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Lance E

Lance E

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
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Joined
Oct 31, 1999
Posts
3,869
Loc
Hamilton, New Zealand
Business
Imageland
While I'm stuk sitting on my butt it has been decided that I would be the perfect candidate for making a website for our business. Problem is I'm quite stuck on where to start and what to use for the best results, I have a background in software programming so figure I should be able to pick-up the necessary skills without too much trouble. Is there any publications that have been especially good for those of you that have made your own sites?
Thanks, Lance
 
I found netscape composer a good learning tool if you have it. Actually in the beginning someone helped me work with a cut and paste system and word document. Yahoo has some good helps. Do an HTML search and a lot will come up. Try neatnettricks.com and look at some of theirs. Your back ground may be a detriment because you know too much where dummies like me just do what someone else tells us.
 
Front Page. My son made ours with it, and now that he will be leaving for school in Colorado soon, my husband is taking over and seems to be catching on farily easily. Both reccomend it.
 
Ther are many software packages that you can use. I have tried Publisher 98, but its very limited.

Dreamweaver is very good but very expensive. You can get a time limited version.

I think Coffee Cup has a free version. Check out http://www.coffeecup.com/software/ or try www.cnet.com and go to: Downloads : PC : Web Authoring : HTML Editors : CoffeeCup Free HTML

I recently bought a new scanner and it came with Trellix, which I have found to be really easy to use. Trellix also have web based web site building, I think.

Try looking into www.cnet.com in web building. You will find lots of helpful stuff there in Authoring tips & how-tos.
 
I have used a number of different tools to make, remake and update our web site. They were all good and in the end i went back to the one I learned best. I cant recomend it 'cause it is no longer available.(jokes on me) If you are acustomed to Microsoft products Frontpage has everything and then some. If you are on a Mac and use Adobe alot perhaps GoLive would be best(but pricey) dont use this on a PC! HTML is easy < !> and worth understanding if so inspired. There are many bits of java script you can pick up online that help tweek appearance and navigation of the site. www.stealmyjavascript.com is one
I also find WSFTP is really handy for managing things and Adobe Photoshop 6 great for lowering image file size and organization but many other "image optimizers" are available
Have fun. It doesn't end.

trying to shake these traing wheels,
Michael
 
While I don't have the time these days, I used to read a lot on the subject of web design. I'd imagine that some of the links are still worth visiting (see hereunder). For what it's worth, I learnt HTML through notepad (pre-Mosaic), then Netscape Gold (remember that?), and then moved on to Dreamweaver 1 and 2. I still use the latter, and still think it's great (love the roundtrip HTML). Here's a couple of sites probably worth looking at:
Webmonkey @ http://hotwired.lycos.com/webmonkey/
Builder.com @ http://builder.cnet.com/
and here's some intretesting starting links: http://userdata.acd.net/accutype/htmlhelp.html
Cheers,
Mike Wilson

[This message has been edited by CAF (edited May 11, 2001).]
 
Thanks, there is some great advise here along with some very informative tips. I'm studying up on HTML and found that we have Imageready by Adobe at work, anyone have experience with this programme?
Frontpage is worthy of a look by the sound of it so I'll fish around on that a bit.


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"If at first you DO succeed, try not to look astonished!"
 
Lance, Frontpage is an excellent program. It is wysiwyg, very similar to word and writes all of the html code for you. You can then edit the html if you like. I had never written a character of html or done web work and was publishing changes to our site within hours.
 
Once you get a handle on HTML. Get a book on Perl. There no program to buy, you just write scripts that run on the server. The Grumple is written in Perl.

If you've done and old C programing you will pick it up fast. Once you get a handle on it it's easy.

framer
 
You can make that frame at home and save quite a bit! Lumber yards often sell moulding materials. You'll find a few books at the local library on how to cut mats as well. Dexter, Alto both make very good hand cutters that sell less that $20.00. Why is custom framing so expensive anyway? Hey, Martha Stewart can make shadow boxes, why can't I?

............................Or you can take your picture to a professional custom framer!

smile.gif

John

------------------

The Frame Workshop of Appleton, Inc.
www.theframeworkshop.com
Appleton, Wisconsin
jerserwi@aol.com
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In a trade so quick to point out our professionalism and the need to use our services for best results, we often look for the Do it yourself, least expensive avenue for so many of the the things we need. Instead of framers extolling the virtues of Pistorious, we laud Phaedra. The examples are limitless. Sometimes we sing a different tune than we preach. Well said, indeed, John.

