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DTWDSM

DTWDSM

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Joined
Feb 19, 2002
Posts
2,824
Loc
USA
First off I will not name the company because I have not got a definate answer from them yet but they seem to be stalling so I thought I would ask here.

In May of 2004 we framed 4 pieces for an auto dealership using a respected company's mouldings. They called me yesterday and said that the frames were starting to peel and crack. Turns out that the laminate is peeling and cracking, never seen anything like this before. No this is not the old Framica frames, it looks worse than they did.

I asked the company how they were going to stand by the frame and make everyone happy. Four phone calls and a lot of "him hawing" around, I still have no answer.

Shouldn't this been a " We will send replacements out today" answer? It is obviously a quality control issue with the glue and/or laminate.
 
First I would ascertain that the frames have not been exposed to extremes (heat, moisture, etc) that might have compromised their integrity and shortened their useful life.

Secondly, if said company doesn't stand behind the products they sell, and you have given them enough time to offer redress and they didn't, I would certainly list their name here and see if someone else has had the same problem. (And to warn others who might find themselves someday in the same situation with that company's products.)

Public pressure works wonders sometimes.
 
Windermere?

All of mine have been replaced... no charge... no questions.
 
Not LJ, I know it would have been corrected in one phone call.

As for the company, if it is not fixed tomorow then yes the company name will be posted and they will know that they are being posted before I do.

Just frustrating that they just will not give me an answer, seems like a no brainer to me but I guess I am a little more customer service oriented.
 
I have had that happen with frames and corner samples from a nationally known company... where temp, humidity, etc., were not an issue. Quality was the issue. Those corner samples are now gone (even though I get free delivery from a local distributor).

I'll be interested to see if we have a shared problem with the same business. Til then, mum's the word.
 
I recently tossed an entire box of corner samples that had delaminated the veneer before they even came out of the box. No telling how long the'd been in there, I inherited them with the shop, unopened, but my rep said they had "had issues" with them in the past, I figured why ask for trouble? Shame, they were pretty ones.

Tim, keep us posted!
 
Praise publicly, criticize privately.

Like Jerry, I have kicked out a couple of suppliers for service or policies I consider unacceptable. You will not see their names here.

I suggest that if you have a problem with a supplier, work your way up the "chain of command" until you get satisfactory answers. If none of that works, express your unfortunate opinion to the company's owner, and stop buying from that company.

If you tell everyone here that XYZ Moulding Co. is a lousy supplier, the offending company is almost certainly a favorite supplier to some of us. Their loyal customers will wonder if was really the company's problem, or really your problem. The truth is, it doesn't matter.

It is likely that nothing you could say here would change the supplier's mind about fixing your particular problem.
 
Going public with the information may not change the supplier's mind but it might help other framers to avoid the same problem.

Sharing problems with vendors keeps the sales reps from feeding us a line of BS.
I have had that happen in the past.
Had a rep tell me no one else was having the problem.
I knew better because others had shared information on this forum.

Knowledge is power.
 
Jim,
You're too much the gentleman.

A public forum does have potential for providing leverage in the event that the vendor in question is not providing the level of customer care they should. It needs to be used very carefully in that regard to avoid abuse of its potential. Not something I would do lightly, but I would if the situation persists unresolved to my liking.

In this instance I would be quick to redress the issue of the framing with the client and take up the details with the vendor at a later date if they are reluctant to stand forth immediately (I would also be simultaneously pulling their samples from the wall). The customer need not know of the vendor's habits...all they should see is that their problem is solved.
 
Tim,

I don't know about you but I remember the response grumblers would get when posting suppliers names in this forum.

Specifically I can remember some grumblers getting lambasted publicly when a certain supplier was mentioned in an unkind light. I remember United, for example, really digging into a grumbler who had complained about the "free shipping" only if you ask for it policy.

Not me, as I don't order from United anymore. (do I Peter? 04003 I think was my number)

*United has good prices, and good delivery turnaround times. I haven't dropped them because of the way Peter responds on the grumble, I just get my stuff elsewhere. Peter does have a right to respond, and to protect his company, so please don't flame me!
 
Who's at fault?

D_Derbonne said:
Going public with the information may not change the supplier's mind but it might help other framers to avoid the same problem...Had a rep tell me no one else was having the problem. I knew better because others had shared information on this forum...
Click to expand...

In order to caution others about a particular problem, it is not necessary to reveal the supplier's name -- those affected can make the connection and, if appropriate, communicate privately.

