What defines an " Industry leader"


PFG, Picture Framing God
Founding Member
Aug 12, 2000
San Diego, CA
Curly said that Bill is an industry leader for founding and starting The Grumble. Without a doubt, that is a fact.

I think Bob Carter could legitimately be defined as an industry leader for his willingness to learn, grow, and unselfishly contribute to others in our industry. When I first met Bob on The Grumble, I did not care for him at all. I have watched him change into a caring contributor and my attitude toward him has completely reversed. Bob is really a well meaning guy who is genuinely interested in the advancement of his fellow framing business owners and our industry. Bob Carter is an industry leader. Who else?

I may have butted heads with him on a few occasions….. but Jim Miller is well up on my list …..Jim is another example of having his fellow framers interests at heart……he gives so much…..here on the G…..

There are many more who share there time and knowledge here on the G without hesitation……and then there are those who quietly extend there Grumble sharing behind the scenes which I suspect is there preferred way of doing things……one fellow Grumbler Jerry Feig has been quietly a huge source of inspiration to me both with what he has talked to me about and in the massive library of books he sent to me….I would strongly suspect that due to Jerry’s generosity I have one of the biggest collection of framing books in Ireland…thanks again Jerry
Ron Eggers and Bill McKay should be high on that list for their daily dedication and contributions to this forum.

Markoff, Parker, Goltz, Bluestone, Kistler, Taff, Wolfe, Miller, Carter, Baker are names that immediately come to mind. Some vendors have also had a big impact on the industry.

It would be great if they were all participants.
OK Mike,

If you don't mind, I'll submit your name, for all you do to provide computer techie info and the very useful polls that you create here on the G. You provide a very valuable service for all of us.

Keep up the good work!

I like William Parker, I think he is a good guy that can listen and give valuable advice. I think we would all have to say thanks to Hugh and Rebecca. Tom has so smart ideas on home made things to help your shop. Heck I would have to say most folks on here have helped me, so...thanks to all.
This of course leads to the establishment of some kind of Grumblers Awards for contributions to the Framing Industry as presented through The Grumble.

A committee will have to evolve to decide how often, how many, and who should get these awards.

The physical award presented will of course have to be in the form of a frame - perhaps a competition among framers for a suitable design.

I belive the first award should go to William McKay - commonly known as "Framer" for his efforts in starting and continuing the Grumble.

I would like to see the awards be quite prestigious and not given lightly or too often.

I say this seriously - no warped here folks!

[ 05-26-2004, 11:37 AM: Message edited by: John Gornall CPF ]
I think Framer deserves the Innovator of the Millenium award. He provides something that simply did not exist, at this level anyway.

As to the other awards, might I add my own personal observation?

The greatest award comes, unsolicited, from a person that you have never met before that comes up to you at a meeting or a trade show, and mentions something you said so many moons ago that you forgot. They go on to tell you that this single shred of information helped them immeasurably.

It is humbling beyond description.

Thank goodness my wife accompanies me on these trips to keep things in perspective,lest I might believe the kind words. Leave it to your wife to bring things back to reality. Thank goodness

Teaching is a reward unto itself and there aren't enough honorariums to even get close to the same level of satisfaction.

What defines an "Industry Leader"?

Simple, it is defined by someone else's appreciation of your efforts.

And, there are many, many of you out there that easily could fit that bill
I suggest the award be called "The William McKay Award"

I suggest the trophy be called a "Grumbler" (Better than an Oscar - at least to framers!)

When awarded, a full page should be used as an announcement in each of the major trade magazines. Might help drag a few of the non-participating framers into the world of The Grumble.

I suggest William McKay receive the first "Grumbler".

I wonder if John Baker would like to be chairperson of the awards comittee?
Bill Knowles, a long time framer here in San Diego died recently and I just wanted his name to appear somewhere because he was an industry leader. He worked tirelessly in his local chapter and was willing to help any framer who came to him with a problem. He was instramental in keeping the San Diego Chapter a very dynamic chapter for years and years. He could be a pian sometimes just because he had opinions and didn't mind stating them but he had a good heart, was a great guy and I'm sorry he's gone.