I recognize everyone has some finacial limitations. Maybe the next time some client thinks you are too expensive because your standards don't take into consideration the needs of your client, think of this exact scenario. It doesn't make their needs paramount, but sometimes a little bending might make for a better understanding of their needs.

I'm not suggesting that anyone do anything injurious to someone's art. But maybe not understanding that maybe all that is needed is a metal frame, or that there is a place for paper mats might put you in the same position as the professional website developer sneering at the same attitudes here. Kind of like walking a mile in someone elses shoes

[This message has been edited by Bob Carter (edited May 13, 2001).]
 
John, your point is noted. Trust me when I say it has been considered, trouble is I'm not currently able to work my usual job for health reasons, I am considering working alongside someone dedicated to this field, at the moment research is benefical even if I decide not to do the site at least I can have a better understanding of what we are paying for. Kind of like educating a customer about C/P framing as oppossed to readymades.
 
Professional web designers will generally do a better job than you can do yourself!

After reading the 'Web Page, does it work for you?' topic and having talked about websites with a number of people I have come to the conclusion that in the framing industry, a website will not make much difference to the annual profit level.

Having put up my first website in 1995 and done all the 'right' stuff like submission to search engines etc. I sold four prints in five years and three of those were within a few weeks. For the past couple of years I have also had a mention on a suppliers website and have had not a single enquiry from that.

No customer has ever mentioned anything about framing websites let alone mine (its no longer available, but I will put one up again soon.)

Taking all this into consideration, I have turned down numerous proposals from professional web designers in the past six months to part with hundreds or even thousands of dollars for them to design me a website.
I just don't think it is worth spending that sort of money on and will persist with doing it myself until someone can show me that I can at least earn back the professional web designers fee with sales from the website.

My point is: that if websites were profitable for the majority of framers who have them, then I would use a professional web designer. As this seems not to be the case, I will continue to consider a website as a hobby and will do it myself.

I really hope lots of framers with websites are making good money from them and will reply and say so, because I would love to make some money from a website myself.


[This message has been edited by osgood (edited May 14, 2001).]
 
Originally posted by Bob Carter:
"...Instead of framers extolling the virtues of Pistorious, we laud Phaedra. The examples are limitless. Sometimes we sing a different tune than we preach...Maybe the next time some client thinks you are too expensive because your standards don't take into consideration the needs of your client, think of this exact scenario...."

Point taken, Bob. But for my purposes, the Phaedra SawHelper is the correct machine. Double miter saws are too big, too noisy , and too messy for my purpose. Money is not the issue -- I just don't need that tool.

My point is that choices should be based on an evaluation of what's best for the purpose vs. what's received for the money spent. That's consideration of value, not just price, and it applies equally to the frames our clients buy, and our choices of shop equipment...

...And, Lance, it also applies to setting up a web site. Having watched a professional build mine, I can say that knowing computers wouldn't have helped me a bit. There's graphic design expertise in the mix, as well as valuable, direct www experience.

Depending on how you value your time, the days (weeks?) you spend learning how -- with no assurance that you're doing it the best way -- might represent a poor value.

On the other hand, if that's the most value-laden way to spend your time, then go for it.
Click to expand...
 
A point of interest, I have called several Website developers over the last few days, not a single one of them gave me a feeling that they gave a damn about whether our site would work, they wanted money and instilled no confidence in me whatsoever. These included some really big firms, and some homebased operators. At work we have two qualified Graphic Designers, neither have hugh amounts of time available however they have been making graphics in spare time for about a year now.
At this stage we do not intend to have anything other than an informative site.
Lance
 
Jim-Please take no offense to my post regarding your choices on equipment (or anything else). We all make decisions daily, and I'll promise you I don't always buy top of the line. Often, I do, but not always. Regarding Phaedra, it has many supporters; obviously, it provides an important use.

But to re-empahsize my point in case it gets lost: Way too often our brethren will refuse to offer to their client products well established as satisfactory because of our own perception of what a professioinal should or should not offer. Yet, we often (all of us) look for the least expensive option to our needs. Isn't that exactly what a client may be needing with a paper mat (as an example)?

