above and half below.

 

[Baer Charlton]

That why you were the math major and I majored in Socio-Anthropology [and they removed me from the Stats class, 28 years ago.].

You are entirely correct... I was thinking Mode.... but for some reason, it just sounded too "Ugly Betty"...

But by the HUGE response... I would say the question is moot.

 

[JFeig]

Baer,

There was also a time(same era) when I went through over 10,000 ft of No 11 gold and silver moulding or equiv. That amounts to about 900 poster jobs a year. Where have they gone? And it is not about price.... I still offer a poster job starting at $63 for a 22 x 28.

 

[Bob Carter]

Hey Jerome-When we all sold tons of metal, there was no activity on the internet, BB's were hardly present and that look was prevalent.

Markets change

Today, we have a gazillion "non-traditional" competitors and that oem metal has been replaced by that 1 1/4" Architectural Black wood priced at the same or less than metals

Like I said, markets change

 

[Jim Miller]

Where have they gone? That's easy. We gave that segment of our industry to the BB's -- 'scuse me -- the AOS retailers.

You're right, Jerome. It's not a price issue. It's a marketing issue. I offer "plain & simple framing" up to 24x36 (one moulding, plain glass, no mats or protective features) for $44.99. Admittedly, most of those jobs end up over $100, but if a customer truly wants a cheap frame, nobody in town beats my deal.

Still, the vast majority of budget minded consumers now drive past my store on their way to M or JA, with 50% off coupons in their purses. If they only knew the truth...

 

[JFeig]

I offer 4 colors for my poster specials.

I agree it is a different market out there and we have to bend a bit to capture whatever market share we can. That is the only way to survive in the changing retailing world.

 

[Cliff Wilson]

My mean for 2006 was $127.86
My Median was a little less, but not a lot less. (program doesn't calculate that so I eyeballed it.)
If I roudned all sales to the nearest 5 dollar increment my mode would probably be 125. There's definitely a bell curve with a peak right around the median.

P.S. This is actually down from a mean of about $135 in 2005. My gross revenue and my margin were consistent, so I sold more for less.
I do not believe this was a product mix change, or a sales/design change! (I was the only designer for both years!)
I actully added higher cost options and increased my mix of CC frames.
I can only attribute this to a customer taste/budget change.
I did adjust some buying "habits" which I believe helped me maintain my margin %s.

 

[HarryGMCPF]

Where have they gone? That's easy. We gave that segment of our industry to the BB's -- 'scuse me -- the AOS retailers.
:

I don't know that that is completely true. I think they are capturing some of it, but I think mutch of it has gone the way of OEM pre-framed art. Think about what we used to frame with those poster specials....

It was inexpensive, "disposable" art that people would order, items for an office, or art picked up on vacation. Now, people can buy things all framed for what we charge for the art. There is so much preframed art now, that it is easier to buy it framed. As for the vacation posters, there is some of that, but again, more of it is available pre-framed, than ever before. Can't remember the last time I framed a poster from an MFA Boston, exhibition.... I miss the days of Monet's Haystacks posters........

I do remember when it seemed like every third job went into metal at less than $60.00.

So did we give it all to the AOS retailers? I would agree we gave them some, but I can tell you I know of one chain that gets about 10% of what they used to get for this type of framing.

As someone said, "markets change". This one did.

 

[wpfay]

I went to the Florida theater last night to see an aging rocker preform poorly in front of 400 (well 398, discounting us) rabid fans.
In the lobby was a poster for the 80th anniversary of the Theater...for sale. You could get the poster (10x24) for $30.00 or you could get it framed with a 2" mat, glass, and a black metal frame for $50.00

I know the framer....what I don't know is how he stays in business. This kind of suicidal marketing is probably doing its bit to dilute the market for the rest of us.

 

[Bob Carter]

Wally makes a great point

In a recent "long range planning" meeting of your PPFA, one astute framer suggested that perhaps we indies might shrink to around 5,000-6,000 shops in the immediate future.

I think he might be right

Which brought about a "Survival of the Fittest" type of discussion which led us to the argument of do we try and find a way to throw the struggling amongst us barley keeping their heads above water a "life preserver" or do we throw them an "anvil" to thin the herd?

 

[Jerry Ervin]

Bob

In Wally's example, it sounds to me like the operator is 'embracing' an anvil.

There is no need to toss one their way.

