What are your lowest Retail moulding prices?

Create a Post
Less

Less

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Joined
Jun 23, 2002
Posts
2,706
Loc
ZZ
I’m curious about what other framers offer for low-end moulding.
I offer a basic ½” wood cap for $5 to $6 a foot, and N15 metal for $7. (I’ll be happy to sell ya a 5” 22k hand-carved if ya like) I have not tried plastic yet, and to go much below this does not seem to offer much profit.

I believe it’s important to be competitive and accommodate the client who wants an inexpensive alternative to my usual treatment. I do business in the northeast, need to provide medical insurance for my family and would like to be able to put my kids through collage. Ha Ha!

And another note:
With many Industry leader frames on my wall the average retail price is easily two to three times that.
I often think about offering frames from other suppliers that appear to the same frame and quality at half the price. Although I respect these industry leaders contributions to our industry, It’s hard to support them when there is such a large discrepancy.
 
 
so much for my kids education
 
I would suspect that AJ's prices reflect the absolute cheapest end of the spectrum. Your competition won't be anywhere near that low.

As always, your market is a better barometer of pricing than this forum.

But, his prices beg the question: Why so low? Just because you buy well is not the reason to price so far below the market. I would also suspect that at $2.49/ft for OEM metal is probably about 50% lower than anyone else. We would refer that to "leaving money on the table".
 
Since I've read that it costs most of us (small to mid sized retail frame shops) $3.00 a foot to make an average frame, selling at $3.00 plus length and shipping & waste factor is a break even SALE price even though we may not like to face it.

So, at actual cost, there aren't very many $5 or $6 a foot frames out there (without buying 500+ feet at a time). Yet, I admit that I have a very few that I still offer at that price range and I guess that most frame shops do, too -- even if it's just "poster special" framing.
 
My least expensive mouldings in the store are a simple 1/2" and 3/4" satin black. Respectively, they run about $4.50 and $5.50 I believe. Everytime I have a customer come in and ask to frame their work with the least expensive frame in the store, these are the frames I show them. Of course, more often than not, my customer does not wish to go into a black frame. Other times, the moulding is simply too lightweight a wood to go with (I think they are pine). I have found that this is usually a great stepping stone for jumping into a slightly higher priced frame (usually $8-$10/foot), which gives the customer a better product, as well as increase my profits.

I can also go into metals if needed, since of course I can put a much larger piece in a 1/2" metal than I can in awood of the same size. Lately I've noticed that I am using less Nielsen 11 and 15 profiles than I used to, and more of the newer profiles, like 68 and 97. Once again, a better product without breaking the bank. I keep the metal markup a little lower than my woods, as several other shops in my area price their metals as just about 2 1/2 times cost. I keep mine slightly lower than that, just to stay competetive.
 
 
Without disagreeing with AJ, I have one concern - a customer has 20 posters, 18 1/2 x 26, and wants them with glass and foamcore only.

With the margins you have (with your lowest price profile) will you make enough profit on glass/FC/fit to cover the total labor? What if they are not all the same exact size and you lose the economy of repetition? A mix of black, gold, and silver frame?

While this doesn't happen everyday, it will impact the health of your business. To make my point consider a bakery - 60 cents for a hard roll and 35.00 for a sheet cake. What are the material costs? My friend figured it out for me. The roll is about 8 cents - 13% of the retail or a mark-up of 7.5 times. The cake costs about $12 - 35% of retail or a mark-up of almost 3 times. Notice that he doesn’t sell the hard roll for 3X the cost (24 cents) because he can’t pay the bills on a margin of 16 cents per roll. At times he has been able to ‘buy cheaper’ but as he said, ‘the utility company wasn’t running a sale that month’ and the extra volume raised his costs. He did not keep every penny of what he got in lower costs.

My point is, and this is something I am just coming to realize, there is a limit to how low you can sell something for. While this is relative to your market, it is true in all of them. I am starting to get away from the ‘rob Peter to pay Paul’ approach of pricing some items too high to make up for the loss on the other item. If everyone stopped eating hard rolls and bought sheet cake, my friend Al would be out of business overnight. We both laughed about this over a Cappuccino. His favorite line is “I’d rather eat profits than eat discounts”.

Oh, and answer the question, it's $8.00 ft for me.
 
AJ has the right to sell his products for whatever price he likes. In his case, it might be profitable. My suggestion is that it is bad advice for most all other framers. But for him, it might work splendidly.

My whole point was that pricing should be reflective of market. If, in his market, $2.49 is the going price, then he needs to stay where he is. But I don't suspect anyone else sells that low. Let's suppose that the next lowest is $2.99 (again, I doubt it). Then why would you want to be lower than the lowest? I would look for the highest and be somewhere in between. That is if my skill and design, location and product mix were all average.

But what if my skills were superior, my designs spectacular? Wouldn't that be worth more, yet? So, we acknowledge that AJ is a shrewd buyer. But why should the consumer be the winner because he buys lower than anyone in hius market. we believe in turning that buying advantage into a selling advantage-thus creating a profit advantage. And who doesn't want to make more money? Even more than currently making?

So, AJ is correct in his market determining what he should charge. I just don't believe that at $2.49/ft, that his market reflects that.