The same problem could occur with other suppliers. And if several Grumblers share the same problem as described, then the solution might apply universally, whether or not the same supplier is involved.

For example, if the delaminating moulding DTWDSM described came from a foreign producer, a lot of other distributors might have sold exactly the same product. Yes, IMHO, the supplier should replace defective moulding immediately. But nailing the supplier would not help anyone else, who has to deal with the same problem with the same moulding, through another distributor.

Or, if the delamination is due to some as-yet-undetermined environmental condition, then it would be unfair to blame the supplier at all. In a car dealership, maybe airborne exhaust fumes could chemically react with the adhesive. Or if the air temperature fluctuates when the doors are open, radical expansion/contraction could cause a problem. I don't know, but I would not blame the supplier unless I knew they had some responsibility for the problem -- especially not publicly.

If the stated problem is strange and unique, then others might not have the same experience with the same supplier.

D_Derbonne said:
Knowledge is power.
Click to expand...

Yes, but what if the "knowledge" is mistaken or misgiven? The power of mass communication can be devastating if used mistakenly or frivolously. I know of at least one occasion when a framer, bent on revenge, overstated or exaggerated a supplier problem online. I knew both the supplier and the customer in question, and got 'the rest of the story', as Paul Harvey would say. The supplier was not at fault, and suffered unfairly. The framer who caused serious trouble was free of the consequences.

By all means, let's discuss problems, causes, and solutions. The Grumble is a wonderful resource for that kind of information. But let's not try to ruin anybody in the process.
 
I don't think we should be too quick to name names, but when there's a chronic problem, with no resolution in sight, I think it's good to share.

The best example I can think of is LaMarche.
 
I think we should deal with the company and then decide after that if it is worth posting. There have been a few times on here that vendors have been bashed. Some I think had it coming, others not. Then we have people on here that defend the vendor and think the vendors are always correct. Heck even some owners of companies come on here gun slinging sometimes...that i find in poor taste. Others are responsive and take the time to find out the situation. There is a fine line with this stuff. Sometimes the vendor is right and sometimes the customer. And remember for every customer that has a valid complaint, there maybe 5 or 6 false complaints. Then the vendor is expected to cover the customers butt. I say when it is something real, complain. When it is nit picking, just learn to deal or go somewhere else.

It gets old for both when complaining is the norm. In tis case the vendor seems to be a knucklhead. I think I would already have the samples in a box and be calling my rep.

PL
 
Ok, I am going to name the supplier........












Thank you Omega for correcting the issue first thing this morning. No threats were made, no mouldings puled off the wall, no raised voices.

No more problem.

Thanks again Omega
 
Good thing they did.

But again, they should have done so immediately, without dragging their feet and maybe looking at the potential bad publicity on the forum or elsewhere.

Good service should be a matter of fact, not an after-thought.
 
Good thing I didn't mention my problem manufacturer! It would have been a different one. (slinking away....)

I have always had pretty good business dealings with Omega. So I say "thumbs up" to all.

Nice conclusion.
 
Damage is done.

Paul N said:
...Good service should be a matter of fact, not an after-thought.
Click to expand...

This is how naming names can be damaging. DTWDSM thought he was doing the right thing for his supplier by declaring that the emergency was averted. It isn't enough that the parties involved are satisfied. A shadow of guilt was cast over this supplier's name, just by public discussion of the issue.

My guess is that some customers will think twice about ordering veneered moulding from this supplier now, whether the problem applies to them or not. Where there's smoke, there's fire, eh? The damage is done.

Paul apparently thinks good service was an after-thought here, which hints that the supplier's fore-thought might have gone the other way. Hmmmm.

As usual in threads like this, we don't have enough information to draw any conclusion. But the question of customer service has been raised, so each of us is invited to give the supplier the benefit of doubt, or assume the worst, depending on our impressions.

If I were an Omega customer, I might be inclined to show sympathy for the unintended damage they have suffered here, and honor their proper response with an extra order today.
 
DTWDSM said:
I asked the company how they were going to stand by the frame and make everyone happy. Four phone calls and a lot of "him hawing" around, I still have no answer.
Click to expand...

Jim:

Does the above imply good service and a will to rectify a problem to you?? It sure looks like foot dragging to me.

And, most likely it wouldn't have been solved to any-one's satisfaction if this was not mentioned on the forum.

As I said, a will to stand behind their product and not do the ignore or the run-around game is what separates the good from the bad and the ugly.

