wedding mat??????

sheritex

CGF, Certified Grumble Framer
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Jul 23, 2003
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tyler, texas
OK...HERE'S ANOTHER QUESTION....GEE, IF YOU GUYS START CHARGING ME FOR ALL THE QUESTIONS i ASK, GONNA BE IN BBBIIIGGGG TROUBLE.
A customer of mine wants me to cut a mat for her that her wedding guests can sign....the mat will be about 16 x 20..cut out will be for a 8 x 10 pic...question....is it ok to use Bainbridge Alpa care or should i use rag???..the pen people are using...should be permanent????...and should I use spacers to keep the mat away from the glass??? and have i missed anything here?????
Thanks
Sherry
 
I did one of these last summer. We used an offwhite Crescent Select top mat with a lavendar crescent select(wedding colors chosen by bride and her mother) reveal with the photo of happy couple and we framed it without the glass.

After the reception (and all of the signatures were in place) they brought it back for uv clear glass with a spacer (to keep the assorted inks and a few pencils) from adhering to, or rubbing off on the glass.

I thought it looked a bit cheesy, but They were happy with it and that's what's important.
 
Sherry:
Unless this is a small wedding, the border size you describe does not provide a lot of territory for signing. For sign-in boards like this we usually recommend an 11x14 photo, with at east 4.5 to 5 inches of mat around it. (People like to write messages along with their names, often using the word "awesome").
Alphamat is fine for the board. As for the pen, I would recommend permanent, pigment-based pens which are fade-resistant and acid-free. These can easily be found anywhere they sell scrapbooking supplies. You could buy a few different brands and test them on your intended board. Then you would know what to confidently advise customers to buy.
:cool: Rick
 
A good pen to try - black zig Millennium .05 point. The pen has a clip and I would suggest having them tie a bow on the clip so guests know it's the pen to use. Avoid gel pens, regular pens and pencils. Zig has many other colors in their zig writer line but they are double pointed - they would have to tape off the point they don't want people to use. Haven't found a good gold or silver pen that fits the bill (archival, acid free and doesn't want to leak)
Guest number to size from what I have done - a 20x24 mat with a 11x14 opening is the correct size for your average wedding of 150 guests. Keep in mind this isn't for 150 signatures - some guests will sign as couples or families and some will not sign it at all.
 
Have done quite a few of these. (Must be a southern "thang" these days). But yes, the borders definitely need to be wider. Some people's hands sweat badly and can make the mat look really bad (dirty). A few pcs. of scrap paper for a hand to rest on as the mat is being signed, might be helpful.
 
I put these things in a frame, even if it's a temporary frame, to discourage folks from signing the outside 1/4" of the mat. Some brides will have an attendant standing by to make sure nobody gets too goofy or signs with a crayon. If you have a photo in the mat when it's being signed, put a piece of mylar over it (under the mat, of course) to protect it.

You can ask the bride (the groom won't know) how many guests they expect and get an idea how many square inches to allow for the mat. Couples who attend will usually only sign once.

Nope, Janet, it's not just a Southern Thang.
 
I also have done a few of these --- for promotion bulletins usually. I have found that black ultra fine point Sharpie markers work great. It has been mentioned above more than once and it is VERY important when doing these --- make sure the frame is on the item before the signatures are applied. I learned the hard way the first time. There is always someone that has to sign on the edge of the mat and then there is nothing you can do. Good Luck!
 
We must do at least a dozen a season, only we do a 30 x 30 mat, usually something off white with some type of black threads (I'm home mats are at work). Most photos are B/W but if the photo is color we still decide on a very soft mat. If the frame has not been chosen we tape the edges with removeable black tape so that signatures do not run off the edge. We usually mount the photo, place a very large mat (also depending on size of guest list) and give a box of Ultra fine sharpies with the order. A doz. pens allows for some to go missing. NO GEL pens allowed, guaranteed to smear. We have a sample display in the store, I have never had a complaint, we blacken the bevel if photo is B/W, everyone is happy and makes for a nice order.

Lynn
 
Not so much for weddings but for sports events these are common here (mind you to us sport is more important anyhow...).