 

[Rick Granick]

I agree with Harry that the biggest change is the ubiquitous availability of good-looking OEM wall decor. When you can walk into Z Gallery, TJ Maxx, Sam's Club, or Kroger's supermarket and buy a preframed giclee wrap or a reproduction framed in a nicely designed package with fillet and suede mat, for less than our cost for materials alone, the net effect is to diminish the range of things people are willing to have custom framed. More and more of what people bring in are what I would call "specialty projects"- objects or pictures that people care about. Those of us who learn and practice the kinds of techniques that Jim uses and teaches can serve this market that the BBs are less well-equipped to handle.
The tricky part is that, in times past, the flow of bread-and-butter jobs like those Baer brought up paid the way for us to be available to offer the more "exotic" treatments. We now have to figure out a good way to sustain a required level of business when the "exotic" has become the "normal".
:kaffeetrinker_2: Rick

 

[Jim Miller]

...So did we give it all to the AOS retailers? I would agree we gave them some, but I can tell you I know of one chain that gets about 10% of what they used to get for this type of framing.
As someone said, "markets change". This one did.

Starting about 1998, the AOS retailers started taking it from us, and they now earn more than half of all custom framing in my market.

The OEMs are taking it from mass-market custom framers and small independents alike, starting around 2003 in my market. My guess is that in central Ohio today, small independent framers account for just over a third of all frames sold, and it will be more like a fourth in just a few more years. The other three fourths will be split among the AOS retailers, OEM wall decor (domestic and imported) sold in stores, and OEM via the internet.

That does not mean we do one third of the business we used to do. Rather, I believe we own about one third of today's business, counting the growth in recent years. To put it another way, if I were operating with the same sort of competition I had in 1997, I might be doing about twice the volume of business I do today -- but probably with the lower profit rates of the old days, too. To be honest, I'm not sure I would have preferred that scenario.

Domestic OEMs are a growing factor in stores and via the internet, but the OEM imports from Korea, China, Brazil and a few other countries are popping up at ridiculously low prices in Wal-Mart, Kohls, Meijer, drug stores, grocery stores, and all sorts of general retailers. They are not just in furniture stores and upscale department stores any more.

With its improved distribution and marketing, that category of wall decor is attracting consumers away from custom framing altogether, which affects everyone applying framing labor locally. That probably hurts the mass-market AOS retailers more than us, because they need big numbers and we don't.

Yes, markets change -- most of them, anyway. Every now and then at a trade show or in a class, I get to talk with a framer from an isolated market that the AOS retailers and OEMs have not yet found. Some small shop framers in those places still operate the way they did 20 years ago, and they wonder what all the hubbub is about.

It's still business-as-usual for them. But for me and a lot of other small independent framers, business has changed drastically almost every year of the past decade. And the evolution is still gaining momentum. Keeps us on our toes...

 

[HarryGMCPF]

So, what then?

O.K. as usual, we have identified a HUGE change in our business.

Now what?

How do we combat this (or pehaps a better term is, compensate) for this?

I used to work for a very smart man who didn't really care what you problem was... he only cared what you were doing about it....... in the end, that is all that matters.

Afterall, that is the question, isn't it?

What are we gonna do about it?

 

[Bob Carter]

Jim will be survivor because he is a gifted framer and a practical businessperson

The gifted framer part is a given-read any trade mag

The practical businessperson is available to anyone that reads any forum. He has identified his market and does what he needs to capture his share. He is not tied to any dogma, but resilient. He has eliminated lines that fo rhim are not profitable, yet embraced lines that are filling his need to be competitive for that portion of his market where price is an issue (but, still highly profitable)

(Did I mention that Jim talked us into using better quality plastics?)

Jim is taking that "anvil" and melting it down into vnails

BTW, the national average for indies market share is about the same as Jim's

 

[Lori Drugan]

HUGE COINCIDENCE

What a coincidence that you would bring this up Baer. I didn't see your post until just now , but Ahlene and I were just this morning discussing the fact that the majority of our customers are spending way above what our average ticket used to be. However, we don't seem to be getting the "$100. Bread & Butter" customer as much as we used to.

Listen, I'm not complaining. I am very happy those customers that are bring the big ticket framing items are bringing them to us. But hey, I want the smaller amount orders too. We are definately going to try the $79. 24x36 poster approach and see what that does for us. And I'm sure as this thread goes on I will get more good suggestions.

Lori

 

[PaulSF]

It would be great to replace bread-and-butter with jersey boxes and shadowboxes, but I just don't hardly see any of that in my area. People aren't willing to pay more than $300 to have a sports jersey custom-framed, but they won't pay $300 for the Jersey Pro case, either. They want their Cadillac at bicycle prices. In the year I've been open, I've framed one jersey. One.

 

[Jim Miller]

It would be great to replace bread-and-butter with jersey boxes and shadowboxes, but I just don't hardly see any of that in my area...