But it is his business and he is able to charge whatever he feels. It's just bad advice for most everyone else.
 
" Any idiot can give it away " Len Aaron, founder of Aaron Brothers, back in the late sixties.

John
 
Bob, et. al.: AJ also admits he's HOME BASED He doesn't have the overhead I have as a retail space. Probably no employees, workman's comp etc etc.Just my three cents.
 
Mike-It still doesn't negate selling for what the market will bear. If $4.00/ft is more in tune with the market, then why wouldn't $4.00/ft be a "better" price. Again, why leave money on the table?
 
 
AJ states in his handle that he supplies "frames to retail framers". That makes it clear to me that these are wholesle prices to the trade. Am I right AJ or are these in fact retail prices?

PS. My low end is $7 CAN.
 
Let's not forget each single contribution to the price that the local market will bear.
 
$2.49 isn't cheap.

I have a series of mouldings that are free. It's my "already-moved-'em-twice-and-not-planning-on-moving-'em-again" series. I charge a cutting and joining charge (labor only) and regular price for mats, glass, mounting and fitting.

There are no corner samples and the stuff is piled up on my basement floor (with a couple of 2x4s under the pile.) Most of it is distressed, though it didn't all start out that way. Some of it has been with me for so long that it's coming back into fashion.

For the last year of my lease, I'm going to start paying people to use this moulding.
 
 
As long as AJ is making the living he wants then great for him. But on the flip side in order to win the prize money on a horse race you only have to be a nose better than the rest not a full lap. What kind of prices is AJ's competitors charging? Are they charging $2.53/ft for AJ's $2.49 or do they sell it for $6.00. If they sell it for the former then his prices are just right. If they sell it for the latter then his prices might need to be looked at. But what it all comes down to is if he makes enough money to suit his needs then why mess up a wonderful thing.
Don
 
A customer has 20 posters, 18 1/2 x 26, and wants them with glass and foamcore only.

AJ states: Excluding frames, 20 pcs of glass @ 7.98 ea. and 20 foamboards @ 5.32 ea total $266.00. My COST of the glass is $1.32 ea. My cost of the foamcore is about 65 cents ea. After subtracting my cost and....well, you figure it out. It would take less than a hour to complete the order

WOW, three minutes per poster. Not bad. It would take me that long just to cut the glass.
 
 
I firmly believe that we all have the right to sell our products for whatever price we chose. If we can make a go of it great. If not we only have ourselves to blame.

This being said, do you think you would loose a sale if you raised your molding prices say $1.00 per ft. I'd bet not, but you should know your market better than I.

BTW my cheapest mldg is $5.00 with at least a 10x mark-up.
 
The big question is how much is left at the end of the year. Don't use an accounting software it might scare you.
 
 
My cheapest moulding is OEM metal at $4.00', most expensive, over $300.00. I would never sell any moulding for less than $4.00', no matter what I paid for it. I charge minimums on everything. Anything less than 8x10 is the same price. It costs me $50.00 per hour to make expenses. Most jobs take at least an hour from scratch. Therefore, I have to charge at least $50.00 plus materials plus profit for even the smallest job. If it isn't profitable, I'd rather not do it. AJ cannot be considering the cost of doing business when he claims to make a $16.00 profit on a $20.00 frame. According my figures,the wholesale cost is $.50'. I don't think he has figured in shipping costs, unless he doesn't pay them for some reason. He only seems to be figuring on 8' of moulding, and hasn't allowed for waste, damage, or warpage of that moulding. Has anyone ever recieved 300'of perfect moulding and used all of it? I think if he timed himself, it would be more than 5 min to pull the moulding, inspect it, cut, glue, and pin it. I have, and it is more like 15-20 min on an easy one. If he bothered to factor in everything, even with a cost of doing business at a paltry $20.00 per hour, he is making at least $6.00 less than he thinks he is on this frame. Would you use a 1" on an 18x24" frame? I wouldn't, unless it's deep.
 
 
AJ, I am obviously at one end of the framing spectrum, that is selling quality mid-to-high-end framing. You, on the other hand choose to go the low-end route. I guarantee you, I work far less hard than you. It is so much easier, more fun, and much more profitable to sell one $250.00 job than five $50.00 jobs, which is probably your average sale. I have the pleasure of creating two full time jobs and three part time jobs for my employees. I take home a good salary, plus a healthy profit. I am able to re-invest in my business, which is why I continue to grow. Your profit probably is your salary. I think it is time you got out of your cellar, or garage, or wherever it is you work, and see how a real business operates. But thay won't happen. You seem to think you have all the answers.
 
WOW!!! I haven't been monitoring the
grumble for some time, but this is getting juicy! I love it! Lowest priced moulding? OEM metal...$3.60

jkol
 
Lowest piced frame is £2 a foot.I can oil gild you a fairly basic frame for £5 a foot.Toned and distressed to your spec.

I am cheap therefore I must be a rubbishy framer and doomed to bankruptcy pretty soon apparently.
 
WOW! (again) I was just skimming through some threads when I got to the one on Val Pak coupons. AJ, 33% coupons along with you prices???
I just have to say it again...WOW!

jkol
 
Create a Post
Back
Top