For the rally series we have found that using a narrow mat (2 inch) is very "handy" as the sign'or can keep their hand off the mat easily. This suits when names are the only thing you want and it can then be used as the mat alone or as an "inlay" (assuming you kept the file/measurements).

I do agree with others here though, for a wedding you'll want a wee bit more space, perhaps you could have a paper mask cut out and held in place with 3M 811 tape that could be removed to reveal more space if need be???
 
We have done numerous of these autograph mats for weddings, birthdays, military units welcomed home etc. Most customers prefer to use a black and white photo with a white mat/black core. Our most popular size is 16x20 with an 8x10 photo. That leaves side borders at 4.25 and top/bottom at 5.25. All of the other tips are great, but as far as size, remember most of the messages are short. You would be surprised how many autographs you can get in this space. Also, this is probably not something the couple will leave hanging indefinitely--it is one of those trendy things for now.
 
I have done these mats for a theatrical group here. They do about 4-5 per show and give them to the show sponsors as a "THANK YOU"gift. We've done somewhere near about 5-6 shows thus far.
(I guess that adds to the Southern expeience thing ,especially since we do them for weddings and retirements as well as the theater group.LOL)
I agree with the comments of sending them with a frame (some a s S will sign the edge out of spite)and we have found that useing a Sharpie Permanent Marking pen on any very light colored acid free mat has worked just fine (So far).

But I found the Scrape Book pen idea very interesting ,especially since Bob Carter's comment about the benefits of PPFA/PMAI now adding in the "Scrap Book organization" as well.We have a lot to learn from outsourceing and learning NEW Methods from what may have seemed like unrelated groups.
BUDDY
 
Anybody really know about the Sharpies? I know they say "permanent" i.e. they don't wash out, but how light fast are they compared with the scrapbooking pens?

The advantage of the Sharpies would be that you can buy them by the box at Sam's Club, Office Depot, Staples, etc.

I'm sure Kit can help us with sources for the scrapbooking pens.
 
Ron’s pre-framing is a good idea. It is something I never considered – I just used to run Scotch 811 removable tape around the perimeter to discourage signing there.

I would suggest that the choice of mat have a smooth surface rather than textured. The signatures will look a whole lot better.

I always recommend that the bride place the mat on an easel to be signed. At the reception some clown will set a sweaty drink on the mat if it is laying on a table and smear everyone else’s script (but never his own).

Okay, now you owe each of us 35¢.
 
Instead of mylar over the photo, I like to frame the photo with the glass between the mat and the photo. Then when the wedding is over - have the couple bring the framing back to reposition the glass to the front to cover the mat.

Ron, I use a Sharpie to label the plant markers I use for my daylilies. For at least eight years, I have had several outside all year long exposed to sun, snow, and rain with very little fading.
 
I think your local scrapbook store can be informative on this if you would like to speak with them. Zig and a couple of other brands of "scrapbook" pens are made with India ink. Like the kind you would buy in a small jar and has a long life - examples of such would be very old documents written with pen & ink. Black is the most durable of the colors. I would avoid the Sharpies, they do not have all the qualities that these other pens have.
 
We have done scads of these, I, too, thought it was a midwest thingy!
"What they said" is my comment here. I will add that I will include a scrap of the actual mat board for folks to doodle on or test the feel of the pen.
I like these with big, fat mats, 6-7".
And I have never had to use spacers with these, but then again I hate spacers with mats. (pet peeve of mine)

edie the butiownmypetpeeves goddess
 
Originally posted by Jerry Ervin:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Ron Eggers:

I'm sure Kit can help us with sources for the scrapbooking pens.
Ron

You<font color = red>'</font>r<font color = red>e</font> playing with fire!
</font>[/QUOTE]At least Sisyphus got to push his boulder up the hill in peace. He didn't have friends and well-wishers poking at him with gel pens and strewing his path with dropped apostrophes and tacky photograph albums.

In my less charitable moments, I suspect youse guys are doing this on purpose.