But, I'll bet that if Pistorius offered a Dbl Mitre saw in the Phaedra price range, you would see a stampede of converts. Often, it does come down to money (we're all guilty of it). I just hope we don't lose a sale because we won't offer something to our clients because of our own devices.

Sometimes the same standards we demand on our clients are not the same as we expect of ourselves. I'm afraid some of this type of logic might be short sighted. I'll bet the Pistorius salesperson would agree with me. But then, not everybody needs that level of quality. Just a casual observation, adding to John Ranes excellent post.



[This message has been edited by Bob Carter (edited May 14, 2001).]
 
My Pistorius won't cut anything wider than about 4 1/4" and higher than 3". When the time comes, I am thinking of replacing my Rockwell chopsaw with a Phaedra setup. In the meantime I have a website to build. We apparently have differant goals and values. I hope to use Frontpage when Microsoft's deal with Qwest goes thru. I can only hope that everyone is as happy with thier life as I am with mine.
 
Originally posted by Bob Carter:
"Jim-Please take no offense to my post..."

None taken. We agree; I just wanted to clarify.

"...Way too often our brethren will refuse to offer to their client products well established as satisfactory because of our own perception of what a professioinal should or should not offer. Yet, we often (all of us) look for the least expensive option to our needs..."

Your point -- which is a good one -- wasn't lost. Yes, we should practice what we preach.

I preach "VALUE". In any given situation, the best value may be represented by the cheapest, or maybe by the most expensive, or maybe somewhere in between. Ultimately, it should be the product/service that best suits the intended purpose. *After* identifying the parameters of need, we should budget accordingly.

As I understand your point, our own failure to seek value instead of price is the double-standard: We become experts at helping our customers define their needs. But when it comes time to define our own needs, we cop out and buy cheap. Like customers of the Big Box Framers, we go blindly where the marketers point us.

I think we're on the same wavelength here, aren't we?
Click to expand...
 
Jim-As usual, we agree on much, much more than not.My hope was to get a broader understanding of the shifting paradigms we call buying and selling. We're all guilty of duplicity and maybe a little speaking out of both sides of our mouth. You are right on the button when stating we need to find value; for both our client as well as ourselves. You just say it much nicer than I.
As usual, the best answer is somewhere in the middle.
 
I am currently researching the framing industry, specifically the internet niche. I think the best way to get moving on your website is to see what is out there. That way you can see for yourself what works and what doesn't. The best website out there that sells frames over the net is Graphik Dimensions, LTD at pictureframes.com. They take the fear out of internet buying by showing you every aspect of the product you are buying. They also show you how to order online.
Their site pops up the most on search engines and here's why: 1) They use keywords like picture frames, prints, etc. continually through out their site. Search engines are more frequently looking at the text on a web page and not the keywords. 2) They don't have their website set up with frames. This allows the search engines to see the text in the web page.
Also if you are going to have a web page, please let people order off of it. I know that the colors may not be true to life, but if someone is willing to buy over the internet, let them! Nothing is more frusterating than wasting your time on a site to find that they want you to come to their store across the country, or in your case on the other side of the world!
Hope I gave you some advice you could use!
Now here is what I am wondering, does anyone have any articles or information on how many framing companies are selling as opposed to just advertising their store on the net? <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lance E:
While I'm stuk sitting on my butt it has been decided that I would be the perfect candidate for making a website for our business. Problem is I'm quite stuck on where to start and what to use for the best results, I have a background in software programming so figure I should be able to pick-up the necessary skills without too much trouble. Is there any publications that have been especially good for those of you that have made your own sites?
Thanks, Lance<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
 
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bob Carter:
Yet, we often (all of us) look for the least expensive option to our needs. Isn't that exactly what a client may be needing with a paper mat (as an example)?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Thats pretty much it in a nutshell, and if theres no-one (webdesigner) willing to educate their customer (me) of the differences am I supposed to just take the "paper mat"?
 
Building a site for your framing business is crucial in todays global marketplace. However, how you promote your site is just as important. Driving traffic to your website can be done in many ways, for example, offering incentives such as special discounts for those who respond to you off of your site. In addition to promotions, listing your site in strategic areas such as framing magazines, local newspapers and internet portals catered to the art and framing industry will greatly enhance your visibility in the digital world. Hope that helps! Best of Luck!
 
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