Nona Powers, CPF

You've been quite persistently into "industry leaders" those days. Had started with going after the industry leaders that bad mouthed TG (definitely others than those who show up around here), and finally ended peacefully by "industry-leaderfying" most every grumbler that was well minded and generous enough to facilitate or share his wisdom with us. At one point it looked as if every individual framer had a different nomination in his mind, and we were prizing each other with that pompous dignity, making The Grumbler into The Industry itself.

With all due respect, and I mean it, Bill is not frame industry’s leader but one of its respected heroes, who earns his leaving working in a shop just like you are, and had the stamina to start and keep this forum running. Chapeau to Bill!

Bob and Jim are excellent teachers. Bill Adair is a savant. The rest of us are kind of soldiers. Being a teacher, a savant or a hero is not little thing. There are very few people gifted with passion, wisdom, talent and huge enough hearts to become heroes and teachers.

But a leader is somebody (almost something) else. Not only those leaders are followed, admired and respected, but also feared by the flock. When leader changes his course, increases his prices, alter his technology or business policy, dies or sells out, that is of a terrible concern to the entire industry, gets noticed rapidly and brings about the equivalent of an industry quake. None of us, grumblers, are in danger to ever become so decisively important to the frame industry, let's get real.
In my opinion we managed to embarrass the h*** out of Bill, Bob and the rest of our nominees.
Cornel, this is The Grumble, it is our club. We get to do whatever we want, that is why it is fun. We can select our own heroes if we feel the urge. I can assure you that all of us on this thread have an understanding of what an "Industry leader " is. What it is to you is just as important as whatever definition it is to us.

In San Diego, Bill Knowles was an " Industry leader". His passing will cause no earthquakes, life will go on and so will our industry, but he will be missed by all who ever met him. Nona, thank you for telling us about it, I did not know.

I met Bill at his frame shop in La Jolla years ago. I introduced myself and he made me feel welcome, he gave me the dime tour of his shop, we talked for several hours. He was a good guy, and I'm glad I knew him.

John, I hope you where kidding about me chairing a committee. Kidding or not, I am honored, but I would have to decline. I am just not all that sociable of a person. I would like to contribute to the construction costs of this trophy, if that would help. I would think that the design, name , etc. would be fuel for another Grumbler thread, all Grumblers could be involved, more fun.

Nona Powers, is with out a doubt, another " Industry Leader ". Nona has always maintained a great reputation as an ethical, top of the line, custom framer, here in San Diego. Even from her competition over the years, I have heard nothing but praise. She has taken on FACTS and through her unbelievable personal efforts, it is becoming a reality. That, Cornel, is pretty darn close to an earthquake in our industry.


Gooood, I like it. By these lingo and streatched standards I must be the industry's transatlantic leader then.
Don't I cross The Atlantic back and forth? I do. And aren't my products being dispatched from Romania to New York, all the way up to San Francisco? Yes, they are.
Haven't you heard of me and aren't you always eager to follow/consider my pleading for too good quality oval reproductions instead of jumping on Inlineovals with all your needs? Yes, undoubtly so.
Heven't I lifted to industry's most prominent level such an obscure name as Abe Munn of New` York? See, what I mean?

[ 06-01-2004, 08:04 AM: Message edited by: American Choice ]
Cornel, If you consider yourself an industry leader, then it must be so.

It's kind of like considering the size of the Universe. If you believe the Universe is infinite in all directions, and a lot of folks do. Then, YOU must be the exact center of the Universe.

As far as Abe Munn is concerned, I heard of him many years ago, long before I heard of home computers, or The Grumble. Abe Munn was, without a doubt, an "Industry Leader".

Industry leaders can be found in many areas of the framing business. They are the people who other framers listen to and learn from. In my humble opinion the best leaders are those who are not afraid to embrace new ideas from others even if those ideas didn't come from a sorce that is well known to the industry.

A good leader will always try to help other framers to be as profitable as possible and be willing to accept that the old ways aren't always the best for every situation. All the conservation and artistic/creative framing techniques in the world will not keep a shop going if the bottom line is in the red due to overhead.

The best leaders will always stop to listen to those who follow them because they know that if the only voice they ever hear is their own, then they haven't learned anything that they didn't already know.
My friend,

I give up on smiling faces. Next time I'll be kidding you with Italic fonts just to make it clear something was not quite straight in what I was saying.

Life size transatlantic industry's leader