Kit
 
"At least Sisyphus got to push his boulder up the hill in peace. He didn't have friends and well-wishers poking at him with gel pens and strewing his path with dropped apostrophes and tacky photograph albums.

In my less charitable moments, I suspect youse guys are doing this on purpose."

I don't understand a word you just said!
 
I have had signatures done with name brand Sharpies fade over time in a room with relatively low light. First they turn a dark purple color then fade until they are a pale lavendar. It can look good for a good many years, but will eventually fade if exposed to light.
Carbon will not fade and that is the pigment in China Black or India ink. It is also the color in pencil lead and the reason limited edition prints should be signed in pencil. Using a pen with permanent black pigment would seem the best way to go with this kind of keepsake since the pencil would trend to smear.
 
Wow!!!! Thanks so much for the wonderful input. I will convince her to go larger with the mat...I thought it sounded a little small myself and told her so....the scrapbooking pens are a great idea also...and I have bunches of the zig pens around..I like the idea of putting the frame on..makes sense......just didn't think about it. It seems that the spacer idea between the mat and the glass isn't necessary from what you guys said....ok......ya'll are the greatest!!!!! Who do I mail the 35 cents to???????? LOL.....Thanks guys.
Sherry
 
Funny, I have been telling folks to go out and buy gel pens for these sign-in boards - ever since gel pens were invented!!! I do stress that they purchase brands with reputable names, like Sanfors, etc. as opposed to "24 pens for $4.99!" from the dollar store.

I love gel pens! The pen color can be coordinated to the event color. And we did find out on a previous thread that it is IMPOSSIBLE to remove gel pen ink!!! So there!

I have never seen a gel pen smear on an absorbant surface (only on glossy photos!).

I would stay away from Sharpies.
 
This is what I have been told about gel pens and why I have stayed away from them - they are new and there is no way of exactly knowing how long they will stand the test of time. I personally like going with tried and true - less stress on me wondering if...
I will agree with you they are quite nice with so many colors and metalics to choose from.
 
Originally posted by Framar:

And we did find out on a previous thread that it is IMPOSSIBLE to remove gel pen ink!!! So there!

And, since that was my thread and my clothes, I can personally attest to that fact!! I am presently wearing a pair of Dockers that have these little gray tracks of gel ink on the legs!

I tried everything from hair spray to old tyme remedies, "miracle" stain removers to solvents that would lift the enamel off a kitchen stove, and nothing worked. I even tried to BLEACH the colored shirt to see if that would work, it was ruined anyway and I was running out of ideas.

(I now have a nearly white shirt with gel ink stains all over the front of it!)

The good news is it doesn't seem to run or smear at all once it is dry.

Framerguy
 
Tom ,not to be sadistic but other than on Clothing (especially YOURS) that could be an endorsement of the Durability of Gel-Pens.But how old where those pieces of clothing? Maybe the Gel will fade after time,if the clothing doesn't ware out first.LOL Do you think the same could be said about some MATS or for that matter some Marriages?LOL
BUDDY
 
Good point, Buddy. I don't know how far you and I have frankenthreaded this needle but I have no experience (yet) with gel ink on mats.

(Regarding marriages, mine faded after about 8 years......... too many UV rays???)

FGII
 
I think Buddy was making a valid point. Even if he wasn't, I'm happy to give him credit for it.

We all mistake "permanent" (which includes anything your kid leaves in his pockets when he throws his jeans in the wash with a load of whites) with "light fast."

The latter is a much more exclusive category.

If you keep a box or two of good pens on hand, and add them to the cost of the mat, the bride will be grateful. It's one less detail for her to worry about. Some will want traditional black and some will want an eclectic combination of colors. It should be her choice, but she should be advised that the black will hold up better.
 
I've done a few of these since opening in October. Mat is about 5'wide, usually with a photo of the wedding couple. I've had nice results mounting the photo with signed mat onto a reverse bevel cut foamboard then mounting that onto a colored matboard (black usually).... looks like the matted photo is floating... not sure what this is called. This works well since the mat is usually signed right to the edges, therefor leaving no room for the frame.
thumbsup.gif
 
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