Trust me on this: When your bread-and-butter framing (as it is described in this thread) goes away, one of three things will happen:

1. You will not realize it and starve to death.
2. You will realize it, give up, and run screaming out the back door.
3. You will realize it and develop profitable alternatives.

Instead of building 50-75 frames a week, which we used to do with 3 or 4 people in the back room, now we build 20-30 frames a week with 1-1/2 people in the back room. But the frames today are larger, more elaborate, and generally better quality than the old "bread-and-butter" frames of the early and mid-90s. Revenue is significantly reduced from what it used to be, but net profit is better than ever.

 

[preservator]

Jim has given a great protrait of how the "high end" works and that is where
framers, who wish to prosper, should be going.


Hugh

 

[PaulSF]

Oh, I agree wholeheartedly, Jim and Hugh. The nice thing about the bread-and-butter is that they don't require a whole lot of work. The dollar amount isn't high, but the time involved isn't high either. Put together a simple wood frame, cut a sheet of glass, drymount, and assemble. Bang 'em out.

Contrast that with the potential customer I just had in here, with two beautiful copper-engraved plates to be framed. They will need to be float-mounted somehow. The smaller one was fairly light, while the bigger one was heavy. So the backing would have to be sturdier, and we would need spacers to keep the glass from scraping against the plates. The challenges are more significant, and the prices are higher too -- between $225 and $275, giving her 30% off on the moulding. (and no, she didn't place the order, this elegantly dressed woman put them back in her Nordstrom bag and went back out to her Mercedes-Benz sedan, to wait for us to have a better sale)

 

[FrameMakers]

Starting about 1998, the AOS retailers started taking it from us, and they now earn more than half of all custom framing in my market.

Jim, we are in the same market.

What stats do you have about this?

When I stop by the AOS/BB stores and check out there framing depts, I rarly see anyone working in the custom dept. I also don't see many things waiting to be picked up. I also have asked our delivery drivers about how much they drop of to the AOS/BB stores. Other then Christmas time they told me that they don't get anymore than what they deliver to any other independent shops.

Now this is all about Custom Framing, I don't think they are hurting us at all, but when it comes to there readymades and poster frames they are kicking us where the sun don't shine. All the numbers that I have seen about M, JA, & AB are for thier total frame depts not just custom framing.

I still wonder if the AOS/BB are the real problem or if there is a more fundimental shift away from framed wall decor.

 

[PaulSF]

I think the comment about OEM framed art in shops like Z Gallery, Bed Bath, and even Costco was dead on -- this is where alot of this is going. And it's cheap cheap cheap in terms of price.

The thing is, Bed Bath and Costco don't stand by their work the way that we do. So when the customer drops the piece and the glass breaks, where's he going to go? He comes to us. And that Guy Buffett framed poster he bought for $134 at Costco now needs to be replaced, because the glass tore it up good. That's $40-50. And the glass needs to be replaced. Add in the fitting charge, and he's spent another $100+ on that piece, but he spends it in our stores. Let's just hope that Costco doesn't add a framing department!

 

[Bob Carter]

I think Dave is astute to break out the two segments. While different, for us they are symbiotic

Let's look at the "wall decor" side.

If you buy mldg chop and you buy it from any of the normal wholesale outlets the you are not able to compete.

If you have a location where 5-6 people a day on average walk into your store, you are not able to compete (sounds like Jeff Foxworthy saying "you might be a redneck if...)

If you think "my designs are to die for", you are hanging your future on a false promise.

So, this is in fact a category we have abdicated without a whimper

Now, with that exodus of clientele that now see "other alternatives and other price points", we give them precious little to return once they have left the reservation

Now, if you feel that none of those factors play into your "custom" side of the biz, you might be "optimistically delusional"

Before anyone gets all defensive, look at several key measureable factors: If your biz is older than 5 yrs, has your personal income gone up greater than inflation or more importantly, how about 10% per year?

How about your sales?

More employees?

If we look at the "Craftsmanship" side of the trade, understand I have no problem with anyone getting tremendous satsifaction from a job well designed and well executed

I'm not so sure if that is a great blueprint to the same level of financial rewards

There is a difference, and like the differences in the segments of our biz, it depends on what your motivations are

Perhaps some of us are motivated by more zeroes while some of us, not

 

[Jim Miller]

Jim, we are in the same market.

What stats do you have about this?

When I stop by the AOS/BB stores and check out there framing depts, I rarly see anyone working in the custom dept. I also don't see many things waiting to be picked up. I also have asked our delivery drivers about how much they drop of to the AOS/BB stores. Other then Christmas time they told me that they don't get anymore than what they deliver to any other independent shops.I still wonder if the AOS/BB are the real problem or if there is a more fundimental shift away from framed wall decor.