And this is a public forum Jim, where names are mentioned and not hidden for fear of antagonizing a supplier.
 
Good Job Tim

Tim did the right thing naming the company...and was quick to thank them for coming through......finally. This wasn't a matter of a bad chop, or a lengthy OOS situation. The venner was peeling and he stated that he called 4 times to get a resolution to the problem. If we can't get good customer service from our suppliers, then we can't offer the same to our customers.

Tim obviously thought this out before his original post. He did not post quickly out of anger, and as I stated made a point to thank Omega. Personally I am happy to have the information, as I am sure others are.

To suggest that we all give Omega and extra order today is ludicrous. Forgive us oh supplier for we have sinned..... Come on Jim give the guy a break, he came here for advise. He did nothing irrational.

We all have to use our own discretion before posting about a supplier. I had what I considered a very serious matter with a company this week. I deferred privately to to some members of the G for their advise and had considered posting it here. In this case eventually everything worked out and I am glad it didn't come to my having to post. But I will post when deemed warrented. Es[ecially if it is in regards to a defective product.

So again...thanks for sharing Tim.
 
Paul N said:
Jim:

And, most likely it wouldn't have been solved to any-one's satisfaction if this was not mentioned on the forum.
Click to expand...


Well Paul I am going to diagree with you here. I have been a customer of Omega's for over 10 years and I know that it would have been solved. Omega knew nothing of my discussion on this forum and if you read my entire post I said that there were no threats of this issue being posted. Your coments sound as if you are trying to insigate some ill feelings toward this vendor.

We all have had problems with suppliers in the past but if they are a good supplier you know that they will fix the problem. Now in this situation I thought it shuld have been a simple solution, replace the frame. And that is what they did, my problem had to go through a couple channels before the solution was given to me so it did take a little longer but it was solved in less than 24 hours.

The thing that we all should focus on is that the consumer is happy. Sure it cost Omega money by replacing the frame and it is going to cost me money since I am reframing these pieces at no charge to the customer (they offered to pay) but, the consumer has had a good experience and they will not have anything bad to say about me or our industry.

Too often people on this forum focus on the negatives and forget to mention the positives. Did I have to mention the name of the company? No. Did I do it because they solved a problem and they deserved to be recognized as a company that is good for our industry? Yes.

If you for any reason second guess buying from Omega because of this particular situation then you really are not thinking clearly. They are a good company and I will continue to buy from them. I even was showing and sold their frame in the hours between my intial call to them about the problem and when the problem was resolved. Yes, I sold their frame even though I had a problem with them at the same time.....What does that tell you about my feelings for them?

I fully agree that if a company is not fair, ethical, or just does not have good practices then they open themselves up to public bashing, this is not the case. This is a case of public praise that is wel deserved.
 
Actually Tim, I had a feeling it was Omega, even before you mentioned any names. After all, it's the only company that screwed my 3 major orders for me in one year.

But if their reaction (on non-reaction) time you mentioned is tolerable to you, that's your privilege. I expect faster resolution, but hey, that's me, and I have my own standards and tolerance levels.

And if somebody wants to know how badly Omega screwed up in my case, I'll be glad to oblige. Privately of course, as we don't want some forum members to be upset or have a fit again, about discussing Omega, or whoever, on a public forum.
 
If you are pleased with our service, tell the world....

.... if not, tell us!

Hindsight is a wonderful thing - the end result was a happy one so the first post could have been a positive instead of a negative one ... 'had this strange problem with the finish of a moulding cracking - rang ACME mouldings and they sorted it within 24 hrs ....' kind of thing.

I think the responses matched the suggestions.
 
It's your forum.

Paul N said:
...And if somebody wants to know...I'll be glad to oblige. Privately of course, as we don't want some forum members to be upset or have a fit again...
Click to expand...

It's your forum as much as it's anyone else's, Paul. You don't need anyone's permission to do as you wish.
 
Sometimes fixing a problem situation is really a chance for us to shine. It shows the customer that our number one priority is their complete satisfaction with what we have made for them and that we will "go the extra mile" to see to it. They will remember that, and tell their friends how great we are.
Even if this costs us a little money or time, it is an "advertising expense" virtually guaranteed to provide good results. What other promotional expenditures can you say that about?
:cool: Rick
 
Any time someone on here bashes a company for what ever reason, there will be at least one Grumbler that finds offense to outing the situation. I find that odd because this is called The Grumble after all.

I have my own stories about the mentioned company that I will not share.

To anyone who just Loves Omega, good for you.
 
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