Dave, I have only my own company stats, plus surveys from PPFA, two major suppliers, and a local college's MBA-Marketing survey of 150 locals. There are no hard numbers in any direction. In fact, the market in your locations may be different than mine, especially when we factor in the differences in our marketing strategies. I have let the "bread and butter" low-dollar business go away, while you have found ways to compete for it. Kudos to you.

Our local suppliers do not sell much to M, JA, or HL. Most of their supplies and partial assemblies come from out of town. There is plenty of evidence that they sell framing. The JA store about a mile away employs 6 part time framers, who spend most of their time trying to keep up with the mounting and fitting tasks. M is a similar size.

I believe the AOS retailers are -- or soon will be -- shrinking as a result of OEM influences. In-store sales, internet sales and commercial sales of imported wall decor will command an increasingly larger share of the total art/framing market.

We who frame personal valuables and collectibles, on the other hand, will be less affected by the direction of the total market. Indeed, as the AOS retailers shrink, consumers may be encouraged to visit us more often, instead of having the AOS folks frame their heirlooms. So, in some twisted, limited way, the foreign imports could work to our advantage.

 

[FrameMakers]

That is very interesting. BTW I am on the northwest side of Columbus and Jim is on the far east side of town (45 minutes away).

The BB stores on this side of town don't seem to be nearly as busy as what you are saying.

 

[PaulSF]

OK, so let me toss this out there....I'm fairly new, been open just over one year. I don't carry any ready-mades in larger sizes, although I do have photo frames in the smaller sizes -- 4x6, 5x7, 8x10, 11x14, and 16x20. That's as large as I've gone with readymade frames, and it's a very basic selection.

I get people who come in from time to time asking if I have ready-mades, and that's what I show them. If they need something larger, I'd have to do custom. Sometimes they opt for what I have, and sometimes they don't like it, and ask where they can go to find something else. I hate the idea of suggesting that they go to Aaron Bros, Michael's, or Cheap Pete's. So I usually say Target, knowing that what they will find there is garbage (pronounced in the French style) and hoping they will come back to me for custom.

Am I nutso for not carrying a better selection of ready-mades in larger poster sizes, or would it be even crazier to try to compete in that segment against retailers that buy such frames in much greater quantities than I would?

 

[Baer Charlton]

FrameLady has about a Gazillion square foot shop with tons of readymades.... but I don't really remember seeing the 24x30s or 30x40s of the old days when we did more euro-oils... (Henco en Mexico for oils and frames... now it's all just preframed from China)

We do the 2x3 up to 16x20 and rarely have a call for larger... but Cost Plus World Market and Pier 1 usually come to mind.... chintzier than Target.

 

[Jay H]

Jim has given a great protrait of how the "high end" works and that is where
framers, who wish to prosper, should be going.

We who frame personal valuables and collectibles, on the other hand, will be less affected ...

If you think "my designs are to die for", you are hanging your future on a false promise.

If we look at the "Craftsmanship" side of the trade, understand I have no problem with anyone getting tremendous satsifaction from a job well designed and well executed

I'm not so sure if that is a great blueprint to the same level of financial rewards

Man, with all this spin, I think I'm getting vertigo.

 

[Cliff Wilson]

Paul,

I can't really advise you, because I haven't investigated your specific locale and situation. But, here, I have added some larger "poster frames" from Nielsen (reasonable price point and reasonable margin) that don't sell frequently, but are picked up from time to time and my custoemrs tell me they would rather "pay a little more" (they're not and I explain that to them) than go "out of their way." In my case it's a bit harder to get to the large volume retailers of readymades. Plus, they are almost always picking something else up at the same time.

I don't carry readymades suitable for canvases, but that's as much a function of space as anything else.

BTW, the frames at Target aren't half bad.

 

[HarryGMCPF]

style) Am I nutso for not carrying a better selection of ready-mades in larger poster sizes, or would it be even crazier to try to compete in that segment against retailers that buy such frames in much greater quantities than I would?

You might be. I think it may suit you to have some larger sizes available to salvage those sales.

The other and perhaps better option, would be to have a custom alternative that prices similar to a RM and can be done quickly. This option may cost a little more (10-15%), but the key is, and the selling point is that it is CUSTOMIZABLE. You sell the fact that you can make the frame to fit their 21.5x26" poster, rather than fitting it into a 22x28 RM and have it not fit. Plus, you'll be happy to drymount it for them and put it together for that great price. 9 out of 10 will go for it if the price can be close. It is an easy sell. You get the biz and a VERY satisfied customer for life.

Aint that what its all about. Customers for life. Cause customers for life tell two friends, and they tell two friends, and so on, and so on......